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albinvega1865 · Aug 9, 2007

Hi Everyone!

Oh boy...more engine problems it seems. Actually, I don't think this is an engine problem so much as it is an (ignition or electrical) problem.

We went for a quick sail this afternoon and when I tried to start the engine (and yes...I hold my breath) I got this weird sound that I thought was from the ignition switch. When I turn the key, I hear an awful buzzing sound (a rapid ticking buzz) that seems to be coming out of a small box where the negative terminals seem to meet and be connected...the bus???or something???? That little box vibrates and buzzes almost off the hook!!!

The engine does not turn over at all as it seems there must be a short originating from this bus?!? Or whatever it is....Occasionally (I noticed) the RPM's shot up to 5K...though the engine is not even turning over.

Any ideas on what the problem might be??

Thanks for your suggestions and help with this!
Chris

groundhogyh · Aug 9, 2007

I'm really guessing here....

But the little box. It sounds like the starter solenoid/relay. In mine it's an aluminum type box. Sort of dirty old aluminum color.

IF, your battery is weak. When you turn on the key and try to engage the starter, it draws a great deal of current from the battery. Maybe your battery is asked for current. The switch closes. THe battery dies a bit. THe switch opens up from the weakened battery. Then no more current is pulled from the battery. Then the battery comes alive again only to close the switch again and die. Repeat over and over.

The same thing can happen if you have a high resistance (read "bad connection or too thin a wire") connection from either of the positive or negative terminals of the battery along the circuit path.

roy

stevebirch2002 · Aug 10, 2007

Hi Chris

Sounds like the combined regulator/solenoid. WHat happens is the
contacts have become pitted and need cleaning, perhaps check the gap as
well (may need closing a bit - Trial and error).

Not a big problem I'm sure. To check it out you can short across the
contactor terminals (2 really big ones) and that should turn the engine
over, be careful and dont get near the flywheel etc!!

Cheers

Steve B

albinvega1865 · Aug 10, 2007

Roy,

That is exactly what it looks like Roy. An aluminum box, roughly 2" wide, 3" high by maybe 4" or 3 1/2" long. Tons of chatter in this box when trying to engage the starter and it vibrates like hell! Any way to get into this box? I couldn't see how you open the cover...

Chris

groundhog groundhog1rb@... wrote:
I'm really guessing here....

But the little box. It sounds like the starter solenoid/relay. In mine it's an aluminum type box. Sort of dirty old aluminum color.

IF, your battery is weak. When you turn on the key and try to engage the starter, it draws a great deal of current from the battery. Maybe your battery is asked for current. The switch closes. THe battery dies a bit. THe switch opens up from the weakened battery. Then no more current is pulled from the battery. Then the battery comes alive again only to close the switch again and die. Repeat over and over.

The same thing can happen if you have a high resistance (read "bad connection or too thin a wire") connection from either of the positive or negative terminals of the battery along the circuit path.

roy

Vega1447 · Aug 10, 2007

Hi Chris,
before opening the solenoid box it might be worth confirming Roy's
hypothesis by checking the voltage on the engine battery with a
multimeter - you can buy them in Ireland for about 10euro - and for a
lot less in more advanced democracies...

If voltage across the two terminals of the engine battery (with no
current flowing) is less than say 12V I'd suggest recharging the battery
and trying to crank the engine.

Also prob worth checking the alternator once you get engine running to
see if batteries are being charged..

John

Vega 1447 BreakawayChris Graham wrote:

albinvega1865 · Aug 10, 2007

Thanks John!

I checked the battery with the Multi, and it read something around 12.45 v. Maybe a bit less, but it was well above 12v. I wish that that had been the problem, and the alternator seems to be fine, but when I visit her next, I will test both. I believe that she has a Bosch alternator, and it seems to be a newer model than the original, though I could be sadly mistaken!

Great suggestions and I appreciate your help!
Cheers
Chris

John Kinsella John.Kinsella@... wrote: Hi Chris,
before opening the solenoid box it might be worth confirming Roy's
hypothesis by checking the voltage on the engine battery with a
multimeter - you can buy them in Ireland for about 10euro - and for a
lot less in more advanced democracies...

If voltage across the two terminals of the engine battery (with no
current flowing) is less than say 12V I'd suggest recharging the battery
and trying to crank the engine.

Also prob worth checking the alternator once you get engine running to
see if batteries are being charged..

John

Vega 1447 Breakaway

Chris Graham wrote:

albinvega1865 · Aug 10, 2007

Hi Folks!

I just checked the wiring schematic from the Volvo MD6A Shop Manual...and I find these extremely confusing to decipher...however...could my problem be the Charging Regulator? If so....is this a bad problem?

Chris
Steve Birch steve@... wrote: Hi Chris

Sounds like the combined regulator/solenoid. WHat happens is the
contacts have become pitted and need cleaning, perhaps check the gap as
well (may need closing a bit - Trial and error).

Not a big problem I'm sure. To check it out you can short across the
contactor terminals (2 really big ones) and that should turn the engine
over, be careful and dont get near the flywheel etc!!

Cheers

Steve B

groundhogyh · Aug 10, 2007

You may also try substituting batteries with a known good one.

Also, you can get your car jumper cables and maybe bypass some of the wiring in question? (might be tough getting those big clips into those small spaces....big sparks..). But you get the idea. Maybe use some other type of large battery connections.

Anyway, these things may help you focus in on the what area the the is problem and what area it isn't.

roy

txsailcouple · Aug 10, 2007

A good system with a well charged battery should read closer to 13.5 to 14.0 Volts. If you're only getting a bit more than 12 V I'd say try the substitution method with a better battery. If you have a battery with separate cell caps you can check from one cell to the next by dipping your voltage probes in adjacent holes and comparing the readings. If one cell is lower than the others it will inhibit the overall current flow since the cells are in series.
John D
Southern Comfort Too
Clear Lake TX

SVFlyAway · Aug 10, 2007

You might consider that a battery with a 12.0 volt charge is just a little
over 50% charged. If it has been sitting, the voltage will also be higher
(false reading) and the real load voltage much lower. A charged 12 volt
battery is 12.9 or above. Bottom-line, a battery with a 12.0 reading might
not be enough to engage the solenoid and turn the engine over. What you
might do is to put the multi-meter across the battery while cranking the
engine. This will tell you if the battery can handle any kind of load. It
should drop, but not below a little over 12 volts. A battery at 11.5 volts
is basically dead. Also corroded terminals and bad wiring will cause voltage
to drop considerably.

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of groundhog
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 8:08 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] More Engine Woes...Check the battery?

You may also try substituting batteries with a known good one.

Also, you can get your car jumper cables and maybe bypass some of the wiring
in question? (might be tough getting those big clips into those small
spaces....big sparks..). But you get the idea. Maybe use some other type of
large battery connections.

Anyway, these things may help you focus in on the what area the the is
problem and what area it isn't.

roy

albinvega1865 · Aug 13, 2007

Thanks John and Carol!
Great suggestions!!!!
Chris

John & Carol txsailcouple@... wrote: A good system with a well charged battery should read closer to 13.5 to 14.0 Volts. If you're only getting a bit more than 12 V I'd say try the substitution method with a better battery. If you have a battery with separate cell caps you can check from one cell to the next by dipping your voltage probes in adjacent holes and comparing the readings. If one cell is lower than the others it will inhibit the overall current flow since the cells are in series.
John D
Southern Comfort Too
Clear Lake TX