We plan to purchase a larger boat this spring to sail for the next 5 to 8 years off shore. We are looking in the Seattle and Florida areas but will look anywhere for a good boat. After purchase we will then spend a year outfitting and learning to sail this boat in local waters. Then off to where ever. After having looked for the past 6 months we have centered in on 2 or 3 boats and styles that fit our needs. The intention of this posting is to gather ideas from others on what boats you would consider. The factors influenceing our choices are: 1. $60 to 110k for the basic boat. 2. 36 to 40 feet. 3. Cutter or ketch 4. Unfortunatly Hunters don't fit what we need.....sorry. The integrity of the boat, standing and running rigging and safety gear are large hitters. Electronics and lacking safety gear are something we will add after purchase. We know the drill about surveys etc. and are mainly looking for input about the boats, years of manufactured and reasons for there selection that influence your input. We currently own an absolutly perfect and lively 95 Hunter 26' that we sailed over 1100 miles last summer. We are 56 years old, strong enough to do this adventure and need to do it now, not later. We will take whatever time needed to learn and become proficient in this boat as the learning is as much fun as the journey. If you have strong reasons for your input, or just want to pass something on to us we can be reached by e-mail on this site and if necessary I'll can you by phone. Thank you to anyone who suffered thru this book I just wrote and we look forward to your comments. Ray
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Fly to your main offshore destinations;
airline tickets cost next to nothing right now and a few k$ from your savings would be well spent on talking to cruisers living on their boats in Puerto Vallarta, Honolulu, Papeete or wherever your dreams would lead you. They will be happy to talk to you, show you their boat and tell you what part of THEIR dreams worked or did not work out. Look especially to the cruisers who have been sitting in the same harbor for several months or years and find out why. This may prevent you from buying a Hans Christian or other battle tank. Why ask this board anyhow, if you are not considering a Hunter? Only YOU know how strong your sailing skills and stomach are and how heavy a boat you are going to need to feel safe enough. See yah out there some day. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II", Legend 43 (hull #1)
airline tickets cost next to nothing right now and a few k$ from your savings would be well spent on talking to cruisers living on their boats in Puerto Vallarta, Honolulu, Papeete or wherever your dreams would lead you. They will be happy to talk to you, show you their boat and tell you what part of THEIR dreams worked or did not work out. Look especially to the cruisers who have been sitting in the same harbor for several months or years and find out why. This may prevent you from buying a Hans Christian or other battle tank. Why ask this board anyhow, if you are not considering a Hunter? Only YOU know how strong your sailing skills and stomach are and how heavy a boat you are going to need to feel safe enough. See yah out there some day. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II", Legend 43 (hull #1)
Freedom
If I were thinking about cruising as you are I would certainly try to find out if the Freedom 38 would be the perfect starting platform. Fewer parts to break is comfortable notion to me. Add a reasonable performance return and it becomes more so. You have chosen a nice way to start doing your homework.. Good luck and good sailing: Jim Why Knot!
If I were thinking about cruising as you are I would certainly try to find out if the Freedom 38 would be the perfect starting platform. Fewer parts to break is comfortable notion to me. Add a reasonable performance return and it becomes more so. You have chosen a nice way to start doing your homework.. Good luck and good sailing: Jim Why Knot!
Tayana?
Love my Hunter 37-cutter but a close second would be the Tayana. Second only because it cost twice as much for the same year boat. There are 33 of them on the YachtWorld brokerage, Link below. The current issue of CW gave the boat very high marks. And I think Perry knows his stuff.
Love my Hunter 37-cutter but a close second would be the Tayana. Second only because it cost twice as much for the same year boat. There are 33 of them on the YachtWorld brokerage, Link below. The current issue of CW gave the boat very high marks. And I think Perry knows his stuff.
for Henk Meuzelaar
Your response was quite mysterious. I am curious as to your impression why people who sail a "battle tank" like a Hans Christian sit in port for months at a time. Thanks, looking forward to your response.
Your response was quite mysterious. I am curious as to your impression why people who sail a "battle tank" like a Hans Christian sit in port for months at a time. Thanks, looking forward to your response.
Pacific Seacraft
I've seen pacific seacraft 34's for about the high end of your price range. Only a little shorter than your min. length but definitely a rugged boat for bluewater and a cutter rig. Island Packet makes a nice boat but very expensive!! You might want to look at an Allied Princess 36' and low cost because of their age but also a rugged boat. Lastly a friend had a Gulfstar 41 Ketch and you can also get those around 65 K or so for an early 70's model. very comfortable boat. Also comes in a sloop rig. They also make a 37 but not many around. dave
I've seen pacific seacraft 34's for about the high end of your price range. Only a little shorter than your min. length but definitely a rugged boat for bluewater and a cutter rig. Island Packet makes a nice boat but very expensive!! You might want to look at an Allied Princess 36' and low cost because of their age but also a rugged boat. Lastly a friend had a Gulfstar 41 Ketch and you can also get those around 65 K or so for an early 70's model. very comfortable boat. Also comes in a sloop rig. They also make a 37 but not many around. dave
Ketch - vs- Cutter
There are so many boats out there which fit your criteria. Here is my input: 1.) I believe that a Hunter would not meet your needs. Cruisers need to minimize and buy a cruiser. No offense to Hunter people, I am one, but there are boats designed for specific purposes. Until you have been out there you wouldn't understand. 2.) I would not get a Ketch. They are a relic of the past. The utilization of reliable roller furling has allowed a captain to reduce sail with minimal effort. I have owned a ketch, and while they have a nostalgia feeling to them, they increasae your workload by 1/3rd. They add expense and clog up the cockpit. 3.) A cutter can be useful for the type of sailing you anticipate. A personal decision but make sure you have a removable innerstay. MOre sails and rigging add additional weight and expense. Even if you went with a sloop rig you would probably consider a removable innerstay for a storm sail. That one has pluses and minuses. 4.) Rent a studio apartment for six months and only leave it once every two weeks. If you like it you may want to be a cruiser
. Good luck in your search, there are a lot of great boats out there.
There are so many boats out there which fit your criteria. Here is my input: 1.) I believe that a Hunter would not meet your needs. Cruisers need to minimize and buy a cruiser. No offense to Hunter people, I am one, but there are boats designed for specific purposes. Until you have been out there you wouldn't understand. 2.) I would not get a Ketch. They are a relic of the past. The utilization of reliable roller furling has allowed a captain to reduce sail with minimal effort. I have owned a ketch, and while they have a nostalgia feeling to them, they increasae your workload by 1/3rd. They add expense and clog up the cockpit. 3.) A cutter can be useful for the type of sailing you anticipate. A personal decision but make sure you have a removable innerstay. MOre sails and rigging add additional weight and expense. Even if you went with a sloop rig you would probably consider a removable innerstay for a storm sail. That one has pluses and minuses. 4.) Rent a studio apartment for six months and only leave it once every two weeks. If you like it you may want to be a cruiser
. Good luck in your search, there are a lot of great boats out there.Reading Material
Ray, Sounds like you're in for an exciting next few years! I am just finishing the 30th anniversary edition of Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing. It was rewritten and very significantly updated in 1999. It has a wealth of information on boat design and safety equipment that I would definitely want to read were I in your shoes. Good luck! Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Ray, Sounds like you're in for an exciting next few years! I am just finishing the 30th anniversary edition of Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing. It was rewritten and very significantly updated in 1999. It has a wealth of information on boat design and safety equipment that I would definitely want to read were I in your shoes. Good luck! Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Here's a name
How about "Rayba". As far as the type of boat goes, I am a Beneteau 370 owner and love the boat. Very roomy and comfortable. For blue water cruising I would want to have a larger boat though, mostly for a feeling of increased safety and comfort. However; there are people who have sailed a 26 sized boat solo around the world, so it can be done regardless of the size. The Beneteau boats have the inner grid system (like a hull withing a hull( that give the hull greater strength. The overwhelming vast majority of off shore charter companies use Beneteaus. I guess they are the equivalent to the "Ford Crown Victory" of a New York City taxi cab fleet. Holds up to the tough stuff. I am a bit biassed because I am a Beneteau owner, I guess. But input is what you were looking for so there's my 2 cents worth. Enjoy your new adventure! Happy Holidays! Jack "Cabaret" Beneteau Oceanis 370
How about "Rayba". As far as the type of boat goes, I am a Beneteau 370 owner and love the boat. Very roomy and comfortable. For blue water cruising I would want to have a larger boat though, mostly for a feeling of increased safety and comfort. However; there are people who have sailed a 26 sized boat solo around the world, so it can be done regardless of the size. The Beneteau boats have the inner grid system (like a hull withing a hull( that give the hull greater strength. The overwhelming vast majority of off shore charter companies use Beneteaus. I guess they are the equivalent to the "Ford Crown Victory" of a New York City taxi cab fleet. Holds up to the tough stuff. I am a bit biassed because I am a Beneteau owner, I guess. But input is what you were looking for so there's my 2 cents worth. Enjoy your new adventure! Happy Holidays! Jack "Cabaret" Beneteau Oceanis 370
Response to D. Phillips' question
The short answer to your question (why am I under the impression that most cruisers sailing Hans Christians and other "battle tanks" sit in port a lot?) is: just go visit mainland ports like Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan and La Paz and look at the many heavy cruising boats sitting in port there while talking to the owners (mostly couples), as we did in 1993, 1995 and 1996. Many left San Diego and other Westcoast US ports with great plans for S. Pacific cruising, Panama canal transits or even circumnavigations and never made it past these Sea of Cortez gateways because their vessels would not sail very well unless a stiff breeze was blowing, in which case there was often a chance for more severe weather (or the cyclone season was about to start), etc. Thus, they would sit in these ports and wait for months and months for just the right weather window, all the while keeping their vessels impeccably varnished and enjoying the good life in Margaritaville. No real reason to feel too sorry for them, perhaps. In fact, the life there is pretty darn good and we barely "escaped" there ourselves in 1997 (an El Nino year with minimal trade winds, so again many of the heavy boats wanting to head for Hawaii or the South Pacific had to cancel their planned passages) or we might never have enjoyed the places we have visited since with our Hunter Legend 43 (Hawaii 2x, Tuvalu, Vanuatu 3x, Fiji, Australia). The long answer, would need to deal with such issues as: - light vs. heavy sailing vessel construction
The short answer to your question (why am I under the impression that most cruisers sailing Hans Christians and other "battle tanks" sit in port a lot?) is: just go visit mainland ports like Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan and La Paz and look at the many heavy cruising boats sitting in port there while talking to the owners (mostly couples), as we did in 1993, 1995 and 1996. Many left San Diego and other Westcoast US ports with great plans for S. Pacific cruising, Panama canal transits or even circumnavigations and never made it past these Sea of Cortez gateways because their vessels would not sail very well unless a stiff breeze was blowing, in which case there was often a chance for more severe weather (or the cyclone season was about to start), etc. Thus, they would sit in these ports and wait for months and months for just the right weather window, all the while keeping their vessels impeccably varnished and enjoying the good life in Margaritaville. No real reason to feel too sorry for them, perhaps. In fact, the life there is pretty darn good and we barely "escaped" there ourselves in 1997 (an El Nino year with minimal trade winds, so again many of the heavy boats wanting to head for Hawaii or the South Pacific had to cancel their planned passages) or we might never have enjoyed the places we have visited since with our Hunter Legend 43 (Hawaii 2x, Tuvalu, Vanuatu 3x, Fiji, Australia). The long answer, would need to deal with such issues as: - light vs. heavy sailing vessel construction
Hull Design, Safety Components
If I were getting ready to spend that amount to go blue water cruising, I would: - Design. Learn enough about hull design to have my own opinion about what I was looking for. I would insist on a design that was clearly self-righting (capsize screen <<2, but I would also want to see righting moment curves for my prospective hulls.) Hull and keel shape also effects ride, tracking, speed, etcetera. - Safety Components. Review the archives here on the site and books st the library to understand what components must be very strong, or even redundant to keep the water out of the hull, keep the freight (especially crew) safe, keep the rig attached and working, and allow me to deal with failures others have experienced when caught in really bad weather/seas. Finally, (and this is a personal choice) I would go with smaller and simpler consistent with enjoying the trip. I would minimize the number of mechanical and electrical systems because I am convinced that they would make me a slave to maintenance, more than a captain of a cruising boat and visitor of wonderful places. From previous conversations, some Hunter designs are succeeding as blue water cruisers, so you don't need to rule them out! That said, many of the modern Hunters are clearly coastal cruisers that wouldn't meet my design criteria. Oh, I really like Henk's idea of a visit to world cruising stops to talk with the folks who are doing it! David Lady Lillie
If I were getting ready to spend that amount to go blue water cruising, I would: - Design. Learn enough about hull design to have my own opinion about what I was looking for. I would insist on a design that was clearly self-righting (capsize screen <<2, but I would also want to see righting moment curves for my prospective hulls.) Hull and keel shape also effects ride, tracking, speed, etcetera. - Safety Components. Review the archives here on the site and books st the library to understand what components must be very strong, or even redundant to keep the water out of the hull, keep the freight (especially crew) safe, keep the rig attached and working, and allow me to deal with failures others have experienced when caught in really bad weather/seas. Finally, (and this is a personal choice) I would go with smaller and simpler consistent with enjoying the trip. I would minimize the number of mechanical and electrical systems because I am convinced that they would make me a slave to maintenance, more than a captain of a cruising boat and visitor of wonderful places. From previous conversations, some Hunter designs are succeeding as blue water cruisers, so you don't need to rule them out! That said, many of the modern Hunters are clearly coastal cruisers that wouldn't meet my design criteria. Oh, I really like Henk's idea of a visit to world cruising stops to talk with the folks who are doing it! David Lady Lillie
Ray, check out the Valiant Esprit 37
... at Signature Yachts on Lake Union (listed on this site in the boats for sale section - do a search for All, 37). It sure is nice and might just fit the bill. These boats sail very well and are very sturdy. Have fun shopping; there are a lot of qualified boats out there!
... at Signature Yachts on Lake Union (listed on this site in the boats for sale section - do a search for All, 37). It sure is nice and might just fit the bill. These boats sail very well and are very sturdy. Have fun shopping; there are a lot of qualified boats out there!
Help me understand please Ray.
Ray I own a 23.5 and may never move up but if I did it would be to the 26 foot hunter. Why are the Hunter's not suitable for Bluewater cruising. I am not disputing your point. I would just like to learn more. The places I cruise boats with over three feet of draft are at a serious dissadvantage so I think my boat may be close to ideal, but I'd like to learn what you bluewater types do for fun as I only sneak outside in good weather and rarely get more than 15 miles offshore.
Ray I own a 23.5 and may never move up but if I did it would be to the 26 foot hunter. Why are the Hunter's not suitable for Bluewater cruising. I am not disputing your point. I would just like to learn more. The places I cruise boats with over three feet of draft are at a serious dissadvantage so I think my boat may be close to ideal, but I'd like to learn what you bluewater types do for fun as I only sneak outside in good weather and rarely get more than 15 miles offshore.
in addition to hank
ive known alot of sailors that have been happy with heavy disp/ full keel boats and equally as many that have said never with a heavy full keel boat again. if you plan on sailing the trade winds heavy full keels are ok, but if you want to go off the beaten path i.e. solomon, gilbert or marshall is. you better have something with windword performance, id look for a moderate disp fin keel skeg hung rudder job.
ive known alot of sailors that have been happy with heavy disp/ full keel boats and equally as many that have said never with a heavy full keel boat again. if you plan on sailing the trade winds heavy full keels are ok, but if you want to go off the beaten path i.e. solomon, gilbert or marshall is. you better have something with windword performance, id look for a moderate disp fin keel skeg hung rudder job.
Ted; agree fullkeelers sail the Trades, but...
most sail only downwind and don't have a prayer trying to beat back against fullblown Trades. Instead, they need to seek higher latitudes to make their Easting, thereby exposing themselves to the endless procession of punishing lows spinning of from the polar regions. On top of that the past 2 decades have seen a succession of strong El Nino periods that killed the Trades and the ensuing light winds have wreaked havoc with the cruising schedules of many heavier vessels. Flying Dutchman
most sail only downwind and don't have a prayer trying to beat back against fullblown Trades. Instead, they need to seek higher latitudes to make their Easting, thereby exposing themselves to the endless procession of punishing lows spinning of from the polar regions. On top of that the past 2 decades have seen a succession of strong El Nino periods that killed the Trades and the ensuing light winds have wreaked havoc with the cruising schedules of many heavier vessels. Flying Dutchman
Yachtworld
Ray, If you haven't already discovered this site, you owe it to yourself to take a look at www.yachtworld.com. Go to "Boats for Sale" and then click on "Advanced Search". That allows you to input all your parameters including length, configuration, cost, age, location, etc. and will then return results that conform to your parameters. For example, searching only the west coast for a 36' - 46' boat, from 1980 on for $65K to $110K yielded 129 boats. Good luck and fair winds, Steve
Ray, If you haven't already discovered this site, you owe it to yourself to take a look at www.yachtworld.com. Go to "Boats for Sale" and then click on "Advanced Search". That allows you to input all your parameters including length, configuration, cost, age, location, etc. and will then return results that conform to your parameters. For example, searching only the west coast for a 36' - 46' boat, from 1980 on for $65K to $110K yielded 129 boats. Good luck and fair winds, Steve
Thank You Everyone for your responces!
The opinion about lite vs. heavier boats was well presented and something I needed to know. You were also right on the cutter vs. ketch. Nostalgia was a factor. We have decided to go with a cutter. The reason Hunters didn't make the cut is that they only had the one size cutter and from the archives it appeared to be frought with problems and the newer, stronger Hunters I couldn't afford. I love our current Hunter 26 and will probably leave it with the kids until we return. We have narrowed down our search to Tanaya, Cabo Rico and Valiant. But the day we pony up the money will be the day 6 new boats show up. The reason for the original question was because every time we met a new salesman he/she would trash every boat we had already been shown by another person. I had no idea at all that so many good boat builders built so much junk as we were told about. We were after straight answers and you all have given then. Thank You. Ray
The opinion about lite vs. heavier boats was well presented and something I needed to know. You were also right on the cutter vs. ketch. Nostalgia was a factor. We have decided to go with a cutter. The reason Hunters didn't make the cut is that they only had the one size cutter and from the archives it appeared to be frought with problems and the newer, stronger Hunters I couldn't afford. I love our current Hunter 26 and will probably leave it with the kids until we return. We have narrowed down our search to Tanaya, Cabo Rico and Valiant. But the day we pony up the money will be the day 6 new boats show up. The reason for the original question was because every time we met a new salesman he/she would trash every boat we had already been shown by another person. I had no idea at all that so many good boat builders built so much junk as we were told about. We were after straight answers and you all have given then. Thank You. Ray
Reference on cruising design
My earlier response got me searching our library - where did I learn anything about hull and keel design? I recommend "The Complete Guide to Choosing a Cruising Sailboat" by Roger Marshall. Chapter 2, Hull Shapes, and 3 Seaworthines will give you some understanding of the design issues for your purchase. And the book is the best of several I read when we were buying our '77 h27. And it's available in the chandlery of this site! David Lady Lillie
My earlier response got me searching our library - where did I learn anything about hull and keel design? I recommend "The Complete Guide to Choosing a Cruising Sailboat" by Roger Marshall. Chapter 2, Hull Shapes, and 3 Seaworthines will give you some understanding of the design issues for your purchase. And the book is the best of several I read when we were buying our '77 h27. And it's available in the chandlery of this site! David Lady Lillie
cutter rig?
I'm curious about the cutter rig requirement? Is it where the stick is located or the ability to fly a staysail? If it's the later an inner forestay can be added to some models if not all... Scott S/Y Rantum Scoot
I'm curious about the cutter rig requirement? Is it where the stick is located or the ability to fly a staysail? If it's the later an inner forestay can be added to some models if not all... Scott S/Y Rantum Scoot
Which Boat has Problems
I would like to know which Hunter boat has alot of problems? If it's the Hunter 37 I have only heard good things about the boat. Also if you can't buy one of the newer Hunters good luck on finding a good Cabo Rico or Valiant thats cheap. Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.
I would like to know which Hunter boat has alot of problems? If it's the Hunter 37 I have only heard good things about the boat. Also if you can't buy one of the newer Hunters good luck on finding a good Cabo Rico or Valiant thats cheap. Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.
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