I'm hoping to retire towards the end of this year and would like to get a sailboat. Retirement income - think small, used and inexpensive. I don't mind doing some work on the boat, as long as it doesn't involve major fiberglass repairs. I'm trying to keep things as basic as possibly - no electronics, no electrical system, etc.. Unsinkability/lots of flotation would be an absolute necessity. Most of the time I would be sailing alone, but occasionally I might have as many as 3 other people with me. I would probably be keeping the boat on a trailer at home and taking it to the marina (a 5 minute drive) two or three times a week, so ease of setting up would be a big consideration. I live in Martinez CA so the area I would be sailing in is the Carquinez Straits - that's more or less the area where San Francisco Bay meets the Sacramento River - 1 mile wide, about 6 miles long, strong currents, moderately strong winds, waves usually about 1 to 2 feet (I think). I've done a lot of research but I'd like to know what the experts think - here goes: I think something in the 12 to 14 foot range would just be too small - otherwise I'd go with a Lido. I'm thinking 16 foot to 19 foot, and like the Capri 16, the Cape Dory (18 or 19 foot?) and the Flying Scot. Another option would be to get a slightly larger boat and just keep it at the Marina. I like the 22 foot Tanzer and the Chryslers in that range. I think 22 feet is as big as I'd want to go. A more far out option would be to build a boat from a kit - either the 12' San Francisco Bay Pelican or a 19' dory (I do love those double-enders). I'm guessing I'm the 1,000 person to ask this question so I wouldn't blame you if no one answered, but I would like to have the benefit of your experience.
What Boat To Buy?
- Thread starter Mr Bill
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For 16 years I sailed a 23 foot Clipper Marine out of Bethel Island (San Joaquin Delta). We had great use out of it and frequently spent a week or more on board with 2 kids and 2 Labrador Retrievers. It served us very well.
That said, I always limited our sailing to areas and conditions I felt that boat could handle. There was an incident where 6 people took a CM 23 offshore San Diego and the hull and deck separated, resulting in fatalities.
I can tell you we once tried to go to Napa and got such a beating from the waves in Suisun Bay, two days in row that we gave up, and never went that way again.
If you intend to include San Pablo Bay or Suisun Bay in your sailing area you need a boat that can handle it. Size is not that important but toughness and stability are, because sooner or later you will be caught out in it.
Our Hunter Cutter 37 rides serenely through much worse than what scared me in the CM 23 (especially when my family had their faith in me).
For the currents in that area you also need an engine that really can push and will work in big waves.
Although I had a trailer for the CM 23 (Yay - $20 haul outs) we kept it in the water because it was so much more fun. Think spontaneous use and over nights at the dock.
With so many bargains at the moment I would recommend you look for a boat with the requisite seaworthiness that will open up the whole bay to you.
That said, I always limited our sailing to areas and conditions I felt that boat could handle. There was an incident where 6 people took a CM 23 offshore San Diego and the hull and deck separated, resulting in fatalities.
I can tell you we once tried to go to Napa and got such a beating from the waves in Suisun Bay, two days in row that we gave up, and never went that way again.
If you intend to include San Pablo Bay or Suisun Bay in your sailing area you need a boat that can handle it. Size is not that important but toughness and stability are, because sooner or later you will be caught out in it.
Our Hunter Cutter 37 rides serenely through much worse than what scared me in the CM 23 (especially when my family had their faith in me).
For the currents in that area you also need an engine that really can push and will work in big waves.
Although I had a trailer for the CM 23 (Yay - $20 haul outs) we kept it in the water because it was so much more fun. Think spontaneous use and over nights at the dock.
With so many bargains at the moment I would recommend you look for a boat with the requisite seaworthiness that will open up the whole bay to you.
You will get a zillion opinions from everyone. Ultimately your choice needs to do what you want to do.
My experience is that a 19 footer is easy to trailer and set up with little fuss. You can also have enough space for four adults in the cockpit and sleeping (more like camping) space in a small cabin. I enjoyed our O'Day 19 ($1650 with trailer and motor) for those reasons. I could also go out into the "bigger water" on nice days. I loved the swing keel to get right on the shore. We had lessons in Rhodes 19 keelboats. These are a great size boat for safety and convenience.
Moving up to a Capri 22 ($1250 with motor - no trailer) involves a bit more work to get the mast up and it has many more control lines. Trailer-sailing is doable but takes more planning and use of a gin pole or a-frame to ease raising the mast. We had our Capri 22 in a slip for the past two seasons and found we were out most every weekend, extending our range as our skills improved.
This year we will use our Cape Dory 25 (purchased for $1250 - no trailer, needing some handyman level repairs - barrier coat for hull and replacing rigging - affordable boats are out there). I do enjoy the maintenance and restoration process, but I do go one step at a time. We can trailer it to and from the marina as the season begins and ends. Trailer sailing is not a real option especially since we have been spoiled by a slip.
I would like to go up "one size" larger to have a standup cabin yet still be "towable" at the ends of the season to store it in my back yard. Obtaining an oversize permit will be required.
This fall I also got a Laser. I wanted something quick and simple to transport and rig.
Remember to make your final choice to match your needs. Be open to different boat brands. The smaller ones will teach you more about sailing - AND they are much less expensive. Boat dollars are proportional to length.
Good luck and ask a lot of questions. Take as many "trial sails" as crew as possible to see what features and characteristics you like. There are many boats offered for sale that require little more than cleaning to be able to use them.
Consider a sailing club for the first year. It can be very inexpensive especially since you don;t have to deal with the maintenance.
My experience is that a 19 footer is easy to trailer and set up with little fuss. You can also have enough space for four adults in the cockpit and sleeping (more like camping) space in a small cabin. I enjoyed our O'Day 19 ($1650 with trailer and motor) for those reasons. I could also go out into the "bigger water" on nice days. I loved the swing keel to get right on the shore. We had lessons in Rhodes 19 keelboats. These are a great size boat for safety and convenience.
Moving up to a Capri 22 ($1250 with motor - no trailer) involves a bit more work to get the mast up and it has many more control lines. Trailer-sailing is doable but takes more planning and use of a gin pole or a-frame to ease raising the mast. We had our Capri 22 in a slip for the past two seasons and found we were out most every weekend, extending our range as our skills improved.
This year we will use our Cape Dory 25 (purchased for $1250 - no trailer, needing some handyman level repairs - barrier coat for hull and replacing rigging - affordable boats are out there). I do enjoy the maintenance and restoration process, but I do go one step at a time. We can trailer it to and from the marina as the season begins and ends. Trailer sailing is not a real option especially since we have been spoiled by a slip.
I would like to go up "one size" larger to have a standup cabin yet still be "towable" at the ends of the season to store it in my back yard. Obtaining an oversize permit will be required.
This fall I also got a Laser. I wanted something quick and simple to transport and rig.
Remember to make your final choice to match your needs. Be open to different boat brands. The smaller ones will teach you more about sailing - AND they are much less expensive. Boat dollars are proportional to length.
Good luck and ask a lot of questions. Take as many "trial sails" as crew as possible to see what features and characteristics you like. There are many boats offered for sale that require little more than cleaning to be able to use them.
Consider a sailing club for the first year. It can be very inexpensive especially since you don;t have to deal with the maintenance.
Good suggestions so far. As mentioned it is important to figure out what you want to do with the boat and then find something that fits the "Bill". Sorry couldn't help it! If you are going to trailer think that you are going to spend at least 40 to 60 minutes on setting up the boat at the ramp. This was such an inconvenience for me and finally I found a marina with some yard space to keep the boat ready rigged and all my prep time has gone down to 10 minutes. Having the boat in the water would be ideal but the price where I am is triple the amount and I keep saying to myself that I don't want the headaches of painting the bottom. Deep inside the voices are telling me to keep her in the water for reasons others have mentioned. If you want to gunkhole and stay onboard several nights I suggest going for a 22, Catalina, Macgregor or others in that class. A search online will produce many to choose from.
Great advice from all. Sounds like I should probably confine my sailing to a little further up the river (Pittsburg or Antioch) and think about just leaving the boat in the water or storage area at a marina.
JohnB - any suggestions as to what brand/model/length would be good?
Thanks.
JohnB - any suggestions as to what brand/model/length would be good?
Thanks.
If you're gonna leave it in a marina... maybe haul out a couple times a year.... the Capri 22 is awesome... very large cockpit, but a small cabin with a head. Very flat deck that is safe to work on... fast... I believer you can find fixed or swing keels.... but if I was leaving in the water most of the time I'd go for the fixed keel. This one's priced a little high.... shop around to find your deal. http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/24156
If you go the trailerable route.... look for an older Cal 20. Very popular fleet racer, an even better daysailer. Again, a small cabin for your guests... but easily handled by one person... Very good prices on the Cal 20 too. http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
For a bit smaller I like the Capri 18..... easier to rig and handle from a trailor http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/26113.
An alternative to renting a slip or mooring is dry land, mast up storage at the marina.. if offered. Many have their own lift to drop the boat in yourself, or simply ramp launch it quickly, because the boat stays rigged on the trailer.
If you go the trailerable route.... look for an older Cal 20. Very popular fleet racer, an even better daysailer. Again, a small cabin for your guests... but easily handled by one person... Very good prices on the Cal 20 too. http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
For a bit smaller I like the Capri 18..... easier to rig and handle from a trailor http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/26113.
An alternative to renting a slip or mooring is dry land, mast up storage at the marina.. if offered. Many have their own lift to drop the boat in yourself, or simply ramp launch it quickly, because the boat stays rigged on the trailer.
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Mr Bill,
Spend the next nine months on as many boats as you can. Hang out at clubs. Get as much experience as you can. No body can answer this question for you at this time. In nine months YOU'LL have a good idea, or at least be able to ask good questions.
Spend the next nine months on as many boats as you can. Hang out at clubs. Get as much experience as you can. No body can answer this question for you at this time. In nine months YOU'LL have a good idea, or at least be able to ask good questions.
I'm with jackdaw. Go to a sailing center. Sail Optis and Sunfish. Keep your wallet in your pocket. Look around in your sailing neighborhood. Ask questions locally. Crew on OP's boats. Keep your wallet in your pocket. Ask again in 2013/14
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I don't think you want a trailerable boat that you are going to take home after each sail if you are going to sail it 3 days a week.
First you will need a tow vehicle, second it is going to take you 30-60 mintues to step the mast each time out and something less to drop it.
I would suggest that look around for something like a Catalina 22/25/27, Hunters in the same size ranges and leave it in the water for that type of use. You also need something with a fairly shoal draft. That marina really needs major dredging and no one can tell you when that my happen.
I would also suggest that you buy the boat now so you can decide if you need to work a little longer so you can afford the "fix up" <g>
First you will need a tow vehicle, second it is going to take you 30-60 mintues to step the mast each time out and something less to drop it.
I would suggest that look around for something like a Catalina 22/25/27, Hunters in the same size ranges and leave it in the water for that type of use. You also need something with a fairly shoal draft. That marina really needs major dredging and no one can tell you when that my happen.
I would also suggest that you buy the boat now so you can decide if you need to work a little longer so you can afford the "fix up" <g>
Boy, I really am getting old. I prepared a detailed question to ask on this forum, but first I decided to search to make sure that the question hadn't already been asked. To my surprise, the question had been asked 5 months ago - by me! As my old boss used to say "Boy, is my face red!" Since the last time I asked I've added the Marshall Sandpiper to my list, although I doubt that I could ever find a used one in my price class. Although I really, really like the Cape Dory Typhoon there seem to be very few of them for sale. I'm leaning towards the Flying Scot simply because there appears to be a plentiful supply of them in the $3,000 price range (but all of them are 2,500 miles away from me).
Mr. Bill, our yacht club owns about 10 Flying Scots that members are allowed to take out. They are kept on the hard on their trailers, mast always up, boom attached. When you want to take one out, you roll it to the hoist, hook the hoist up to the cable permanently on the boat, put it in the water, put on the sails, and you sail away. When you get back, you take off the sails, hoist the boat back onto the trailer, roll it to its spot, and go home. Quite a few people keep their own Flying Scots (and other types, like J-22, Rhodes 19, etc) and do the same thing when they go sailing.
The point to my thing is, does your marina offer dry storage like that, with a hoist you can use? That would save you from having to trailer and set up your boat every time.
By the way, my wife and I really like the Flying Scots. I also like the J-22.
The point to my thing is, does your marina offer dry storage like that, with a hoist you can use? That would save you from having to trailer and set up your boat every time.
By the way, my wife and I really like the Flying Scots. I also like the J-22.
venture / macgregor 21-23
or a v17 if you have a small car.
/thread
http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99venture.html
here you go.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/3054955573.html
or a v17 if you have a small car.
/thread
http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99venture.html
here you go.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/3054955573.html
I started asking that question 30 years ago and I still dont know the answer. But im narrowing it down. What I have learned over the ensuing years, hence my name, is you need a motor. Sailing ships with 100's of men aboard to row and pole it around are wonderful. We dont have that option. You dont want a motor, you need a motor. And you also need enough motor to shove it hard when needs be. In a perfect world, you want a diesel inboard. IMHO a 25 to 30 foot sailboat with an inboard diesel is almost the best of every world. Small enough a rookie can figure it out and learn to handle it. Big enough you can live on it a while. Get one with a good reputation and the only deciding factor to its ability is the helmsman.
Before you get a wife, you get a few girlfriends. You need to kick a few trailer tires in your location to see what is available.
Clipper Marine was mentioned, and they are great price wise, but getting hard to find one, when you are looking for the model you want. Easier to find a Mac or a few other dozen brands. I would not blue water most CM's. Buy in large, they are light weight sailboats made easy to trailer. If Trailering is your goal, and you can find one, they are great old boats with a strong heritage of pleasing their owners.
Clipper Marine was mentioned, and they are great price wise, but getting hard to find one, when you are looking for the model you want. Easier to find a Mac or a few other dozen brands. I would not blue water most CM's. Buy in large, they are light weight sailboats made easy to trailer. If Trailering is your goal, and you can find one, they are great old boats with a strong heritage of pleasing their owners.
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