Moving on to my next set of questions!!! The boat got launched, Sunday was her first sail. And a nasty day too, 15-20kts, 3-5ft seas. Handles the wind fine, was single handed, so I kept off the wind mostly. I was pretty busy. Biggest complaint is all the weather helm. Could not let go of the tiller for a second. Not that it was snapping into the wind, but constant tugging no matter how far off the wind I went. Noticed that the rudder is not staying completely down. I changed to a new line when re-rigging. But the floating characteristic of the rudder and movement underway, make it kick out about 4-6 inches. How do I keep it fully down? Is there enough room to add another eye at the top of the rudder to get better tension on it? I'll bet when I look in there I'll see that the eye is straight up to the sheave, with no chance to put more tension on the line to hold the rudder down. I'd really rather not drill for making a pin. How do single handers manage the jib sheets when under way? Tending the leward jib winch doesn't seem very practical. I tried using the leward winch as a turning post, then across the boat to the windward winch, where I'm sitting and cleating it there. Sure makes for a messy cockpit. Thought I had done a good job of moving the mast forward by extending the backstay turnbuckles all the way out And tightening up on the forstay. Now that it's in the water, I see it didn't help at all. Still pretty raked. I'll find some sort of shackle to experiment with extending the backstay. Suppose I can only go forward so far before I run out of forstay turnbuckle adjustment.
Weather Helm
- Thread starter TallyClassic
- Start date
- Status
If I remember right
It's just a little pad eye screwed to the top of the rudder. I never have problems with it staying down, though. I have a nice 1/2" double braid line, lead around the fairlead and then up to a cam cleat that can pop under load. My biggest problem is the pivot bolt loosening and getting side-to-side "play" Once you have the rudder held down, a good way to address the weather helm is to really crank on the backstay..you do know that the backstay on this boat does NOT set the mast rake. The forestay and lowers set the mast in palce, like a tripod. The uppers give you your pre-bend and stiffen the top of the mast side-to-side. The backstay bends the mast like a bow for sail shaping. when it's windy out, I tighten my backstay a lot, and sheet the main all the way down. Use the traveler (do you have one??) to control the main, and keep it as flat as possible. Keep your jib powered up, and reef the main first to keep things balanced!
It's just a little pad eye screwed to the top of the rudder. I never have problems with it staying down, though. I have a nice 1/2" double braid line, lead around the fairlead and then up to a cam cleat that can pop under load. My biggest problem is the pivot bolt loosening and getting side-to-side "play" Once you have the rudder held down, a good way to address the weather helm is to really crank on the backstay..you do know that the backstay on this boat does NOT set the mast rake. The forestay and lowers set the mast in palce, like a tripod. The uppers give you your pre-bend and stiffen the top of the mast side-to-side. The backstay bends the mast like a bow for sail shaping. when it's windy out, I tighten my backstay a lot, and sheet the main all the way down. Use the traveler (do you have one??) to control the main, and keep it as flat as possible. Keep your jib powered up, and reef the main first to keep things balanced!
I may make a pin next year
But Ive ready everything from that to using a bungee cord to hold the rudder in. But I think Pete's said in the past and I agree from experience nothing beats weather helm better than a balanced sail plan. I don't find that the rudder or rake have as much impact on helm as you might believe, though I'm sure it helps a little. Plus with that extra tall mast (I have a good three feet on the Rhodes 22 that ties up down from me) the prebend is always going to have it pointed aft anyway. Not sure how far you want to go to try to elimate the rake, as having it can help you point higher. The cockpit will get messy on a busy day. I'm surprised by how much more room the Rhodes has in its cockpit despite being a foot shorter in length. But the narrow cockpit does have one advantage: When tacking I can just flick the sheet out of the jam cleat, let the wind carry the jib to the other side of the boat, and with a few loops around my fist I can put my foot across on the combing on the other side and haul on the lee sheet for all I'm worth, cleat it, without having to take a hand off the tiller. Once done I can tighten it with the winch if I need to at my leisure
But Ive ready everything from that to using a bungee cord to hold the rudder in. But I think Pete's said in the past and I agree from experience nothing beats weather helm better than a balanced sail plan. I don't find that the rudder or rake have as much impact on helm as you might believe, though I'm sure it helps a little. Plus with that extra tall mast (I have a good three feet on the Rhodes 22 that ties up down from me) the prebend is always going to have it pointed aft anyway. Not sure how far you want to go to try to elimate the rake, as having it can help you point higher. The cockpit will get messy on a busy day. I'm surprised by how much more room the Rhodes has in its cockpit despite being a foot shorter in length. But the narrow cockpit does have one advantage: When tacking I can just flick the sheet out of the jam cleat, let the wind carry the jib to the other side of the boat, and with a few loops around my fist I can put my foot across on the combing on the other side and haul on the lee sheet for all I'm worth, cleat it, without having to take a hand off the tiller. Once done I can tighten it with the winch if I need to at my leisure
another
The strips of teak in the cockpit, in front of the angles on the seats. is nice to remove. When heeled over those angled cutouts are PERFECT footrests with some non-skip tape.
The strips of teak in the cockpit, in front of the angles on the seats. is nice to remove. When heeled over those angled cutouts are PERFECT footrests with some non-skip tape.
I put a pin in my rudder
just recently and I am very happy with the handling improvement. I actually used a 3" bolt with fender washers and a lock nut. I wouldn't say that it improved the weather helm but it did take a lot of the "play" out to make a tighter, more responsive tiller. I read recently that without the pin the rudder will tend to kick up, especially when you get hit with a gust, and that makes handling more difficult. With the pin you can very easily correct your course with no more effort than normal. One tip I learned for single handing is to stand up and put the tiller between your legs when tacking/jibing. This leaves both hands free to deal with the jib sheets. I also installed a tiller tamer which really helps when you need to turn loose of the tiller for a few seconds. I don't know that adjusting your stays will really have much effect on the weather helm. I think it's just something we have to deal with on smaller boats. Wes
just recently and I am very happy with the handling improvement. I actually used a 3" bolt with fender washers and a lock nut. I wouldn't say that it improved the weather helm but it did take a lot of the "play" out to make a tighter, more responsive tiller. I read recently that without the pin the rudder will tend to kick up, especially when you get hit with a gust, and that makes handling more difficult. With the pin you can very easily correct your course with no more effort than normal. One tip I learned for single handing is to stand up and put the tiller between your legs when tacking/jibing. This leaves both hands free to deal with the jib sheets. I also installed a tiller tamer which really helps when you need to turn loose of the tiller for a few seconds. I don't know that adjusting your stays will really have much effect on the weather helm. I think it's just something we have to deal with on smaller boats. Wes
rudder advice
Yes I do have a traveller on the boat but no adjustable backstay. I've been told from others that I should just pin the rudder down, something that would break when the rudder touches first. We're in a pretty shallow area of the Panhandle. Does anyone know if the top of the rudder is solid fiberglass or the same floating foam/balsa? Would have to be sure to seal the hole if I drill.
Yes I do have a traveller on the boat but no adjustable backstay. I've been told from others that I should just pin the rudder down, something that would break when the rudder touches first. We're in a pretty shallow area of the Panhandle. Does anyone know if the top of the rudder is solid fiberglass or the same floating foam/balsa? Would have to be sure to seal the hole if I drill.
Let go of the tiller !
When I moved from a Catalina 22 to the Hunter 260 I insisted on a helm just for that reason. I wanted to be able to let go. Its a rare small boat that is balanced enough to hold a course with the rudder free. The traditional way to secure a tiller is to run lines port and starboard. As Brian stated, Hunters like a full jib. De-power the main. If you flatten the jib to take the power out you can't point enough to beat into the wind.
When I moved from a Catalina 22 to the Hunter 260 I insisted on a helm just for that reason. I wanted to be able to let go. Its a rare small boat that is balanced enough to hold a course with the rudder free. The traditional way to secure a tiller is to run lines port and starboard. As Brian stated, Hunters like a full jib. De-power the main. If you flatten the jib to take the power out you can't point enough to beat into the wind.
rudder kick
just got back from sailing in similar conditions in my h23. Yes there always is alot of weather helm, one answer to it is to upgrade to a better tiller/rudder form chandlery but that 600 dollars! so i put up with it. Now as the "floating" of the rudder i dont have a problem. I replaced my clam cleat and added a low stretch nice big piece of line and dont have a problem maybe an 1" or 2" if i scrap bottom but thats it! Hope it helps! Also the mast is supposed to raked in this boat alot! i thought it was weird too but when i had the rigger come instal my roller fuller he said no it is right its the design of the boat! try tighting it to help weather helm and go faster up wind! loosen it down wind! -jeff Sweet Trade
just got back from sailing in similar conditions in my h23. Yes there always is alot of weather helm, one answer to it is to upgrade to a better tiller/rudder form chandlery but that 600 dollars! so i put up with it. Now as the "floating" of the rudder i dont have a problem. I replaced my clam cleat and added a low stretch nice big piece of line and dont have a problem maybe an 1" or 2" if i scrap bottom but thats it! Hope it helps! Also the mast is supposed to raked in this boat alot! i thought it was weird too but when i had the rigger come instal my roller fuller he said no it is right its the design of the boat! try tighting it to help weather helm and go faster up wind! loosen it down wind! -jeff Sweet Trade
- Status