What is my 1884 M25 worth?

[jjsbiggs]

I'm thinking of selling my 1984 M25 but need some input on what you folks think it may be worth. I bought it two years ago after it had been sitting for 15 years and was in need of a total restoration. I have done a ton of work to bring it back to life and really have enjoyed sailing it for the last two years. Here is a copy of the ad I was posting to craigslist. Please let me know what you think I should be asking.
Like any boat there are always things that you can do to make it better or more useful for the way you plan to use it. There are some normal scratches and chips in the gel coat for a boat this age which I refilled with gel coat but no damage to the fiberglass. I didn't spend a lot of time repairing them as summer came and it was time to get it out on the water. I also need to install a connector in the top of the cabin for the used VHF radio I installed.
A couple of things I also did that I did not list in the ad was remove all the foam and clean and painted them to seal them and reinstalled.


1984 Macgregor M25 sailboat. Boat is in very good condition and is ready for a late season sail. The main and jib sails are in very good condition with no tears or damage with a sunbrella main cover. The keel is a retractable cast iron keel which I sandblasted to bear metal and refinished with Interlux primer, four coats of Watertite filler to fair to proper shape and then four coats of marine epoxy. Installed a new keel winch and cable and replaced pivot and lock bolts and all hardware. Trailer was stripped and treated with PRO15 and then top coated and new bunks and trailer winch installed. All new wheel bearings, glavanized wheels, new tires and bearings buddies installed.
I also removed all the deck hardware and resealed and reinstalled with stainless steel backing plates. New swim ladder and LED anchor and cabin lights installed with both red and white bulbs. Has a brand new never used freshly serviced Sanipottie 962 installed in the enclosed head. Sleeps five in the cabin and all the cushions are in excellent condition with no tears or stains. Has a pop-top cabin with a like new condition canvas with windows to enclose to give you standup cabin room.
This boat is very easy to trailer and setup and with the keel retracted only needs 18" of draft so can go in close to shore or in a small cove where other sailboats could never go. I made a mast raising system that makes it easy for one person to raise and rig the mast.
It has a 1985 9.9 hp Yamaha four stroke which is in excellent condition and runs perfect. It has all new fuel lines on the engine and tank with a new 3.5 gallon fuel tank.

Comes with the following equipment:
2 ea dock lines (new last year)
All required Coast Guard required equipment.
4 ea new lifevests in case.
1 ea boat hook
5 ea fenders.
VHF radio with antenna.
Removable cabin sink.
Bow pulpit and life lines
Wind indicator.
New main halyard this year
Stainless mast organizer.
Anchor, chain and line.
Swim ladder.

If you search for jjsbiggs on this site there are lots of posts of the work as I was doing it. You guys were a great help while I was restoring it and I really can't thank you enough for all the advice.

 

[Erik V]

I purchased an 87 M25 3 years ago for $4500. It needed new trailer tires and was ready to sail, like yours it had been stored for 12 years. So far I have done a lot to her and would not let it go for less than $5500.

 

[finding41]

Umm. It's not M25. It's a MacGregor 25 or a Mac 25. M is what the new boat is. M=motor.
I would mention that it is a fractional rig.
I purchased my 26D for $3400 last Nov. It had everything but it needed Molly Maid and her sisters to clean it!

 

[centerline]

you can find exceptional deals on about any type or kind of boat you want if you look long enough. you can also very easily pay too much if you dont look long enough. sometimes good deals seem like they are handed to us on a silver platter.....and sometimes buyers remorse sets in rather quickly....
but as to a reasonable value for your boat,... how is the deck coreing, any rot or soft spots on any deck sections? how is the gelcoat? inside as well as outside...... is the rubrail trim tight and clean?..... how is it rigged, do you still have the horn cleats throughout for your control lines or have they been upgraded to cams? is it still basic controls or do you have any reefing system, preventor or boom brake, vang, topping lift? these are all things to consider when selling or purchasing. if its in top condition you should consider asking around 5500. you can always come down..... if its still original and basic, you are probably in the 3000-4000 range. if you ask more than that, most people will turn towards 26, which is almost the same price range.
so in comparison, you can find some pretty clean 26ft macs for under 6,000. they are newer boats and some are fairly clean.... but the 25's are good strong boats with a weighted keel. some people like myself prefer this. also the big plus with the 25 is the depth of the cockpit footwell. its more comfortable and easier to set in for any length of time. the shallow footwell in the 26 is the same depth as my 21 was and it was a killer on my back.....
the mac 25 may be an older boat, but its comfortable, it sails well and is easily trailered so its still a contender in this size and price range.

 

[jjsbiggs]

Everything is standard.

It still has the horn cleats and rolling reefing. Only thing added was a topping lift. I installed a stainless mast organizer when I resealed the deck hardware so I can run the lines to the cockpit in the future. I also bought a main halyard long enough to run to the cockpit when I replaced it this year. The deck has no soft spots and the gelcoat cleans up with a nice shine when I polished it last year. There are a few nicks and chips in the gelcoat in the cabin but still looks nice. The ceiling in the cabin could use a coat of paint which I have but have not had time to do yet. Rub rail is in good shape without any damage. The boat is always dry in or out of the water so I don't think there are any leaks other than one very small one on one screw on the rub rail when it rains long and hard but never enough to get anything wet.

 

[MacNCheese]

Umm. It's not M25. It's a MacGregor 25 or a Mac 25. M is what the new boat is. M=motor.
I would mention that it is a fractional rig.
I purchased my 26D for $3400 last Nov. It had everything but it needed Molly Maid and her sisters to clean it!

I want you to get everything you can for your boat but I have to agree with Finding41 that $5,000 is overpriced.

I've followed prices on these closely on Crsigslist and:
Good condition Mac 25 = $2,500
Good condition Mac 26C = $5,000

But be grateful you're not in New England where there are always a few Mac 25's on Craigslist for $500 each. Check your local Craigslist for average prices.

 

[rgranger]

There is a guy about an hour from my house selling his for $1000 but it has no trailer, the O.B. is ancient and the boat is filthy. It has potential though. A good pressure wash ....?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

this time of year will hurt your sale price (IMO). I think centerline outlined the prices accurately. how are the sails? (look fresh in the pic). how is the centerboard pivot hole/bushing? overall, I think you have an original basic boat in good condition. my .02 says $3500 now, 4500 in may. GL!

 

[abk]

I also have a 1984 Mac 25... After 5 years I just have it where I want it. I installed a Furler, put in an A/C unit, got a new outboard, single hand mast raising system, flat screen TV, replaced running rigging, bilge pump, battery charger, recovered the interior cushions, and more.

It has wheel steering, topping lift, shore power, the pop top canvass in great shape and it looks like I am the only one who used it. It looks new and is in great shape too. The problem for me is I now want a bigger boat and it looks like I will have to start over... I just haven't figured out how to make it bigger.

Most of the pricing I see above seems right. I did buy it from Craigs List too. I forgot what I paid but it was probably 3k.

I am also spoiled as I want a water ballasted centerboard or swing keel boat that I can trailer. Or a shoal keel at the very least. There is a lot to said about a 22" draft.

If the Sailboat only had more room...

 

[finding41]

I think the 26D&S has a 18" draft with everything up. I don't know how you would steer it though.

 

[jjsbiggs]

Sails are in good shape.

The sails are still in nice shape as they were in storage for 15 years and not used. No real stains and no tears. The M25 on the main is starting to pull free and needs to be secured to the sail in a few spots but still looks good.
The keel pivot hole has no wear and the lock hole was also in perfect shape most likely because it was not used for 15 years. But the paint was all peeling and it needed to be completely stripped and repainted to make it right. I have an offer of $4000 which I think I'm going to take instead of waiting until spring to see if I could get more. I think that is a fair price considering all the hard work has been done but as you all know there is always something more you would like to do to make it better. Thanks again for all the input and advice. You are all a great bunch folks.

 

[Eaglekeeper]

I just purchased a 1984 M25 in Tucson, AZ For $3,500. It came with everything you have. Got a main, storm jib, regular jib and 110 genoa. 8hp Nissan, IDA rudder and laminated tiller etc. Trailer and tires in good condition. Bottom needs paint. Some gel coat repairs required. Lots of oxidation. I'll probably spend about $1,500 on new hardware, rigging, clean up and building a mast raiser system. I'll be back on here asking lots of questions from the folks that have more experience with these boats. Thanks to all for many hours of Macgregor education. I appreciate it!

 

[MacNCheese]

..... is the rubrail trim tight and clean?.....

Only curious why it's important for the rubrail to be clean? The P.O. covered over the rubrail with a thin coating of fiberglass sealer stuff on the Port side. So when it came time to paint, I continued in his footsteps and painted over the (then green) rubrail. Seems to still work as a rubrail even though it's white.

Why wouldn't it work just as good painted?
Below: original Green rubrail and now white:

 

[centerline]

There is way more to the value of a boat than what you see a like model advertised for elsewhere.... most boats are definitly overpriced. even the seemingly cheap ones. they are overpriced because the owner hasnt taken care of them at all, yet they are trying to sell the boat for what it once was, or trying to sell the potential for what it could be. the boat only has value for what it is, in its present condition, not what it could be. it takes more money and effort to develop the potential of it, which sometimes does not even add to the value of it once completed.
There are also people who dont know and dont care what the boat is worth, they just want it to disappear. they sell a nice boat very cheap.
And... there are the folks who know how to take care of their boat. they have it looking good and have it rigged properly with modern equipment and it has probably already realized its full potential as a nice boat but they are looking to sell it fairly, for one reason or another. a nice boat will usually be at the upper end of the price range.
Some people dont know the difference between a "good, sound" boat and a "POS" that resembles a boat that should more properly be used for land fill than trying to revive as something that will safely and dependably float on water..... but they are happy folks cuz they got a good deal on it for only 500 dollars..... and after another $5000-8000 and hundreds of hours of labor they may resurrect the POS into something they could have bought "turn-key" for $4000-5000 to begin with. a boat has a way of "eating" money and nothing much to show for it.
The actual cash value of any individual boat depends largely on the buyers point of view, and not so much the sellers point of view....

 

[MacNCheese]

..... but they are happy folks cuz they got a good deal on it for only 500 dollars..... and after another $5000-8000 and hundreds of hours of labor they may resurrect the POS into something they could have bought "turn-key" for $4000-5000 to begin with. a boat has a way of "eating" money and nothing much to show for it....

Great point!

 

[centerline]

I'm one of those happy folks, even though you seem to look down on us. There's no other way I could have owned a boat because I live paycheck to paycheck and I'm never going to have $5,000 all at once to spend on a boat.

I'd rather spend money slowly over time to turn a POS (as you call it) into a nice boat because that's the only way it will ever happen for me (even if it adds up to the same $5,000). As a Social Worker for those with mental disabilities, my time is worth little so I have a lot more time than money to fix up my POS (and I really enjoy working on the boat and have learned a ton).

So I'm happy for you in your beautiful boat, but some of us will never have the money you have so we must find another way.

I apologize if it sounds like im "Looking down" on someone for doing what they think is best and within their abilities. I have no intention of that.... ever.
but I WAS making a point. there are some who seem to feel that a nicer, better maintained boat has very little higher value than they paid for their boat, even though the boat has been well taken care of and is turnkey....

and with every respect to you and all that follow your reply, I have no idea what your boat looks like or what you paid for it, and regardless, I would hope you would have a love affair with your boat as I do with mine, and not think of it as a POS just because some smartass makes a controversial comment about a 500 dollar boat.
the boat is exactly what its owner makes it.... and people who love their boats know their boat is more valuable to them than they could ever sell it for. but maintaining it properly will minimize their loss if they should ever decide to sell it....

 

[MacNCheese]

I have no intention of that.... ever.
but I WAS making a point. there are some who seem to feel that a nicer, better maintained boat has very little higher value than they paid for their boat....

Oh I see. Sorry that I misunderstood. It's easy to mis-interpret the written word

 

[centerline]

Only curious why it's important for the rubrail to be clean? The P.O. covered over the rubrail with a thin coating of fiberglass sealer stuff on the Port side. So when it came time to paint, I continued in his footsteps and painted over the (then green) rubrail. Seems to still work as a rubrail even though it's white.

Why wouldn't it work just as good painted?
Below: original Green rubrail and now white:

Clean... as in, not beat up and damaged.
it will work no matter what color it is, but the topic is about the "overall maximum" value of a boat.... aesthetics are a big part of this. deck joint trim (rub rail) that has NOT been bent, scarred and scuffed from crashing into something or being tied to a piling, or otherwise beat up is more pleasing to look at. and they are expensive to replace.... sometimes they become loose on the boat and will let water in and, in most cases, a wet boat is not as valuable as a dry boat.....

I have seen some boats that the deck joint trim was beat up and damaged on every point, but any "rub rail" that is still attached may still act as a bumper if that is what a person thinks the purpose of it is..... its actual designed purpose is just as a trim strip over the deck joint. there are a few different styles, but ours is is the most common style which is aluminum trim with a rubber insert to cover the screw heads and help keep the water out. an incidental feature of it is, that it can help protect things if that part of the boat should lightly come in contact with another object....
its the "deck joint trim", also called the rub rail.... but its not a bumper rail.

as to your boat and the fiberglassed over rub rail.... whatever reason the PO had for doing that, I know there will be be a better and just as affordable method for whatever he was trying to accomplish if you ever decide to fix it. probably trying to seal out the water.....

 

[timebandit]

Mine is perfect(except for the windows) and priceless.

Who can put a price on the years of memories and fun?

We have gotten way more out of her then we ever put into her.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

^ that's the thing. they don't make them like that any more.
and if they did it would be triple the price....

condition is everything on a 20+ year old boat.