What do I need for cruising in the Great Lakes?

[Wayne Steinhour]

I am currently looking for a trailerable criuser, intending to do mainly weekend (up to a week) jaunts in the Great Lakes. One boat I am looking at is a Sirius 22. This boat is lighter than some that we have looked at (such as O'Day 23), but looks easily launchable from the trailer and seems fairly well laid out inside. I expect to be in protected waters or at least not far off shore most of the time. Should I be worried about how much displacement a boat has? I know that the Sirius claims to have enough flotation to be unsinkable. Is that important? Up to now, I have been sailing an old O'Day Javelin on small lakes. I want to be sure that I can keep my family safe on bigger water. I appreciate any input from more experienced folks.

Thanks.

Wayne

 

[Ed Schenck]

Interesting question, a light trailerable that is still family safe on the Great Lakes? I suppose just about anything so long as you watch the weather and are always close to safe harbor. But you mentioned maybe a weekend or a week. I am sure you know how the weather changes on the lakes. Friends recently went to Canada from Sandusky Bay on their 30-footer . They had to stay an extra two days because of high north winds. The nicest small boat I have ever been in is the Hunter 22. An amazing interior for a small trailerable and very seaworthy.

 

[Paul356]

It's all about picking your weather and location. My wife and I sailed a fixed-keel Santana 22 across the lake a lot, because we didn't know any better and it was the biggest boat we'd ever been on. Last summer we sailed our 36 footer in 36-foot waves (ok, 5-footers, really, but they seemed pretty big) over on your shore and the boat handled it but it wasn't that comfortable, and I was glad the trip only took a few hours. The point is that bad weather can be too much for big boats, but small boats can handle a big lake, too. Sirius looks like a solid boat, and you'd have no problem sailing the Michigan shore or places like Traverse Bay or the west end of Lake Erie with it -- as long as you had decent weather. The lake is changeable and changes quickly, and the fresh water waves are steeper than the salty kind, but you could have an awful lot of good sailing on our old friend Lake Mich with a boat like that. You also have all the inland lakes over there with Lake Michigan connections, so that gives you a lot of options.

 

[Wayne Steinhour]

I appreciate your comments on being aware of the weather and always checking the forecasts. I was wondering whether anyone has anything to say about the relative merits of a lightweight cruiser like the Sirius 22 (2100# displacement) with positive floatation vs. a heavier boat like the O'Day 23 (3400# displacement). I (and my wife, especially) like the sound of an "unsinkable" boat, but would a heavier boat be safer because it could handle rough conditions better?

 

[kenn]

How many are in your family? That of course will be a factor.

My wife and I have a 19' foot trailerable boat, and we normally sail her on Lake Ontario, but we've also towed her and sailed on Lake Erie, Georgian Bay, Ottawa River, and a few of the larger cottage lakes. Trailer-sailing is the BEST for exploring and trying new areas!

Normally, my wife and I try to avoid rough days. On some 'guy' sails with my sailing buddies, however, we've tackled rougher conditions - eg rain, 24 kt winds, waves, when we sailed from Pelee Island to Put-in Bay (Lake Erie) last year. We had fun, though...

Most decent boats can take more pounding than their occupants can, so your main limiting factor will be how much you and your family are willing to take on.

If you and your family can wait for fair weather, then just about any good boat would do; if you want the ultimate in stability, then maybe a trailerable isn't the thing.

I've heard good things about the Sirius 21 and 22 boats, and here and in Ask All Sailors, they discuss several boat options in the 20 to 26 ft range. There's lots of choice. If possible, arrange to try several kinds to get a feel for the amenities and performances of different boats.

 

[JerryA]

A good boat and good weather

You need a good boat and good weather, regardless of size. I'm pretty happy with my Precision 23 on Lake Erie. I do a pretty good mix of day sailing and weekend cruising to different ports in the proximity of Sandusky. This past weekend I sailed to Vermilion, overnighted in Huron Saturday and then back to Sandusky Sunday by myself. There were times when I was surfing with the waves (8.6knts, reefed main) and other times when I was motoring, but I was comfortable because my boat will work in those conditions. I like to think that my little boat on Lake Erie is no different than a 40 footer in the ocean. Both situations require respect and a good weather window. I always tell myself that a 32 footer would be better on Lake Erie, but if I had one I'm sure I would think something bigger would be better. The most important thing for me is to get out and sail as often as I can.

JerryA

 

[Slade]

I used to have a Starwind 19. I did some modifications to the hull to deck joint putting stainless through bolts with backing on 3 inch centers around the chainplates and 7 inch centers between. The original construction was glue and staples. Maybe my imagination but the boat seemed stiffer.

After that I did 6 multi week cruises through the Keys (Atlantic side), and some on Lake Michigan. I was 10 miles plus offshore alot...did alot of diving..and the boat handled it all very well. Tried to sail upwind on a very rough day (8-10ft seas, steady 20-30kt winds) with a reefed main and storm jib. Boat did very well with lots of spray but I decided to turn around and run back to Duck Key. Boat surfed very well. Forecast was for the same conditions for the next week. So docked, took a bus to pick up my truck and trailer in Key Largo and made my way home to Indiana. Nice to have the options.
Make sure the boat is in good shape and make good choices and you should be good to go.

 

[Captain 9330]

Wayne,
I have friends who have owned a Sirius 22 for years and have nothing but good to say about it.

Lighter weight means you can take more stuff with you when considering GVWR for your tow vehicle. It might mean you can take a canoe/kayak/dinghy with you as well which most trailer sailors prefer to do if they plan to be out for more than a day or two.

I worried about flotation early on but that concern has really left my conscience. I asked Frank Butler in a letter about 20 years ago about the absence of flotation in the Catalina 22 and his reply was that it didn't make sense for weight and space consumed and suggested if it was a concern to carry an inflatable raft- but he was confident in the strength of the design and prudence of owners to keep their yachts out of trouble. As I said, I have not had that concern in at least the past 20 years (had the boat now for 26 years).

Best wishes for your boat selection and future sailing adventures!
Derek

 

[Captain 9330]

Wayne,

Reading back over your question, you were asking more than just about the particular boat you were looking at.

You will be interested in ground tackle, at least one good anchor with 100-150 feet of rode. Danforth anchors work well in the Great Lakes and tend to be more economical than plow designs. I carry 3 anchors, 2 Danforths and 1 plow each with 100 or 150 feet of twisted nylon rode and 6 feet of galvanized chain connecting the anchor to rode to help the anchor stay flat against the bottom. Extra lines of 50-100 feet are helpful as a common way to secure the boat in Georgian Bay or other sheltered coves is dropping anchor near shore and tying the other end to something ashore.

A depth sounder is not essential but strongly advised to determine depth if you are looking to navigate in shoal waters. It is best when used to watch trends of depth more than absolute depth numbers. It can also help when navigating in fog when you are working with a chart.

Nowadays, GPS is commonplace and is on most hand-held communications devices. Knowing exactly where you are takes all the guess work out of navigating and will greatly enhance your safety on the water.

A VHF radio is an excellent safety device as it gives you ready access to other boats in the area, most travel with and monitor VHF hailing channel 16, as well as reach out to Coast Guard radio that monitors channel 16 24/7/365. If you have a choice of antenna location, put it at the top of the mast as height is directly associated with range.

PFDs are something everyone thinks about when considering everyone's safety but few think to attach a whistle to increase the likelihood of finding a head bobbing in the waves. A throwable ring is another device that is easy to carry and keep on hand. Tethers are not really necessary unless you are sailing alone and need to make sure the boat does not sail off and leave you behind- but they may be ideal for giving you peace of mind with small children aboard.

Figure out a way to have someone climb out of the water, either a mounted ladder or a step on a rope attached to a cleat that can give them a foothold. On the high end, I have a LifeSling with the lifting tackle that will hoist anybody aboard no matter how much ballast they carry.

I will add more later as it wells up. I have sailed and cruised the Great Lakes since 1985 and have spent up to 2 weeks aboard on cruises with the Trailer Sailors Association in Georgian Bay and North Channel. There are organizations such as T/SA that cater to us family oriented small boat cruisers that are a wealth of information.

Derek

 

[John Nantz]

Mosquito Repellant

'nuf said!

Well, almost. Make that LOTS of mosquito repellant!

We tried to cruise the northern Michigan area at the end of June and gave up because the critters kept plastering the windshield on the car and it actually got difficult to see out.

Needless to say we never splashed the boat.

 

[greenminnow]

Wayne, You should read the Marlin Bree Books he wrote on sailing Lake Superior. He circumnavigated the whole lake on about 4 diff. trips. He did this all with his 22' wood boat that he built himself "Persistance" He had some very exciting to say the least experiences. Try www.marlinbree.com his books are excellent! Brian

 

[greenminnow]

Actually Persistence is a 20' boat weighing in at 1100 lbs. Brian

 

[watercolors II]

The ideal trailering sailboat

The 22 to 23 foot trailer boat is as large as you want to go if you’re not going to moor it. Rigging and de-rigging is a real pain and will be a major deterrent to sailing more often if trailering every trip. The weight of the boat will depend on your tow vehicle which can cost more than 5 times the used boat cost to replace.

Flotation; a great mfg. selling feature or maybe needed to pass Coast Guard approval because of design flaws. Because you’ll be using for more than day trips, lots of storage will be a requirement.

Keel; wing keels work great in shallow waters but, will sideslip and be more uncomfortable in rough water, when the weather kicks up a deeper keel is far superior, swing or shoal with drop board I would recommend.

Outboard motor; 4 hp minimum for a 22 foot boat will drive the hull into a 25 mph wind maybe only 1/2 to 1 mph, 8 to 9.9 hp I would recommend.

Roller furling; convenient head sail setup if you moor your boat but, when trailering adds 30% more rigging and de-rigging time and I already stated you’ll sail less because of this time. My trailering experiences say to me if a great boat comes available with a furler the first thing I would do is remove it and install hanks on the sail. The reasons are; 1. rigging and de-rigging time, 2. poor sail shape when furled where extra sail sizes perform much better, shape and performance is a plus in heavy weather sailing, 3. mechanical failures of this device will happen at the absolute worst time.

Sail controls for heavy weather; 1. mainsheet traveler with long movement for shaping and setting the main, 2. head sail tracks extra long for shaping different sizes of sails, 3. mainsail with 2 reefing points with the right setup of easy reefing of this sail, this last item can be modified to needs if not available.

 

[Florida sail]

Check out the Rhodes 22 by General Boat. Impossible to sink and a very safe sailing boat.

 

[dscribner]

My wife and I sail the Atlantic almost every weekend, season and wind permitting. Our Lancer 25 displaces 3400 lbs, closer to 4000 all loaded. We trailer her thru city and town; we're as long as a semi-trailer. And we step the mast every time. From the time I stop the truck to the time my lovely bride pulls the truck out of the water to park it, is less than 30 minutes. The boat is fully rigged at this point. I'm not a big guy and we are both staring down 50. We have launched her in pretty shallow ramps including a marginally maintained town ramp. So, don't be afraid of a slightly larger boat.

We looked at a Precision 23 (if my memory serves me) a couple of hours before we bought the Lancer 25. We paid $300 more but got twice the boat (size wise). I'm guessing beam and freeboard had something to do with it. The last time we sailed this year, we had 7-8 foot following seas. Yes, I was tense, but the Phoenix surfed those waves just fine.

IMHO, pick the biggest boat that you are comfortable with and add a foot or two. Outfit her with all the right stuff, flares, radio, GPS, charts, sounder, wine, pretty Mrs. Go sailing! The only thing that you really have to watch out for is, you'll need to write this down. Get some paper, I'll wait . . . Ok, the only thing you really NEED to have a good cruise, is a good size head. Porta-Potti is fine, holding tank, it doesn't matter. The one thing I don't like with my Lancer is the head. It is QUITE a docking manuever to get a good seal without scaring the gulls. Oh yeah, and NEVER tack while she's in there!

Oh, and the hairy one isn't my wife. That's my youngest boy. He just get's his hair from his mother!

 

[Bosman]

Not sure what your budget is for the boat. In Canada, there is number of TES 678 trailerable cruisers made by TES Yachts http://www.tes-yacht.ca that zip around the Great Lakes. They are fairly affordable too, for a new boat.

 

[Hawk4661]

Nice looking boat.It reminds me a lot of my HUnter 23.5 with draft of 14" up 5'6"dwn.