Weather helm - part1

[Don Guillette]

We are discussing mast rack, heeling and weather helm. In order to deal with those subjects it helps to have a little background as to what they are about.Some sailors think that only the rudder turns the boat. It does but so does the mainsail although not as well or quickly as the rudder. The more you tighten the leech of the main (eliminating twist) the more the wind turns the sail. This turning of the wind is like turning the rudder. So sail shape contributes to weather helm. A lot of sailors don’t like weather helm but there is nothing wrong with weather helm. In fact, it is a good thing especially in light wind. Heavy wind is a different story. Weather helm in heavy wind can be a pain.How much weather helm is desirable? When sailing upwind about 3 degrees to 5 degrees is just about right. Why is that? I don’t know the scientific answer but experience has shown that at those degrees the lift from the rudder exactly compliments the lift from the keel and most boats sail best. You might be able to push it to 7 degrees but beyond 10 degrees is too much because now the rudder is creating too much drag.How do you measure weather helm rudder degrees? Simple, just center your rudder and put a piece of tape at the top of the wheel. Now we want to see whether you or your boat has a weather helm problem. Next time your out sailing closehauled and the wind is about 5 knots, take your hands off the wheel and see what happens. If everything is in balance the boat should almost sail straight and slowly head into the wind. Only the slightest bit of rudder is necessary to bring it back to a straight line. At 10 to 12 knots of wind do the same thing and if everything is right only about 3 to 4 degrees of rudder will be necessary to bring it back to a straight line. In 14 to 16 knots of wind, it will take about 5 degrees to bring it back to a straight line. If your boat performs as above your boat does not have a weather helm problem. If it does not perform as above it is the fault of the skipper and the trimmers.

 

[ChuckThomas]

i have a question

Having been sailing only a few years, and not ever having an experienced sailor on board before, how close to the wind should a normal cruising boat sail? I have a 1981 H33 that is in my limitted experience a 'happy' boat. She is extremely easy to balance. So much so that there are times when the auto will go for several minutes without moving the wheel. I can get her moving relativily fast on both a reach and close hauled. About the best I can get to the wind is about forty to forty-five degrees apparent. I have read several of the posts about sail trim and have not ever really taken time to analyze the effects of the various controls. You know the old saying, if ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[ChuckThomas]

add to question

Just to add a couple more points. She has an old 150% genoa and a wore out old main. Maybe original. I would like to purchase new sails soon and retire the old to act as spares. We do not race so comfort is more appealing than speed. Thanks in advance for y'alls thoughts.

 

[Don Guillette]

Weather helm - part 2

In order to properly steer a boat you have to have 3 things working together and they are helm, sails and heel. I hate to talk about the following stuff because I don’t like the scientific part, which is boring, but we have to touch on it so everything makes sense. A boat sails on 3 axis. Picture this – run a wooden dowel from bow to stern. That axis is heel. Run another dowel from side to side. That axis is pitch. Run the 3rd dowel from the deck through the keel and that is yaw. Putting all that together means that the boat can move in 6 different direction!! Who cares about that? Anyone who wants to properly control his boat.There are 2 other elements that also come into play. The first is center of effort (CE). The second is center of lateral resistance (CLR). The CE is a point in the mainsail directly above the keel and the CLR runs through the center of the keel. What does this have to do with steering? Simply put if both CE and CLR don’t line up you have problems steering the boat. Can you change this alighment? Yes, all you have to do is rake the mast. If you rake the mast aft thus bending the line aft you’ll create weather helm. If you rake the mast forward you’ll create lee helm. It is important that you conduct the test in part 1 to see where your at from a weather helm or lee helm standpoint. If you don’t know where your at and you start raking your mast you could be making matters worse. Wind surfers use mast rake to turn their boards by moving the mast either forward or back. So it is a good thing for some. If you own a Star, Flying Dutchman, J boat or Etchell then rake away. They are designed with that purpose in mind. Telephone pole mast boats are not. When you rake that mast aft it is like moving it back on the deck and weather helm is automatically induced – remember CL and CLR!!Pre bent masts are another matter and a whole different story.Last is heeling. Why is too much heeling a bad thing? The reason is that the keel start to have a horizontal attitude rather than a vertical attitude. Over 20 degrees of heel is too much horizontal plus being very uncomfortable for everyone on board. How do we harness all these items – with proper sail trim that’s how. The thing is you can do what ever you want with your boat as long as you have some idea as to WHY your doing it.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Chuck, each boat is different, but with ours,..

she will point to about 31 degrees apparent before beginning to depower. That is based upon zero degrees being into the wind.Terry

 

[Don Guillette]

Pointing

Chuck Thomas: There are 3 terms to remember in your situation and they are pinching, pointing and footing.First, as to your question, most sailors will say that a boat will generally sail up to about 45 degrees. So you are right there. Some boats can go higher and some boats like Terry Cox in Shelter Bay, WA can only make 31 degrees. It all depends on the boat, sails, riging, condition of your bottom and so on. Most importantly, the major factor is sail trim. If it ain't right you'll never get to 100% efficiency.Most sailors and a lot of racers I know are always wanting to point higher,as if higher is better. Actually, higher isn't better when going higher becomes pinching. Pinching is just what it implies. Your squeesing the wind angle. The problem is that when pinching one is very close to a stall. Footing, on the other hand, is a point farthest off the wind but still close hauled.When you pinch and point you are sailing closer to your destination but slower.When your footing your sailing farther from your destination but sailing faster. The solution is obvious, you just split the difference and sail in the middle - maybe a little more toward pointing.Chuck, you should take the time to familiarize yourself with all the sail trim controls on the main and jib. You might be amazed at what your old sails can give you and you'd save a few bucks - for the time being.

 

[abe]

Don, really enjoy reading all this stuff...

...I know by intuition what to do....its just nice to see it in writing and understand it. thanks, abe

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Don, I'm puzzled by your comment that...

I can only make 31 degrees. Would you please elaborate? I understand what you mean by gaining some speed by not pointing quite so high or splitting the difference, but our boat seems to do quite well up to that point without the appearance of stalling, at least by my novice observation. So is footing closer to close reaching and a better point of sail into the wind?Terry

 

[Alan]

Terry

For each boat in any given sailing conditions there exists a "best" sailing angle. By sailing that angle you produce the best speed/distance progress toward the upwind mark. Sailing any higher slows the boat and gains height but the net result is a slower final time. Conversely footing off increases boat speed but you sail a greater distance. Again the net result is a slower final time. The "footing" and "pinching" are all small increments of 5 to 10 degrees.If your boat is sailing "in the groove" at 31 degrees(apparent) then you are sailing in a "true" wind of about 45 degrees. Race specific boats can sail in the mid to high 20's(apparent) which translates to around 40 degrees true.Hope this helps to explain Don's comment.

 

[carina]

31 sounds good to me

Carina, our '84 hunter27 with I believe the original sails averages about 35 degrees apparent; I'm still trying to work out why I have 40 & 30 degrees--hopefully it's just my anemometer zero.Leeway should also be considered when pinching. You might actually be making good way through the water but too much of that is leeway and you won't actually be heading higher. Certainly don't point too high when conditions are rough, you need the power to get through the waves.Chuck: Telltales--you need to know the flow of air over the sails. If you don't have these, install them. They will help you evaluate the condition of the sails and whether they are really in need of replacement.Don, why dumb down the explanation? CE is the combined drive of the whole sail plan and CLR is certianly affected by hull trim. Adjust the jib & change the CE; move the crew, fill up the tanks & change the CLR.Cheers, Hugh

 

[Terry Cox]

Thanks Alan and Hugh...

Say Hugh do you participate in any Milltown races? Bob Barker (Mariposa) does most weekends. John Lund (Friehet II) used to but recent injuries have put those on hold. We three and more have been cruising up north together these past three years. Great times.Terry

 

[Don Guillette]

Point 31 degrees

Tery; Where are you puzzled? I just repeated what you said to illustrate a point that some boats can't make 45 degrees. In your case you have to point the boat as high as you can. There are no differences (pointing & footing) to split. If you fell off any more you'd be reaching. The pointing, pinching and footing applies to a close hauled situation.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Don, I must be very dense...I still do not...

get your points:1. Can't make 45 degrees? My apparent wind instrument displays point of sail beginning at zero, which is head into the wind. From that point it displays point of sail in degrees to 180 whether port or starboard tack. So, are you saying that anything greater than 31 degrees apparent on our boat I'm reaching but on other boats, even up to 45 degrees apparent, it remains close hauled? 2. I have to point the boat as high as I can? If pointing the boat to 31 degrees will get me to my destination or waypoint at the best speed and shortest distance, I miss the point. I can easily change my point of sail to 45 degrees apparent, maybe gain some speed (or not), but in the end have to make a tack change to reach my destination.3. How do I know when footing on our boat changes to reaching? I'm assuming the telltales will tell me? It has to be somewhere between 31 and 45 degrees apparent. Terry

 

[carina]

Terry, we aren't in Everett Anymore

Sometimes I wish we were still there...We moved the boat up the Columbia River nearer to the Tri-Cities. Maybe we'll get back someday.Cheers, Hugh

 

[Don Guillette]

Terry Cox

Terry: Please accept my apology. I'm the one that is dense and I don't know what I was thinking. Yesterday I had a colonoscopy and the doctor told me to go home and not do any thinking as I was loopy as the day is long. Instead of taking his advise I decide to give sail trim advise!!!Anyway,If you can sail up to 31 degrees that is fine but I think you are pinching the wind. Alans explantion explains the situation (thanks again Alan). The only way you can tell what is the best for your situation is experiment. Fall off a bit and see if speed improves.

 

[Alan]

So Don

.....does this mean you are or aren't full of shit? ;D;D

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Don, thanks for the update. I thought I was...

losing my mind. No problem. I hope everything checked out okay with your colonoscopy. I had my first done five years ago and I checked out clean. My next is scheduled for 2010 and I'll be 67. On a more humble note I just lost a dear friend last week to colon cancer at the age of 74. He was in a lot of pain, but the medical staff could not figure out why. Once they finally diagnosed his condition, after weeks and weeks of suffering, it was too late. He was gone in less than two weeks. So sad.Alan's reply makes perfect sense. I've tried your suggestions many times and it does make a difference. I always keep an eye on my telltales...very helpful. I finally found our boat's close hauled genoa car sweet spot. I've never raced officially, but the two boats I cruise with do; a Freedom 32 cat sloop and a Cal 27 sloop. Up to about 12 knots apparent we're usually neck and neck. After that Belle-Vie's higher hull speed runs away.Terry

 

[caguy]

Even loopy your advice is helpful.

Thanks, again for your help.By the way I had my colonoscopy picture made into a Valentine Day card for my wife. "With love, from the Heart of My Bottom."Frank

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Frank, eeeewwww! Nice thought, though.

nm

 

[sailaway78]

I don't get it

I don't get it at all about this pointing discussion. There is no single answer on how high you can get. And from my experience it should be obvious when you pinch up over the limit. Every boat I have ever been on was different. My 28'er will sail pretty well up to about 35 degrees apparent. The 37 will go around 40. I was on a 39 ketch last summer, and under 50 degrees on it and the boat basically stopped. So what is the deal, simple. The boat slows down enough to be apparent, so fall off a little. I am as bad as any, and worse than most about trying to pinch up too much, but it is apparent when I do so, as the boat slows dramatically.