This is our first year sailing and thanks to a lot of help (especially from this site) we have come along way, however when the wind hits 15 knots and or we approach 20 degrees of heel, the weather helm gets to be, well "unsettleing." (Did you ever notice that the 376/380 have almost as much sail area as the 410/420 and lots more than the 340) In addition to letting out the sails to spill air (OK up to a point) are there any other ideas to improve control before we go to the first reef. How about changing the position of the traveler (up untill now we keep it centered) or moving the the jib cars? I'll post more information on our first years experience in the coming weeks. Russell Egge
- Status
Russell..some help...
To reduce weather helm, first let out your main sheet a bit to depower the sail. Don't let it out too far or the sail will flog. If that doesn't help, then move the traveler to leeward until the helm is comfortable or the traveler reaches the end of the track. If you get to the end of the track and are still overpowered, THEN it's time to reef. Increased backstay tension when going upwind will also help with weather helm. Genoa cars should be moved forward in choppy seas and aft in flatter seas mainly to increase speed. This will not affect weather helm. By the way, 20 degrees of angle going upwind is probably a touch greater than optimal, but not unreasonable and a LONG way from being dangerous. My guess, based on my H45 and other boats, is that your optimal angle is about 15 degrees or so. Heeling is initially both physically and psychologically uncomfortable, but you will get used to it. Hope this helps. MC
To reduce weather helm, first let out your main sheet a bit to depower the sail. Don't let it out too far or the sail will flog. If that doesn't help, then move the traveler to leeward until the helm is comfortable or the traveler reaches the end of the track. If you get to the end of the track and are still overpowered, THEN it's time to reef. Increased backstay tension when going upwind will also help with weather helm. Genoa cars should be moved forward in choppy seas and aft in flatter seas mainly to increase speed. This will not affect weather helm. By the way, 20 degrees of angle going upwind is probably a touch greater than optimal, but not unreasonable and a LONG way from being dangerous. My guess, based on my H45 and other boats, is that your optimal angle is about 15 degrees or so. Heeling is initially both physically and psychologically uncomfortable, but you will get used to it. Hope this helps. MC
Flat is faster
Russell, These modern hulls are faster through the water when flat. You will actually accelerate when you reef. The next time the winds blowing 15-16 and you are pointing try this and you'll see; head up to the wind and drop in one reef, bear of to same heading and check your knot meter. On our 380 it reads like this. Before reef 6.6k 20 degrees of heel, after reef 6.7 - 6.8 k, 15 degrees of heel. Flatter through the water in faster and more comfortable. Good luck, an remember to shake out the reef when running or your boat speed will die! Bob
Russell, These modern hulls are faster through the water when flat. You will actually accelerate when you reef. The next time the winds blowing 15-16 and you are pointing try this and you'll see; head up to the wind and drop in one reef, bear of to same heading and check your knot meter. On our 380 it reads like this. Before reef 6.6k 20 degrees of heel, after reef 6.7 - 6.8 k, 15 degrees of heel. Flatter through the water in faster and more comfortable. Good luck, an remember to shake out the reef when running or your boat speed will die! Bob
Move your Traveler down 1st
All the previous comments are correct especially Flatter is Better, (sounds like a car commercial). One comment on the traveller though. Keep tension on the main sheet and drop the traveller first. The main sheet tension will keep the main from flogging as much and keep better sail shape which in turn should keep you on your feet better. Also your main halyard should be very tight as well as your outhaul. All this tighting of the main moves the draft of the sail fwd which also reduces weather helm. After your traveller is down and you still need to depower let out our main sheet or bite the bullet and reef. Remember, just 5 minutes of your sails flogging in the wind can do irrepairable damage to your sails.
All the previous comments are correct especially Flatter is Better, (sounds like a car commercial). One comment on the traveller though. Keep tension on the main sheet and drop the traveller first. The main sheet tension will keep the main from flogging as much and keep better sail shape which in turn should keep you on your feet better. Also your main halyard should be very tight as well as your outhaul. All this tighting of the main moves the draft of the sail fwd which also reduces weather helm. After your traveller is down and you still need to depower let out our main sheet or bite the bullet and reef. Remember, just 5 minutes of your sails flogging in the wind can do irrepairable damage to your sails.
Tighten Backstay!!!
That's funny. How do you do that on a new Hunter? Oh I guess that isn't part of the design. Anyway... You may notice that your boat needs to reef a little earlier than other boats. That might seem like a disadvantage, but in reality it means your boat will be faster in light air since you got a higher Sail Area/Displacement ratio. I think that is good thing and a definite trend in new designs. Don't underestimate the slowing effects of weather helm. Dragging your rudder sideways through the water can't possibly be fast. Ease the traveller and reef when you need to. The ride will be more comfortable and faster.
That's funny. How do you do that on a new Hunter? Oh I guess that isn't part of the design. Anyway... You may notice that your boat needs to reef a little earlier than other boats. That might seem like a disadvantage, but in reality it means your boat will be faster in light air since you got a higher Sail Area/Displacement ratio. I think that is good thing and a definite trend in new designs. Don't underestimate the slowing effects of weather helm. Dragging your rudder sideways through the water can't possibly be fast. Ease the traveller and reef when you need to. The ride will be more comfortable and faster.
final solution
if you still have substantial weather helm after the other solutions mentioned in the posts, rake the mast forward a little by tightening the forestay....
if you still have substantial weather helm after the other solutions mentioned in the posts, rake the mast forward a little by tightening the forestay....
Sail Adjustments
It is difficult for us sailors to sometimes be less aggressive, your vessel is a sailors sailboat. With that in mind you need to know that there are enough main sail adjustment points on your rig to avoid backstay (if you even have one) and forestay (very complicated under sail) tension adjustments. These should be and can be avoided as they are risky and unnessessary, unless you are racing with a full crew and rigged in advance to facilitate the adjustments. Letting down the traveler and sailing these boats between 15 to 20 degrees of heal is sound advice (they do go faster.) Here's some additional thoughts that might help you enjoy your boat more. The first thing you must keep in mind is that a sail is a wing and subject to the same physical forces that allow airplanes to fly. You boat is not blown by the wind, as the romantics would have you believe, but drawn into a low pressure system created on the lee of your sail. What creats this low is sail shape. Picture your sail as if you were at the mast head looking towards the deck. The fuller the curve the greater the lift, the flatter the sail the lesser the lift. When the wind is pipping make sure your halyard is tight, your topping lift is loose, the boom vang is tight and the main sheet is tight this flattens the sail reducing ("lift") now adjust your traveler to create the proper angle to the apparent wind. Let out the traveler until the sail begins to luff then bring it up until it stops. Once all of that is done and you are still uncomfortable with the handling put in a reef. We sometimes reef before we leave the dock if the wind is over 15 knots. Why go through the drill at sea? When you have the shape correct and reefed as conditions dictate, the boat will be in control with the proper amount of weather helm and you will gain the confidence of knowing how to handle your boat in different conditions. We have been out with our 37.5 S/V DAWN in 20+ knots reefed and flat, passing Island Packet yatchs like they were standing still, with three sails set and full. Its not about how much sail you have up its optimizing sail area and shape to the conditions. You'll feel the difference when you learn what makes you boat go fast and safe, its very rewarding.
It is difficult for us sailors to sometimes be less aggressive, your vessel is a sailors sailboat. With that in mind you need to know that there are enough main sail adjustment points on your rig to avoid backstay (if you even have one) and forestay (very complicated under sail) tension adjustments. These should be and can be avoided as they are risky and unnessessary, unless you are racing with a full crew and rigged in advance to facilitate the adjustments. Letting down the traveler and sailing these boats between 15 to 20 degrees of heal is sound advice (they do go faster.) Here's some additional thoughts that might help you enjoy your boat more. The first thing you must keep in mind is that a sail is a wing and subject to the same physical forces that allow airplanes to fly. You boat is not blown by the wind, as the romantics would have you believe, but drawn into a low pressure system created on the lee of your sail. What creats this low is sail shape. Picture your sail as if you were at the mast head looking towards the deck. The fuller the curve the greater the lift, the flatter the sail the lesser the lift. When the wind is pipping make sure your halyard is tight, your topping lift is loose, the boom vang is tight and the main sheet is tight this flattens the sail reducing ("lift") now adjust your traveler to create the proper angle to the apparent wind. Let out the traveler until the sail begins to luff then bring it up until it stops. Once all of that is done and you are still uncomfortable with the handling put in a reef. We sometimes reef before we leave the dock if the wind is over 15 knots. Why go through the drill at sea? When you have the shape correct and reefed as conditions dictate, the boat will be in control with the proper amount of weather helm and you will gain the confidence of knowing how to handle your boat in different conditions. We have been out with our 37.5 S/V DAWN in 20+ knots reefed and flat, passing Island Packet yatchs like they were standing still, with three sails set and full. Its not about how much sail you have up its optimizing sail area and shape to the conditions. You'll feel the difference when you learn what makes you boat go fast and safe, its very rewarding.
More weather helm questions
I'm also fighting excess weather helm on my 430, and find that I'm carrying over 10-12 degrees of weather helm in 15-20 knots wind, feeling like the rudder will stall any minute, and I know that the rudder is producing too much drag. Problem I'm trying to solve is that the upper part of the main is on the shouds very early due to the swept back spreadders, and I'm afraid of doing damage to the battens. The traveler and the sheet has almost the same function due to the almost horizontal lay of the sheet from the attachment point on the arch to the boom end (except when the boom is sheeted in quite far). I do try to flatten the sail with the boom vang, and maybe I'm afraid to pull down the vang as much as I should (seems awful tight to me). I'd appreciate the advice of those more experienced than I, and who have managed to solve this problem. Thanks.
I'm also fighting excess weather helm on my 430, and find that I'm carrying over 10-12 degrees of weather helm in 15-20 knots wind, feeling like the rudder will stall any minute, and I know that the rudder is producing too much drag. Problem I'm trying to solve is that the upper part of the main is on the shouds very early due to the swept back spreadders, and I'm afraid of doing damage to the battens. The traveler and the sheet has almost the same function due to the almost horizontal lay of the sheet from the attachment point on the arch to the boom end (except when the boom is sheeted in quite far). I do try to flatten the sail with the boom vang, and maybe I'm afraid to pull down the vang as much as I should (seems awful tight to me). I'd appreciate the advice of those more experienced than I, and who have managed to solve this problem. Thanks.
George...
In the conditions you have described, how much heel angle do you have? 10-12 degrees of weather helm is not all that much given the wind strength you mentioned. It sounds as though you need to find a way to depower the main even more - you will not hurt the battens unless they are actually banging on the spreaders. Vang adjustments will only get you so far but you may need to tighten it even more than you already are doing - you won't break anything, but it may not help all that much either. Backstay tension will also help to some extent. The big thing is to get that main depowered anyway you reasonably can. Finally, when in doubt, reef. An old saying goes something like this: "The time to reef is when you first begin thinking about reefing" Hope this helps. MC
In the conditions you have described, how much heel angle do you have? 10-12 degrees of weather helm is not all that much given the wind strength you mentioned. It sounds as though you need to find a way to depower the main even more - you will not hurt the battens unless they are actually banging on the spreaders. Vang adjustments will only get you so far but you may need to tighten it even more than you already are doing - you won't break anything, but it may not help all that much either. Backstay tension will also help to some extent. The big thing is to get that main depowered anyway you reasonably can. Finally, when in doubt, reef. An old saying goes something like this: "The time to reef is when you first begin thinking about reefing" Hope this helps. MC
Don't forget the jib!
Don't forget the jin in this discussion of weather helm. Move the cars as far aft as possible and, repeating what others have said, flatten the sail as much as possible with tension from the sheet. With the cars drawn full aft, you will spill a little air from the top of the sail and have a very flat foresail. Follow the same with the main, depowering it with sheet tension, tight outhaul and loose topping lift and tight vang. This works for us on our 35.5.
Don't forget the jin in this discussion of weather helm. Move the cars as far aft as possible and, repeating what others have said, flatten the sail as much as possible with tension from the sheet. With the cars drawn full aft, you will spill a little air from the top of the sail and have a very flat foresail. Follow the same with the main, depowering it with sheet tension, tight outhaul and loose topping lift and tight vang. This works for us on our 35.5.
Depowered jib?
I would think if you want to reduce weather helm, you would want your jib fully powered (not flat and a more vertical line to the car). Whereas the main creates weather helm, in my boat (35) the jib does not and in fact make the helm go more to lee.
I would think if you want to reduce weather helm, you would want your jib fully powered (not flat and a more vertical line to the car). Whereas the main creates weather helm, in my boat (35) the jib does not and in fact make the helm go more to lee.
Jib vs. weather helm
I think the benefit of depowering the jib is that it reduces the healing force. The heal of the boat has as much to do with weather helm as the balance of the sails. Particularly on a boat with a very wide stern. Part of flat is faster mantra. An example... Let's say the boat is perfectly balanced in 10 knots of wind with 10 degrees of heel. Now increase the wind to 20 knots. The boat heels more and weather helm increases. Why does it increase? You've got the same sail plan as you had 10 knots. So... The heeling is what changed and that is what is creating the weather helm. Carry this further... The 10 knot scenario is the same. This time the wind increase to 20 knots, but you flatten sails, drop traveller, move jib cars aft, etc... Let's say by doing this you are able to keep the heel to 10 degrees. Your weather helm is going to be much the same as in 10 knots. This is somewhat idealistic, but reasonable. Obviously, if you just rolled up the jib in 20 knots you could keep the heel to 10 degrees and the weather helm would go to hell, but if you keep the original sail plan and keep the heel the same, the weather helm will remain roughly the same as well. That's as good as I can explain it... Now move those cars aft!!!
I think the benefit of depowering the jib is that it reduces the healing force. The heal of the boat has as much to do with weather helm as the balance of the sails. Particularly on a boat with a very wide stern. Part of flat is faster mantra. An example... Let's say the boat is perfectly balanced in 10 knots of wind with 10 degrees of heel. Now increase the wind to 20 knots. The boat heels more and weather helm increases. Why does it increase? You've got the same sail plan as you had 10 knots. So... The heeling is what changed and that is what is creating the weather helm. Carry this further... The 10 knot scenario is the same. This time the wind increase to 20 knots, but you flatten sails, drop traveller, move jib cars aft, etc... Let's say by doing this you are able to keep the heel to 10 degrees. Your weather helm is going to be much the same as in 10 knots. This is somewhat idealistic, but reasonable. Obviously, if you just rolled up the jib in 20 knots you could keep the heel to 10 degrees and the weather helm would go to hell, but if you keep the original sail plan and keep the heel the same, the weather helm will remain roughly the same as well. That's as good as I can explain it... Now move those cars aft!!!
Depowering the jib ????
Why would you want to depower the jib? You may reduce heel angle, but it won't do a thing for weather helm. Weather helm is the result of the main attempting to turn the boat INTO the wind - the jib actually counteracts this. That is one reason why mains have reef points and jibs don't. MC
Why would you want to depower the jib? You may reduce heel angle, but it won't do a thing for weather helm. Weather helm is the result of the main attempting to turn the boat INTO the wind - the jib actually counteracts this. That is one reason why mains have reef points and jibs don't. MC
reduced heel
reducing the heel will reduce weather helm, which comes as a result of the center of effort being out of vertical line with the center of drag. the downside of reducing heel by depowering the jib is: (1) as M.C. pointed out, the rig becomes unbalanced, and (2) the top 1/4 of the jib leach is luffing when the jib is depowered by moving the fairleads aft. over time, this wears the sail unevenly, top to bottom, especially when the jib is overpowered. other than as a short-term adjustment, this is a nasty way to treat your sails. (BY the same token, this is why it is better to de-power the main via reefing rather than via loosening the traveller.) In terms of keeping your sails in the best shape possible--double meaning intended here, in terms of "shape"--you depower the main by reefing and depower a headsail by changing to a smaller sail. period. other methods may be easier on the crew, but not on the sails.
reducing the heel will reduce weather helm, which comes as a result of the center of effort being out of vertical line with the center of drag. the downside of reducing heel by depowering the jib is: (1) as M.C. pointed out, the rig becomes unbalanced, and (2) the top 1/4 of the jib leach is luffing when the jib is depowered by moving the fairleads aft. over time, this wears the sail unevenly, top to bottom, especially when the jib is overpowered. other than as a short-term adjustment, this is a nasty way to treat your sails. (BY the same token, this is why it is better to de-power the main via reefing rather than via loosening the traveller.) In terms of keeping your sails in the best shape possible--double meaning intended here, in terms of "shape"--you depower the main by reefing and depower a headsail by changing to a smaller sail. period. other methods may be easier on the crew, but not on the sails.
Depowering 376
I also have a 376. According to the specs on this boat the optimal heel angle is 15 degrees. Keep in mind that this sail plan features a huge main which makes it necessary to reef in a little lighter winds than you might expect. I usually have to reef somewhere between 15-18 knots to be comfortable and keep the boat under control. Yes, you can play with your sail shape and try to flatten it as well as moving the jib cars as far aft as possible but why fight it. You'll go faster and be much more comfortable with a reef in. Considering the ease of putting a reef in on the 376 rig this is the best option. Remember the old adage..."When in doubt, reef her!"
I also have a 376. According to the specs on this boat the optimal heel angle is 15 degrees. Keep in mind that this sail plan features a huge main which makes it necessary to reef in a little lighter winds than you might expect. I usually have to reef somewhere between 15-18 knots to be comfortable and keep the boat under control. Yes, you can play with your sail shape and try to flatten it as well as moving the jib cars as far aft as possible but why fight it. You'll go faster and be much more comfortable with a reef in. Considering the ease of putting a reef in on the 376 rig this is the best option. Remember the old adage..."When in doubt, reef her!"
Faith Heelers!
To all heelers: This is a one of the best threads I've seen on the HOW. Of course, having a 376 sparks my own interest to a heightened level. Even the experts who do not agree entirely seem to have great points. From my own experience, reducing weather helm is a multi task. I am sure there are twenty or more things to do. The most obvious to me are. 1) move you center of effort forward - on a stock rigged 376 we are somewhat limited, mostly to sail adjustments 2) move your center lateral resistance aft - movable weight 3) Alter the ratio between Center of effort and center of lateral resistance - boat speed, heel angle, jib and main adjustments, movable weight I think the 3rd item is too frequently ignored. The suggestion to depower the jib would seem to defeat the task of moving the center of effort forward, however, heal angle and boat speed can impact the center of lateral ( and some gyro) resistance which will seemingly increase weather helm. My own conslusion is the same usual. When you think you have the only right idea and someone else is wrong, the answer is usually some of both and neither of all ! Nice thread overall, very informative. Good to hear from other H376er's et al. respectfully humble, Mike DiMario Media, Pa s/v Serenity H376
To all heelers: This is a one of the best threads I've seen on the HOW. Of course, having a 376 sparks my own interest to a heightened level. Even the experts who do not agree entirely seem to have great points. From my own experience, reducing weather helm is a multi task. I am sure there are twenty or more things to do. The most obvious to me are. 1) move you center of effort forward - on a stock rigged 376 we are somewhat limited, mostly to sail adjustments 2) move your center lateral resistance aft - movable weight 3) Alter the ratio between Center of effort and center of lateral resistance - boat speed, heel angle, jib and main adjustments, movable weight I think the 3rd item is too frequently ignored. The suggestion to depower the jib would seem to defeat the task of moving the center of effort forward, however, heal angle and boat speed can impact the center of lateral ( and some gyro) resistance which will seemingly increase weather helm. My own conslusion is the same usual. When you think you have the only right idea and someone else is wrong, the answer is usually some of both and neither of all ! Nice thread overall, very informative. Good to hear from other H376er's et al. respectfully humble, Mike DiMario Media, Pa s/v Serenity H376
Whether weather helm or not....
As John Farnsworth points out, weather/lee helm is the result of a turning moment caused by misalignment of the wind induced center of effort on the sail plan, and the hydrodynamic center of drag of the hull/keel/rudder. Both will be affected by the angle of heel. If the center of effort is aft of the center of drag, the turning moment will be to windward and if forward, to the leeward side (lee helm). The trick to a balanced boat is to adjust the sailplan to control the center of effort, hence flattening the main, easing the traveller, reefing etc. I don't understand the jib depowering argument. My good old '83 H34 has a major weather helm problem. I have had all sorts of "experts" - including sailmakers,and an olympic sailor - aboard and nobody has been able to tame the beast above about 20 knots. We do it all by the book but we continue to drag that rudder like a barn door through the water, to the point that it cavitates, looses grip and we round-up (even though I had the Hunter upgrade to a larger rudder). I reef at about 15 knots apparent. The best thing on my boat seems to be to drop the main completely - she calms right down under jib alone and becomes balanced. Something's wrong... Derek
As John Farnsworth points out, weather/lee helm is the result of a turning moment caused by misalignment of the wind induced center of effort on the sail plan, and the hydrodynamic center of drag of the hull/keel/rudder. Both will be affected by the angle of heel. If the center of effort is aft of the center of drag, the turning moment will be to windward and if forward, to the leeward side (lee helm). The trick to a balanced boat is to adjust the sailplan to control the center of effort, hence flattening the main, easing the traveller, reefing etc. I don't understand the jib depowering argument. My good old '83 H34 has a major weather helm problem. I have had all sorts of "experts" - including sailmakers,and an olympic sailor - aboard and nobody has been able to tame the beast above about 20 knots. We do it all by the book but we continue to drag that rudder like a barn door through the water, to the point that it cavitates, looses grip and we round-up (even though I had the Hunter upgrade to a larger rudder). I reef at about 15 knots apparent. The best thing on my boat seems to be to drop the main completely - she calms right down under jib alone and becomes balanced. Something's wrong... Derek
40.5 solution
I purchased a miter cut 155 Genoa for my 40.5 that has the foam in the luff for more effective reefing by maintaining some of the desired shape and reducing wrinkles. The 40.5 came with the Profurl 35M roller furling/reefing system. I used the 155 in winds of +40 knots from the N while crossing from Catalina to Long Beach in January. The Genoa was ‘reefed’ to about 50 and the main had the second reef in. In 17’ NW swells and 5’ N seas, we sailed NE at 7.5+ knots with 15 deg. of heel. There was surprisingly very little weather helm and Debbie steered Yaga for awhile to gain some heavy weather experience. The Genoa lead blocks were adjusted to maintain an even luff. The main was reefed at maximum tension in both the reefing control line and the halyard. This is very important to get a flat sail and to minimize wear and tear. To get a tight control line you might have to go to the mast to help tension the line. You need pull on it where it comes out of the boom (not easy in 40 knot winds but necessary) as it is being tightened at the cockpit. The traveller was leeward and the sheet & vang down hard. BTW, a hard vang also keeps the main from moving up & down against the shrouds and causing chafing when off the wind. I have not seen any signs of chafing from the spreaders, maybe it’s the spreader design. I do a lot of wing on wing downwind with the main eased all the way to the spreaders using the vang as a prevented (boom does not move). Since then, the 155 Genoa has always been on and I am reefing it all the time. The Genoa’s shape is good from 50 up to 155. So as weather helm & heeling increase, I put a reef in the main (12-16 kts), followed by reefing the Genoa up to 100 (16-21 kts), then a second reef in the main (21-25 kts), followed by reefing the Genoa up to 50 (25-40 kts) and then fully reefed main alone. Not sure how long to keep up a doubled reefed main with winds above 50. During a recent white squall with gusts to 60, I started the motor and dropped the sail! Bottom line, this really seems to work on the 40.5 and the Profurl can handle the reefing. You may need to run the control line to the port halyard winch in heavy weather for better control. Thanks to all for the great info on weather helm. Can’t wait to try some of it out! Mickey
I purchased a miter cut 155 Genoa for my 40.5 that has the foam in the luff for more effective reefing by maintaining some of the desired shape and reducing wrinkles. The 40.5 came with the Profurl 35M roller furling/reefing system. I used the 155 in winds of +40 knots from the N while crossing from Catalina to Long Beach in January. The Genoa was ‘reefed’ to about 50 and the main had the second reef in. In 17’ NW swells and 5’ N seas, we sailed NE at 7.5+ knots with 15 deg. of heel. There was surprisingly very little weather helm and Debbie steered Yaga for awhile to gain some heavy weather experience. The Genoa lead blocks were adjusted to maintain an even luff. The main was reefed at maximum tension in both the reefing control line and the halyard. This is very important to get a flat sail and to minimize wear and tear. To get a tight control line you might have to go to the mast to help tension the line. You need pull on it where it comes out of the boom (not easy in 40 knot winds but necessary) as it is being tightened at the cockpit. The traveller was leeward and the sheet & vang down hard. BTW, a hard vang also keeps the main from moving up & down against the shrouds and causing chafing when off the wind. I have not seen any signs of chafing from the spreaders, maybe it’s the spreader design. I do a lot of wing on wing downwind with the main eased all the way to the spreaders using the vang as a prevented (boom does not move). Since then, the 155 Genoa has always been on and I am reefing it all the time. The Genoa’s shape is good from 50 up to 155. So as weather helm & heeling increase, I put a reef in the main (12-16 kts), followed by reefing the Genoa up to 100 (16-21 kts), then a second reef in the main (21-25 kts), followed by reefing the Genoa up to 50 (25-40 kts) and then fully reefed main alone. Not sure how long to keep up a doubled reefed main with winds above 50. During a recent white squall with gusts to 60, I started the motor and dropped the sail! Bottom line, this really seems to work on the 40.5 and the Profurl can handle the reefing. You may need to run the control line to the port halyard winch in heavy weather for better control. Thanks to all for the great info on weather helm. Can’t wait to try some of it out! Mickey
Moving the jib again...
I'm open to opposition on this, but I think the jib lead argument is a very good one. First of all, with proper leach line tension it isn't necessary to flog either jib or main when the sail is twisted off. Second point and I think a point that is being overlooked is that the 376 does not have excessive weather helm right from the get go. It is probably well balanced in 10 knots with full sail. To me that implies a balanced sail plan where the CLR is matched with CE. Add 10 knots of breeze, but keep the same sail plan. Weather helm goes up right? Why? Because the boat heels more! How can you correct this? One way (and this only works to a certain wind speed, maybe its 15, or 17, or 20, depends on the boat), but one way is to depower both the main and the jib. By doing this the CE remains in the same place as in 10 knots. Depowering also reduces heel which brings the CLR back to that balanced point you had at 10 knots. Disagreement? My point... Assuming the boat was well designed with a balance sail plan around 10 knots, I maintain that a boat will sail faster in 20 knots with full sail and moderate 10-15 degree heel (if this can be achieved) than any other configuration in 20 knots. All other possibilities require either reducing sail or counteracting the effects of heel on the CLR with a corresponding change in CE which is the equivalent of two slow changes making a balanced (but slow) helm. Ever watched an America's boat going upwind. The trimmer continuously adjust the jib car position with a hydraulic lever. Why do they do this? I THINK I know the reason.
I'm open to opposition on this, but I think the jib lead argument is a very good one. First of all, with proper leach line tension it isn't necessary to flog either jib or main when the sail is twisted off. Second point and I think a point that is being overlooked is that the 376 does not have excessive weather helm right from the get go. It is probably well balanced in 10 knots with full sail. To me that implies a balanced sail plan where the CLR is matched with CE. Add 10 knots of breeze, but keep the same sail plan. Weather helm goes up right? Why? Because the boat heels more! How can you correct this? One way (and this only works to a certain wind speed, maybe its 15, or 17, or 20, depends on the boat), but one way is to depower both the main and the jib. By doing this the CE remains in the same place as in 10 knots. Depowering also reduces heel which brings the CLR back to that balanced point you had at 10 knots. Disagreement? My point... Assuming the boat was well designed with a balance sail plan around 10 knots, I maintain that a boat will sail faster in 20 knots with full sail and moderate 10-15 degree heel (if this can be achieved) than any other configuration in 20 knots. All other possibilities require either reducing sail or counteracting the effects of heel on the CLR with a corresponding change in CE which is the equivalent of two slow changes making a balanced (but slow) helm. Ever watched an America's boat going upwind. The trimmer continuously adjust the jib car position with a hydraulic lever. Why do they do this? I THINK I know the reason.
Balance
Great disscusion! This is what the forum was made for. Since its all been said before, my submission is really a "vote" on solutions offered. Weather helm can be reduced by reducing heel, moving the center of resistance aft, or moving the center of effort forward. Many methods have been suggested for how to do these things -- move weight aft, reef sails (main first and most), put the traveller down and flatten the main, etc. The only idea that seems not too helpful is depowering the jib. That might be counter-productive.
Great disscusion! This is what the forum was made for. Since its all been said before, my submission is really a "vote" on solutions offered. Weather helm can be reduced by reducing heel, moving the center of resistance aft, or moving the center of effort forward. Many methods have been suggested for how to do these things -- move weight aft, reef sails (main first and most), put the traveller down and flatten the main, etc. The only idea that seems not too helpful is depowering the jib. That might be counter-productive.
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