Water Leak

[Regular Guy]

I have been discussing a water leak with the fellow sailor LarryH and thought it might be from general interest to discuss at the forum.

Last week I picked up my recently bought H260 and sailed/motored it home on a two day trip. Home I discovered water in the bilge area and under the galley floor and under the sink. It was about two bucket of water, I sponged it dry.

Some enclosed pictures show my attempt to fight the possible water leaks.

Incoming water will find the deepest level to go to and that will be under the floor of the cabin, hard to dry out from there since not reachable.

From what I read, there are two main spots to take care of first; the compression post and filler valve box. On both would intruding water directly run down under the cabin floor.

I got gallons of water coming out under the artificial teak floor and more on the bottom under the galley sink -as I poked there on a crack at the gel code.

I do not know for sure where the water came from, so, I sealed first the two boxes as you can see in the pictures.
The backer rod was pressed into the gaps between the inner and outer walls of the boxes to stop the sealant from running through. Then I filled everything with self leveling sealant.

Also I will seal a cable conduit on the transom where water could have come in. Will see when I take the boat out if still water comes in.

I dyed the water in the ballast tank, no leak from there. When water intrudes from one of the boxes while the boat is out and in motion, I should see it standing atop of the sealant.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Hart and I had a long discussion over the phone and sometimes it is very hard to tell someone what may be happening.

Generally if water is coming beneath the cabin floor board, the leak or water is coming from above. The floor lays in a recessed area of the floor (fiberglass) pan. Generally, the main culprit is the slider stop piece of teak which the seal between the teak and lexan or smoked glass a;;powing water going behind it and dripping into the cabin onto the floor. If the bead of caulk between the edge of the teak and holly sole is not sealed or is broken, water will seep underneath the floor board over a period of time and the end result is a water logged or soaked floor board. I suggest this be a two man repair which is simple. Take the screws out from one side of the fiberglass companion way hatch to remove the piece of wood or teak to drop the slider portion. Be careful doing this which is why two people here at that point. You will then see a piece of teak on the top side of the slider or smoked glass/lexan/plastic at the rear. Remove it, clean off old caulk on teak and slider and liberally add caulk across the entire piece of wood and reattach making sure you also caulk the screw threads liberally as well. When cleaning, only use alcohol so not to destroy the plastic slider.

Regarding the caulk around the wing nut and drain bail plug underneath the last step that flips up going into the cabin, you will need to remove it.
If water is coming up around the washer, then the neophrene gasket under the washer is no longer good in need of replacing. The drain bail plug may not be good or just simply needs to be enlargened by simply turning it.

One photo of the area underneath the galley shows gel coat that has popped off only. There was an air bubble when a covering of gel coat applied. Just fill in with epoxy and you can either spray a tan paint for example Kryon or brush on gel coat. This is not your source of water under the galley.

I advised Hart to look at the rear of the boat using a flashlight via the two opening doors on the rear berth wall. Also feel the floor for any wetness. The water would be coming either from the hull to deck joint and/or from the lower gudgeon or attachment of the rudder. IF so, that will be another discussion on repair. The water generally flows down under the rear berth and into the area below the galley. In addition if there are any thru hulls for a depth sounder or knot meter, make sure they are not leaking.

Hart advised adding colorant to the ballast tank. I instructed him to reach between the cabin floor and the top of the water ballast tank just in front of the bilge pump under the rear berth and that was dry.

Hart was advised to get a couple of heavy guys to stand on the boat in the cockpit next time when checking for leaks at the transom as the boat sitting at the dock, the hull to deck joint is above water and when motoring, sitting in the cockpit or sailing it is under water referencing the hull to deck joint at the transom.

If water is seen at the base of the compression post, there are three possibilities. First the compression post sits on a metal plate on top of the centerboard housing. I also note the screw hole in the compression post which is caulked. The metal plate resting on the top of the centerboard housing is caulked with 5200 around the seal. Then there is the retaining bolt for the centerboard bracket in itself. First, the hole in the compression post, there are actually two which take #10 bolts. I would clean and insert the two screws one in front and the other in back using silicon or 4200. If any leak around the metal plate sitting on top of the centerboard housing, clean in the affected area only and use 5200, not 4200 and push it in. Regarding the retaining bolt for th centerboard bracket and make sure it is tight. Caulk with either 4200 or 5200, not silicon.

I know this is long but at least you will have a clearer understanding now. Check the back end of the boat for water penetration and advise me when you have several folks standing at the back in the cockpit.

crazy dave condon

 

[Regular Guy]

Hunt for possible leaks

Dave; thank you very much for your always valuable advices.
Today was kind of windy and the boat jerked around a little at the dock. Probably because that came still some water out, but not so much anymore, from under the sink floor. I think that was still trapped and not new; it seems to dry up now. As far as I can reach, there is no staying water.
The bilge area stays dry, the transducers are not leaking. I crawled around and made pictures especially from at the aft all the way under the cockpit.
It was amazing to me how many screws, bolts and cable are going through from or to the outside; potential leaks.
The bolts of the upper rudder plate (pic 3) need for sure some sealant; underneath is a water stain spot. I found a screw from the starboard cockpit drink holder loosely going through to the fuse box.

Wished I had three heavy guys standing by to load weight on transom. Maybe tomorrow or on the weekend I will take her out for a little trip on the waters, will see what happens.

PS. Don't know why Hunter left the cardboard there (pic 5 and 6).

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

picture three is bolts one of which is leaking. They have to be removed, cleaned and recaulked. As for the cardboard, that was not hunter. It could have been there was damage at one time and someone who did the repair did not finish to include cleaning up.
I could not tell if the bolts are from the lower gudgeon or not that holds the rudder to the back end of the boat.

If you go out this weekend, simply motor the boat at high speed but not all the way which will then get the hull to deck joint below the water line for a while and then stop and look and feel to see if there is any water at that point. Photo of the lower gudgeon attachment please.

 

[Regular Guy]

Dave;
The leaking bolt is on the lower gudgeon (pic 1 and 3). It’s the bold with the stain in pic 3. It was loose; it could be easily being turned by a screw driver. Would you when cleaned just press caulk into the hole and re-screw/tighten the bolt? What sealant shall I take to get the bolt someday unscrewed again if needed?

I took the boat out today for an hour, motored hard. The water was unfortunately for the test calmer than wished for and no power boat brought me into big waves.
So, the lower mount of the rudder (lower gudgeon) was never full under water but over the rudder bracket flooded the water under the lower gudgeon; the rub guard on the transom was full under water.

Now the good news; no water intrusion! I put toilet paper on all possible leak locations, everything stayed dry. I think with sealing also the particular bolt my boat might be water proofed from the down side again. By the next big rain, I will check for leaks from the upper side. Thanks,
Hart

PS.
Pic 2 shows three bolts from the upper gudgeon, coming through under the helm seat. There are no washers or nuts used. Is that normal? Are there threaded metal plates in the fiberglass imbedded that no nuts are needed?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I was thinking of the older 26. Remove the bolts one at a time and use either an architectual grade of pure silicon or 4200. It would be best if you could lift the whole bracket up but one enough is good enough. What you do not realize, there is aluminum plate embedded in the glass. Remove the bolt, clean, reseal and tighten. Do not overtighten or you will strip the screw threads. That pretty much may be the leak. When you are motoring, trust me the hull to deck joint is below the water line and if there is no water seen nor felt there, then I will think the issue are the bolts. Thanks for the photos. Keep me posted.

crazy dave

 

[Regular Guy]

Floorboard seal and gelcoat repair

It looks like the leak was coming through the bolt at the lower rudder mount. The bolt was removed, all cleaned and set back in silicon as Dave recommended.

The wet spots in my boat seem to have dried up and now the floor seal has to be repaired and the cracked and blistered gelcoat to be replaced.

I would appreciate to hear your recommendation. What sealant should be use for repairing the floor seal? The floor sits in a fiberglass niche, the seal goes between the edge of the floor and the surrounding fiberglass. Only about 10 inches of the entire floor seal is defective and has to be redone; I do not want to take off the entire floor.

What gelcoat is to recommend? The bottom of the floor under the galley sink and some areas under the stern berth have partly to be re-painted. I believe the water creeped from stern berth/ bilge area between loose gelcoat, where broken on top of the fiberglass into the galley.

It seems to be important to have intact gelcoat in areas where water could be (even if not wished). If the gelcoat is cracked water may loosen up more and find its way to other spots. In my case, I found pieces of loose or hole gelcoat. Some pieces, 4-5" of size, I could just take off. I want to repaint that area to have intact gelcoat on the bottom.
Thanks,
Hart

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Hart;

Use an archeticual 100% pure silicon for the seal but make sure that the wood is completely dry first and the old caulk is removed.

I would buy the white gel coat from a local store vs. ordering it as the cost to ship is high as it is considered hazardous. Make sure the hardner is the higher temp. vs. regular hardner specifically designed for the gel coat and simply brush it on under the galley.

 

[Skippie10]

Hi, I'm redoing my teak and holly veneer floor and note that the water stains were caused by water seeping into the edges of the original floor. I have an S2 9.2 built in 85.

The water that seeped into the edges appears to be accumulated condensation which would work its way down the walls of the hull and end up on the false floor where the original teak and holly was laid down and glued (over the entire floor).

So, I'm thinking that I'll need to seal the edges of the new plywood with something very water impervious and then caulk the perimeter, as well.

Unsure as to how to channel the moisture away from the edges.... hmmm???

Help!

Don.... Port Washington, WI