Peggie, A couple of my powerboat friends have vacuum-type heads made by Sea-Land Technology. I became intrigued by them for primarily three reasons. First they use about 1 pint of fresh water to flush each time instead of 3-4 quarts of seawater (ie., pumpouts every 4-6 weeks vs every weekend), since fresh vs seawater is used, there is no rotten smell from the seawater after a week of standing in the hoses, and they are much easier to use by guests and the guests won't pump 3 gallons per flush. However, I have never seen a sailboat with a vacuum flush system. Is there a good reason for this? Are there any conserns or down-sides that I should be aware of if I choose to change out my two standard PAR heads for a couple of vacuum units? TIA, Rich
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
VacuFlush is a very good toilet..
I have one on my own boat. When I installed it, it was the best toilet on the market. However, there have been improvements in macerating electric toilets that have resulted in much better toilets that can also use fresh water--and very little of it--and fewer amp hours for considerably less money. The VacuFlush doesn't macerate...waste is sucked through the system by accumulated vacuum when that vacuum is released. That splatters waste in various size pieces all over the inside of the hoses and vacuum accumulator tank. The highly touted one pint of water isn't enough to rinse it out, and the flush water flow is so weak that flushing longer doesn't accomplish much either. So unless you fill the bowl completely a couple of times and flush that through at least once a day, you'll not only have permeated hoses in a very short time (only took two months on my boat), but if you're lucky enough to avoid that, urine crystal buildup in the hoses that can reduce the diameter to less than an inch in a year or two. There are several macerating electric toilets which offer a fresh water solenoid option and use as little a quart per flush...or even a "dry bowl" flush, something the V/Flush cannot do. Macerated waste is liquid, and the water flow behind the bowl contents completely rinses the hose. All the parts of macerating electric toilets are contained in the bowl assembly. VacuFlush toilets require finding space elsewhere in the boat for the vaccuum accumulator tank and vacuum pump or the combination "vacuum generator" and none of 'em are small. As for the low current draw, it's important to understand the distinction between amperage *draw* and amp hours *consumed." The V/Flush DRAWS only 5-6 amps...but the pump runs for about 45 seconds after each flush, and if the system develops an air leak, can come on between flushes and even run continuously till somebody notices it. Macerating toilets equipped with fresh water solenoids *draw* 10-15 amps--2-3 times that of the V/Flush, but only run for 10-15 seconds during each flush, resulting in half the power *consumption* of the V/Flush. And they don't magically turn themselves on for no reason. V/Flush toilets are only available from "Authorized VacuFlush Service Centers" for their full list price of about $1100, and unless installed by "authorized" dealers (average cost: another $1,000-$1500), your warranty is void. Although macerating electric toilets have list prices of anywhere from $700-1100, every one of them is available through discount marine retailers for an average of 30% less, and you can install any of 'em yourself without voiding your warranty. I certainly wouldn't pull the VacuFlush off my boat...it has all the advantages you describe...it's a no-brainer for landlubber guests and children to use, and yes, they're suitable for use on sailboats. But so do macerating electric toilets equipped with the fresh water solenoid option...and even a 5 year old can touch a touch pad to activate a timed flush for a macerating toilet. So I wouldn't spend the extra money for VacuFlush when you can have everything they offer and more for 2/3 the price.
I have one on my own boat. When I installed it, it was the best toilet on the market. However, there have been improvements in macerating electric toilets that have resulted in much better toilets that can also use fresh water--and very little of it--and fewer amp hours for considerably less money. The VacuFlush doesn't macerate...waste is sucked through the system by accumulated vacuum when that vacuum is released. That splatters waste in various size pieces all over the inside of the hoses and vacuum accumulator tank. The highly touted one pint of water isn't enough to rinse it out, and the flush water flow is so weak that flushing longer doesn't accomplish much either. So unless you fill the bowl completely a couple of times and flush that through at least once a day, you'll not only have permeated hoses in a very short time (only took two months on my boat), but if you're lucky enough to avoid that, urine crystal buildup in the hoses that can reduce the diameter to less than an inch in a year or two. There are several macerating electric toilets which offer a fresh water solenoid option and use as little a quart per flush...or even a "dry bowl" flush, something the V/Flush cannot do. Macerated waste is liquid, and the water flow behind the bowl contents completely rinses the hose. All the parts of macerating electric toilets are contained in the bowl assembly. VacuFlush toilets require finding space elsewhere in the boat for the vaccuum accumulator tank and vacuum pump or the combination "vacuum generator" and none of 'em are small. As for the low current draw, it's important to understand the distinction between amperage *draw* and amp hours *consumed." The V/Flush DRAWS only 5-6 amps...but the pump runs for about 45 seconds after each flush, and if the system develops an air leak, can come on between flushes and even run continuously till somebody notices it. Macerating toilets equipped with fresh water solenoids *draw* 10-15 amps--2-3 times that of the V/Flush, but only run for 10-15 seconds during each flush, resulting in half the power *consumption* of the V/Flush. And they don't magically turn themselves on for no reason. V/Flush toilets are only available from "Authorized VacuFlush Service Centers" for their full list price of about $1100, and unless installed by "authorized" dealers (average cost: another $1,000-$1500), your warranty is void. Although macerating electric toilets have list prices of anywhere from $700-1100, every one of them is available through discount marine retailers for an average of 30% less, and you can install any of 'em yourself without voiding your warranty. I certainly wouldn't pull the VacuFlush off my boat...it has all the advantages you describe...it's a no-brainer for landlubber guests and children to use, and yes, they're suitable for use on sailboats. But so do macerating electric toilets equipped with the fresh water solenoid option...and even a 5 year old can touch a touch pad to activate a timed flush for a macerating toilet. So I wouldn't spend the extra money for VacuFlush when you can have everything they offer and more for 2/3 the price.
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Rich Stidger
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bob
thanks, peggy.. one further question...
what brand of macerating elcetric head would you recommend?
what brand of macerating elcetric head would you recommend?
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
IMHO two best on the market are..
the Raritan Atlantes--but with a 19" bowl front to back, it's two big to fit in some heads...and the Raritan Crown II, which is available in two bowl sizes. The Atlantes is a full household size "throne" with a one-piece molded china bowl and pedestal. The "throat" (discharge opening in the bowl to the macerator) is 2" diameter, making it almost impossible to clog unless something goes down it that the no macerator could handle. The Crown II is a much-improved version of the original Crown Head, offering both a remote seawater pump and/or a fresh water solenoid as well as an integral intake pump, making it much quieter. The bowl is china...a shroud gives the base "household" styling. ONLY with the fresh water solenoid option do you get low AH consumption and low water consumption with either of these toilets. Intake water pumps are power hogs...and since they're impeller pumps, can't run dry, so they need a lot of water to clear the hoses. But that's true of all macerating electric toilets. I freely admit to a bias in favor of Raritan products. We were distributors for every major mfr of sanitation equipment except Par/Jabsco for more than 10 years...enough time to know which products offer the least (and the most) trouble, which are the most durable, most reasonably priced, and how the various mfrs treat people--not only their own dealers and distributors, but the end users. Raritan wins on all counts. Btw...their website is at http://www.raritaneng.com
the Raritan Atlantes--but with a 19" bowl front to back, it's two big to fit in some heads...and the Raritan Crown II, which is available in two bowl sizes. The Atlantes is a full household size "throne" with a one-piece molded china bowl and pedestal. The "throat" (discharge opening in the bowl to the macerator) is 2" diameter, making it almost impossible to clog unless something goes down it that the no macerator could handle. The Crown II is a much-improved version of the original Crown Head, offering both a remote seawater pump and/or a fresh water solenoid as well as an integral intake pump, making it much quieter. The bowl is china...a shroud gives the base "household" styling. ONLY with the fresh water solenoid option do you get low AH consumption and low water consumption with either of these toilets. Intake water pumps are power hogs...and since they're impeller pumps, can't run dry, so they need a lot of water to clear the hoses. But that's true of all macerating electric toilets. I freely admit to a bias in favor of Raritan products. We were distributors for every major mfr of sanitation equipment except Par/Jabsco for more than 10 years...enough time to know which products offer the least (and the most) trouble, which are the most durable, most reasonably priced, and how the various mfrs treat people--not only their own dealers and distributors, but the end users. Raritan wins on all counts. Btw...their website is at http://www.raritaneng.com
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Dave Dahlstrom
VacuFlush on a sailboat
I recently installed a VacuFlush unit in my Vision 36. I mounted the vacuum generator in the swim step lazerette (replacing the Y valve), ran all new hose, and hooked up fresh water. I think it uses over 6 ounces of water per flush but thats a fair trade for getting rid of head odor. It's not exactly a simple install but for now at least, it's well worth the expense.
I recently installed a VacuFlush unit in my Vision 36. I mounted the vacuum generator in the swim step lazerette (replacing the Y valve), ran all new hose, and hooked up fresh water. I think it uses over 6 ounces of water per flush but thats a fair trade for getting rid of head odor. It's not exactly a simple install but for now at least, it's well worth the expense.
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larry templeton
Which of the macerating toilets do you like?
We want to put electric toilets on out hunter 450 but have been put off by our previous experience with a Jabsco conversion which was very noisy and used quite a bit of water. Which of the current crop of electrics do you recommend?
We want to put electric toilets on out hunter 450 but have been put off by our previous experience with a Jabsco conversion which was very noisy and used quite a bit of water. Which of the current crop of electrics do you recommend?
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
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