Can anyone tell me about the Seidelmann company. I have a chance to buy one, but i am finding it very hard to find anything on the web about them. I would like to know if they hold up and if the quailty of the boat is good? Any additional information would help. 34' Seidelmann sloop 1984
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Hector Mujica
Seidelman Questions
I have a Seidelmann 25, 1980, I bought it 7 years ago and I am the second Owner. It is very difficult to find almost any information about these boats. Jack Horner (famous marine surveyor) was kind enough to forward some info to me. These boats were built as "racer-crusiers" meeting the IOR specifications. Now-a-days I consider that a serious drawback if you are looking for a "sedated" type of a boat. I can only speak of my experience; the boat "turns on a dime", it has excellent upwind characteristics, but if you are not carefull you'll do a 180 when you tack or jib with a stiff breaze, it sails very well with a crew of two, but if you like me likes to sail alone you better use only as a maximun a 125 jib, otherwise you'll have a handfull (much more than a single person can handle). If you have not rigged every possible line to the cockpit, I recommend you do. They were reasonably well built, solid fiberglass, strong transom, excellent rudder. In fact the more I learn about boats the more it looks to me that Bob Seidelman or got inspired by or got "permission" from Nautor-Swan line of racer cruisers. Seidelmann boats have (in my bias mind) very appealing and elegant lines, they carry a wide beam way back so they increase the floatation capabilities when they reach about 18-20 degrees of heeling. They have very nice interior for the money, very solid keel, excellent rigging,very good hull to deck joint. Now, the weak points: Not much deck hardware (I added two larger winches and cleats, organizers, etc) in fact very "plain Jane", in my case - mast stept on the cabin top - my came with a bad support roof for the tabernacle (from under cabin) I built up a reinforced interior support. Unfortunatelly I have not been able to find more information about the "mayor sailing charachteristics" of these boats. I'll appreciate any more info that you can share. By the By as used boats (they stop making them in the mid 80's) for the boat you get they do not have a very "steep" price.
I have a Seidelmann 25, 1980, I bought it 7 years ago and I am the second Owner. It is very difficult to find almost any information about these boats. Jack Horner (famous marine surveyor) was kind enough to forward some info to me. These boats were built as "racer-crusiers" meeting the IOR specifications. Now-a-days I consider that a serious drawback if you are looking for a "sedated" type of a boat. I can only speak of my experience; the boat "turns on a dime", it has excellent upwind characteristics, but if you are not carefull you'll do a 180 when you tack or jib with a stiff breaze, it sails very well with a crew of two, but if you like me likes to sail alone you better use only as a maximun a 125 jib, otherwise you'll have a handfull (much more than a single person can handle). If you have not rigged every possible line to the cockpit, I recommend you do. They were reasonably well built, solid fiberglass, strong transom, excellent rudder. In fact the more I learn about boats the more it looks to me that Bob Seidelman or got inspired by or got "permission" from Nautor-Swan line of racer cruisers. Seidelmann boats have (in my bias mind) very appealing and elegant lines, they carry a wide beam way back so they increase the floatation capabilities when they reach about 18-20 degrees of heeling. They have very nice interior for the money, very solid keel, excellent rigging,very good hull to deck joint. Now, the weak points: Not much deck hardware (I added two larger winches and cleats, organizers, etc) in fact very "plain Jane", in my case - mast stept on the cabin top - my came with a bad support roof for the tabernacle (from under cabin) I built up a reinforced interior support. Unfortunatelly I have not been able to find more information about the "mayor sailing charachteristics" of these boats. I'll appreciate any more info that you can share. By the By as used boats (they stop making them in the mid 80's) for the boat you get they do not have a very "steep" price.
Seidelmann 299
I know of a Seidelmann 299 that has had major chainplate and compression post reconstructive surgery. I would hire a surveyor before purchasing. Good luck, Monty
I know of a Seidelmann 299 that has had major chainplate and compression post reconstructive surgery. I would hire a surveyor before purchasing. Good luck, Monty
Why a boat may get a bum rap,but low $ is not bad
There seem to be a lot of guys like "Warren M" That know nothing but say stuff anyway about things just to have something to say(it's EZer to say or point to bad stuff) In this world if any 1984 or more boat is still kickin,it was good to start with,nearly all older boats are more about how the owners used and cared for them,then how well it was built if it is still around! Like Monty said,get a surveyor before purchasing! If you like the layout and looks,your the one that must be happy,not any others with your boat!Have Fun,that is the thing!
There seem to be a lot of guys like "Warren M" That know nothing but say stuff anyway about things just to have something to say(it's EZer to say or point to bad stuff) In this world if any 1984 or more boat is still kickin,it was good to start with,nearly all older boats are more about how the owners used and cared for them,then how well it was built if it is still around! Like Monty said,get a surveyor before purchasing! If you like the layout and looks,your the one that must be happy,not any others with your boat!Have Fun,that is the thing!
R
Rick Sylvester
Easy there Lee
I'm sure your point about the value of older boats being driven by the care of PO's is well taken, but I read Warren's post as a caveat. Not a bad thing for someone who's about to lay down his hard earned cash. Actually, my take on Seidelmanns for sale in our area is exactly the same as Warren's, they're definately on the low end of the scale. It may be because the hardware onboard is typically sparse or that there isn't brand familiarity in the market like there is for, say, Catalina or Hunter. Clearly, these things don't necessarily make the Seidelmann a bad boat but Warren's supposition that there must be a reason for the price level is one that any prudent buyer should ask. I wouldn't automatically assume that he's just slamming the boat. Two things, FWIW. One, read Practical Sailor's reviews (I don't remember which model.) They weren't impressed, in fact they were downright insulting. Of course they weren't impressed with Hunters early on either and here I am living on one so go figure. Two, my slip neighbor lives on his Seidelmann 37 and he loves it. It is VERY lightly rigged, but for the sailing he does it's just fine. Fair winds.
I'm sure your point about the value of older boats being driven by the care of PO's is well taken, but I read Warren's post as a caveat. Not a bad thing for someone who's about to lay down his hard earned cash. Actually, my take on Seidelmanns for sale in our area is exactly the same as Warren's, they're definately on the low end of the scale. It may be because the hardware onboard is typically sparse or that there isn't brand familiarity in the market like there is for, say, Catalina or Hunter. Clearly, these things don't necessarily make the Seidelmann a bad boat but Warren's supposition that there must be a reason for the price level is one that any prudent buyer should ask. I wouldn't automatically assume that he's just slamming the boat. Two things, FWIW. One, read Practical Sailor's reviews (I don't remember which model.) They weren't impressed, in fact they were downright insulting. Of course they weren't impressed with Hunters early on either and here I am living on one so go figure. Two, my slip neighbor lives on his Seidelmann 37 and he loves it. It is VERY lightly rigged, but for the sailing he does it's just fine. Fair winds.
Seidelman, Pt II
As a sailor with over 30 years of experience owning, operating, maintaining, as well as buying and selling sailboats, including having written a number of published articles about these activities in some national and regional sailing magazines, I know that boat preferences are all in the eye of the beholder. Yet, the marketplace for used boats is a great leveler. Almost everyone who buys one will, one day, try to sell it. Reputation will have a lot to do with the price you get. Ask yourself things like how much boat do I need and at what price and you will begin to understand the concept of value. A really good boat selling for below market prices could be a great value but, as a minimum, it ought to set off a number of warning lights on your dashboard. I know there must be some sound and truly wonderful Seidelman boats out there, just as I know there must be some Hinckley's, Sabre's, and Crealock's that are in dire need of help. Each boat is unique. It really is a caveat emptor world out there so anyone, particularly a first time boat buyer, ought to avail himself of all sources of information about the product he can find. While I, too, recommend the use of a professional surveyor, finding and hiring a really good one is not easy and it: (1) does not shift the responsibility of making an informed decision; and (2) finding a really good surveyor, and understanding what he or she may tell you about the boat in question, requires a lot of research on the part of the buyer. The mistake many make is to hire a surveyor and then go on auto-pilot. It may surprise some to learn that there are no uniform nationally accepted qualifications for a marine surveyor. Organizations like NAMS and SAMS certainly do have standards that their members must meet, but just about anyone can hang out a shingle proclaiming them to be a "qualified marine surveyor." Walk around a marina and ask boat owners about the surveys they've had and you'll hear one horror story after another. You'll also glean a list of surveyors you may want to use, as well. So, all you can learn about the boat and the survey process beforehand is the real challenge at hand.
As a sailor with over 30 years of experience owning, operating, maintaining, as well as buying and selling sailboats, including having written a number of published articles about these activities in some national and regional sailing magazines, I know that boat preferences are all in the eye of the beholder. Yet, the marketplace for used boats is a great leveler. Almost everyone who buys one will, one day, try to sell it. Reputation will have a lot to do with the price you get. Ask yourself things like how much boat do I need and at what price and you will begin to understand the concept of value. A really good boat selling for below market prices could be a great value but, as a minimum, it ought to set off a number of warning lights on your dashboard. I know there must be some sound and truly wonderful Seidelman boats out there, just as I know there must be some Hinckley's, Sabre's, and Crealock's that are in dire need of help. Each boat is unique. It really is a caveat emptor world out there so anyone, particularly a first time boat buyer, ought to avail himself of all sources of information about the product he can find. While I, too, recommend the use of a professional surveyor, finding and hiring a really good one is not easy and it: (1) does not shift the responsibility of making an informed decision; and (2) finding a really good surveyor, and understanding what he or she may tell you about the boat in question, requires a lot of research on the part of the buyer. The mistake many make is to hire a surveyor and then go on auto-pilot. It may surprise some to learn that there are no uniform nationally accepted qualifications for a marine surveyor. Organizations like NAMS and SAMS certainly do have standards that their members must meet, but just about anyone can hang out a shingle proclaiming them to be a "qualified marine surveyor." Walk around a marina and ask boat owners about the surveys they've had and you'll hear one horror story after another. You'll also glean a list of surveyors you may want to use, as well. So, all you can learn about the boat and the survey process beforehand is the real challenge at hand.
Now Warren M said a lot of very good info!
Those are great points. Sorry if my post was also to short first time! As ponited out also,even Practical Sailor's reviews are off by a good bit many times! My real point if missed,was that any boats Reputation is hert by off hand remarks,or I here this or that about,someone said etc.. Many reviews are done in the big boat mag. buy some one that only look at a sales flyer and never seen the boat much less sailed it,and printed his bull*#@%&. Then some one repets that(after all it was in black and white. I grew up building boats at my Dads Yard,he design as well,so yes I to know boats,and know many are under rated from that type of stuff. Thanks Warren for filling in the blacks.
Those are great points. Sorry if my post was also to short first time! As ponited out also,even Practical Sailor's reviews are off by a good bit many times! My real point if missed,was that any boats Reputation is hert by off hand remarks,or I here this or that about,someone said etc.. Many reviews are done in the big boat mag. buy some one that only look at a sales flyer and never seen the boat much less sailed it,and printed his bull*#@%&. Then some one repets that(after all it was in black and white. I grew up building boats at my Dads Yard,he design as well,so yes I to know boats,and know many are under rated from that type of stuff. Thanks Warren for filling in the blacks.
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