wet bowl failure

[Mike4116]

Peggy:
I have a Wilcox-Crittendon (sp) on my 1980 28 O'day. It has recently stopped pulling fresh flush water into the bowl when it is pumped. It seems to work OK on the dry bowl operation. I have tried putting mineral oil into the works but it hasn't helped. Any help will be appreciated.
Thx,
Mike

 

[Head Master18695]

When's the last time is was rebuilt? Generally speaking, manual toilets should be rebuilt every 3-5 years. If it was original to the boat, its over 30 years old... Things don't last forever.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If the toilet is original...

It's 30 years old! The anticipated lifespan of most (all but one) compact manual toilets is an average of 9 years...which can reasonably doubled by light use and scrupulous maintenance. But a 30 yr old toilet is worn out!

Thetford-Norcold discontinued the entire W-C line a couple of years ago, but rebuild kits are still available. That might solve the immediate problem, or it might not if a machined part has finally bought the farm...so putting out that money is risky. Even if it did, you still wouldn't have a toilet that's working very efficiently any more.

So IMO, it's time to replace it. Check this out: sbo.com PHII PHC LBA

 

[Mike4116]

Peggy:
Thx for the link. I will go measure my bowl base to make sure it fits the Raritan pump system. I last rebuilt the pump mechanism about six years ago and I agree it is an old system and is worn out. I will get those measurements and use your link to fix the problem.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Trust me...

It fits! Really!

 

[Mike4116]

OK Peggy I ordered the PHC LBA pump assembly yesterday. I like it that I can use my existing bowl and hose systems. Just add the pump, problems solved. I'll post the results of my installation here when I "git 'er done". Not that it should matter but the boat has always been a fresh water boat and will remain in the Great Lakes as long as I own her.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Not quite THAT simple...

You said, I like it that I can use my existing bowl and hose systems. Just add the pump, problems solved.

You'll also be replacing the base, which won't match the mounting bolt holes for your current toilet. So that will require drilling a couple of new holes and filling the one(s) you won't use. The good news: it's not that hard to do. Toilets are mounted using lag bolts, so just back 'em out...no nuts to deal with. A little epoxy filler, some touch up paint...

And you'll prob'ly need some new 3/4" hose...'cuz the intake fitting is on the FRONT of the PHII/PHC pump, requiring about 3" more line than a fitting at the rear (which is where most of 'em are). You'll need a vented loop in the intake too (necessary for all manual toilets and most electrics that use raw water)...it needs to be between the pump and the bowl, which will also require enough hose to put it at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL...which, on most sailboats puts 2-3 FEET above the bowl.

And finally, if the hoses are anywhere near as old as your toilet--or even anywhere near 10 years old, you need to replace ALL the hoses.

Do it all right the first time so you won't ever have to do it over.

So there's just a WEE bit more to installing it than just "plug and play" set 'er down and put your bowl on it.

 

[Mike4116]

Looks like I will be getting the old head out, pulling all the hoses which feed to the holding tank, which vent the system and supply to the fresh water flush. I think I'll approach it systematically by seeing what I need in terms of WHAT I need, take some measurements and then making one trip to West Marine for supplies.. The good news is the area where I'll be working on the 28 O'day is fairly generous and the area where the holding tank is, is also roomy. If I have any questions it's nice to know I can get some help here. Thanks for the heads-up (no pun meant) on the somewhat more complex install.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Shop other sources...

WM is typically 30-50% higher than anyone else!

Check the prices at the online store right here: sbo.com plumbing It supports this forum!

 

[Mike4116]

Hi Peggy:
I would love to support the on-line store here but WM, although way higher, is close to the boat and when I get the head removed I will very much want to get the thing replace ASAP. Since I have no idea how much hose, in length, I will be needing I will have to go the WM store for the stuff. Can't really afford the time lag with shipping for the hose to arrive then another three hour trip to the boat to finish the installation. I do, however shop here whenever possible. Anyway, I very much appreciate the advice you have given me so far in the project. I will not hesitate to tap you as a resource as I get the head rebuilt.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You need to slow down...'cuz WM doesn't sell...

...Trident hose OR PH II "conversion." Defender carries Trident and they had the complete PH II on sale $199 recently...think they still do. Trident 101 or 102 is the ONLY hose you want to use for 1" and 1.5". I THINK you only want to do this ONCE....right? If you use any other hose, I guarantee you'll be replacing hoses again, maybe in as little as year, definitely in less than 5. And you DO want the best toilet for the money, right?

So slow down...get your ducks lined up beak to tail BEFORE you rip anything out...and then order it all at once. Measure the amount of hose you'll need and make a list of everything else, then order it all. So if you think it'll take too long to get 'em from here (it wont' take any longer), order 'em from Defender. If you get it all spec'd out this weekend and order everything on Monday, you should have it all in time to do all the work next weekend. Only a one week delay to do it right.