Weather Helm H26

[Chiriqui]

In the past 30 minutes of reading other posts I've learned about what I experienced my last time out on my H26, my 5th time out with the sails up.

The weather helm effect was most apparent on a "beam reach to a "broad reach" 5 ft swells were coming in of the stern on the windward side.

I thought it was the combination of the swells and too much wind in the sails that kicked me around into wind with the water line coming up to the gun rails on the leeward side. I could fight it off when he started it seemed by pumping the tiller and point her more into a broad reach.

I had the traveler set in the middle. (should this have been moved to the leeward side? )

I know I must sound like a complete idiot but I've got to start asking questions. It was a just a little bit scary. The winds were moderate with gusts. I need to learn how to handle this.

The tackle/main sheet is connected to the middle of the boom.

The boat has a roller furler jib.

The tiller was more to the windward side when sailing.

I'm trying to think of all of the settings that you the reader might need to help me get a handle on eliminating this effect (if possible). Or, what I should do during the event to bring the boat back under control.

It swung me once right into irons. If these had been heavier winds I might have been in serious straights.

I think I want to know what I should be doing with the main. I should be flattening it if what I read is right but I want to be able to unload it. I don't think I should need to reef in the main but if so I need some idea how to do this.

This is offshore sailing on the Pacific side of Panama
Enough said at this point..

 

[Joe]

Beam reach, dude, you're way over trimmed. Drop the traveller down, set the vang and use the mainsheet to bleed off in the puffs. If the sails feel over powered, ease the vang to twist off the top and spill some air.

Oh, and learn to reef whether you thing you need it or not.

 

[Don12364]

Whilst it is good to teach yourself to sail because the lessons learned are never forgotten - you may be a danger to yourself and others whilst you master the basics.

I am not suggesting you take a formal course but if you could get an experienced sailor to come with you, or to take you out in his boat, then the initial learning process is much quicker. You will also learn the 'best' way (huh!) of doing things - and learn the commonly used names for the various aspects of sailing and parts of the boat.

At a later stage a formal course will amaze you by revealing how much more there is to know and learn - and it is fun.

We wish you well.

 

[Chiriqui]

Ok guys.. keep it coming! I knew I'd be in for it. Yes I'm working on getting the reefing down. I do have a sailor on hand but he's not always available to go out with me. This last trip was with another fellow with some sailing experience. I sailed some back when I was a teenager, I turn 64 in a week or two, on the Hudson River sailing a Turnabout and on my dad's 6 meter. It's coming back, but I need feed back like you are giving me.. thanks

 

[KenG]

weather helm

I have had my Hunter 26 for 7 years now and am still learning lots about it.
We just came back from 6 days sailing in Lake of Woods Ontario and we were in wind conditions of 20km gusting to 46km winds.

What I have learned is reef early, on this past trip if we would have had a second reefing point, I would have used it. Also play around with the furler,last week on the windiest days I only had about 15% of the furler out and the boat was balanced fairly well except for the gusts.

I have also learned that you do not loose any speed when reefed, last week we hit 6.8knots fully reefed.

Ken

 

[Ray T]

You might try some basic sailing books. Since you've been out there the books would probably clarify things for you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Think" "It's GOOD that the boat rounded up like that!" Smaller boats are sometimes designed to do just that so that when overpowered they don't go over, they stay upright.

Read, practice, read, consult, practice. You could do very well by buying Sail Trim books, best condensed info on sail trim I've seen.

 

[Alan]

These guys have pretty much said it. Learn to reef and become proficient at it. Being under canvased is not a crime.
You would gain a great deal from Don Guillette's Sail Trim guide. Sounds like you're having a blast but take care not to get yourself in over your head.

 

[Don Guillette]

Chiriqui: I'm sitting here in my motor home at an RV park overlooking Las Cruces, NM and I know where you're coming from as I've been there.

You've come to the right place and don't worry about asking sail trim questions - none of us was born with this knowledge. We all had to learn it somewhere and somehow.

I see you're a bike rider. Let's use that fact to put learning how to sail a sailboat into perspective. Suppose I was teaching you how to ride a bike for the FIRST time. By first time I mean training wheels!! Suppose I started teaching you how to use the 25 gear shifter and what gear you needed on the flat and what you needed to climb hills. What would you think? You'd think I was crazy. Unfortunately, from a sail trim stand point that is where you're at. In other words, you don't have an understanding of the basics. You don't know what you're adjusting or why you're adjusting it. Don't worry, as you're not alone. 75% of the sailors worldwide learned to sail their boats that way.

Sadly, as you'll find out - as other have - this is a crappy way to learn anything as it is trial and error.

Sai trim is not nuclear science and can be learned in a few hours - IF YOU GO ABOUT IT CORRECTLY. The first thing you have to figure out is what are all the sail trim controls on the main and jib adjusting? They are adjusting draft deepth, draft position, twist and angle of attack and that is it. You need to have a complete understanding of those 4 elements. Next, you have to figure out what element of sail trim each sail trim control for the main and jib is adjusting.

For example, the traveler only adjusts angle of attack on the mainsail. In very simple terms, the closer you move the traveler to the centerline of the boat, the faster you go. Since you're probably heeled way over, just drop the traveler down and see what happens. The boat will slow down and come back on its feet.

You could research all this stuff yourself but why bother - I've already done it for you. Take a look at my book and chart, which is sold on this site, and see what you think.

I assume things are much cheaper in Panama than the US so you probably have a few pesos to spare so order the book and chart. Unfortunately, time and space does not permit the folks on this site to move you from beginner to intermediate. Once you have a firm foundation on the basics they can help polish you off.

Thank you for trying this site.

 

[Chiriqui]

Just ordered the "Sail Trim Chart and Sail Trim Guide" laminated.. good idea!
thanks. Now to see if it gets to my daughters house before the 9th of Oct. She can then bring it with her when she and her family are off to Panama to visit me and for a ride on the boat! We can always just motor around if I read conditions that are beyond my experience level.

 

[Don Guillette]

Chirique: Is your daughter Anna Wynn?

Your book and chart will be in the mail tomorrow. Normally, I ship my products "media mail", which takes 6 or 7 days. If you get back to me by Email on this site before 8:30AM (mountain time) tomorrow morning, when I'll be on my way to the post office, and confirm Anna Wynn is your daughter, I'll ship first class mail and she'll have it 3 days, which is plenty of time to make her departure.

Myself and the rest of the guys and gals on this site don't want you motoring around Panama - we want you sailing around Panama!! Tell your daughter to read the book on the flight - only one problem with that and it is she'll know more about sail trim than you do. She can teach dad, which is a good thing!!

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Chirique, all the above is good advice, Don's book is great. I sail a 260 so almost the same boat as yours I think ? is your boat a waterballast ?

One thing to check is that the rudder is down all the way at all times. I have seen boats using buggie cords in the down haul so the rudder creeps up with speed. If you are in deep waters use a shear pin to be sure it stays all the way down.

The second point I would make on these boats is that the outhaul for the mainsail is inadequate as delivered from Hunter. You want to flatten the main when to wind comes up, so you need to add some purchase, even a small block on the sail clew it will work much better. Also I set two line reefing up on my main, it is run back along the boom to the cockpit, as well as the outhaul and topping lift all terminate in jam cleats just above the companionway so no trip to the mast to reef the main or adjust topping lift or outhaull. Doing it this way also makes for easy trailering because it all stays on the boom with the sail when I'm on the road, and makes for a quicker setup at the ramp.

I used two small plastic blocks on the sail reef points to reduce friction and wear and tear on the sail, a few pictures of the setup below.

Bob

 

[Chiriqui]

Yes that's my daughter. If I'm lucky she'll get the book in time to bring it with her when she visits in a weeks time

 

[Chiriqui]

I had a good sailing day yesterday with virtually no events. The mail did snap over on me on a downwind run. I had none of the weather helm issues this time. I had the traveler to the leeward side and twist in the top of the sail.

I tried fishing to begin yesterdays adventures. I didn't fill the water ballast and motored up stream instead of out to sea to sail. These are mud silt channels I had to negotiate and it was at low tide. I saw 6.5' on the depth gauge a few times. I had the keel/center board up. I need the bait net my daughter bringing from the states to catch some sardines to fish with. Without the live bait we were not going to catch the Pargo/Red Sappers that ply these banks. These islands form a sort of outer banks to the coast that we were motoring by. The depths ranged from the 6.5 back up to 50 - 60 ft. There was a sizable section where I could have sailed around in with 30ft depths. I didn't want to fill the ballast though until I was on the other side the shallows we came though earlier. Instead we motored back the way we came and headed out to sea to sail around.

I awaiting a new rudder. I do have a hole in rudder for a shear pin. It's not easy finding a substance to use as a pin here in Panama. I really crank down hard on the wing nut to lock the rudder. A stick of bamboo is the best I've come up with that's available here to use for a pin. I look forward to the new rudder that has a hydraulic arm to hold the rudder down.

I'm studying your photos

 

[Don Guillette]

I took a chance and assumed that was your daughter and sent the products first class. She should have them at the beginning of next week if she doesn't already have them. I don't like sending products to a business address as they seem to get lost in mail rooms. Hopefully, this will work out.

The main and boom came over because you were "sailing by the lee", which is a very dangerous situation as you found out. What happens is the wind gets in front of the sail and flips it over, sometimes taking someone head with it or tearing up equipment.