Water in the Keel

tim_klynn · Mar 9, 2011

I don't know of any way to tell how the inside of the rudder is except to cut it open or maybe have it xrayed. I know there are companies that xray welds, maybe they could do the rudder. You could have someone work the tiller back and forth while someone else holds the rudder stationary to see if the rudder is loose on the shaft. I had a little play in the shoe at the bottom of the rudder shaft, a new bushing from Steve in UK fixed that problem.

You probably know that the back of the keel is hollow and forms the bilge inside.
The only time I get water in my bilge is if the cockpit floor is a little loose and I get a big rain.
I sealed all other leaks and they haven't returned so far. -Tim

caesarpaul01 · Mar 9, 2011

Congratulations on your new boat.
Can you show us a picture? We will enjoy your ownership even more.

CaesarPaul

________________________________
From: schult.cindy schult.cindy@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:01:39 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Water in the Keel

Hi all,

I am the proud new owner of a 1969 Vega. She needs a little work, but I love
her. While inspecting her bottom, I discovered that she has water in her rudder and a
little in her keel too. I have read that the rudder is a weak point on vegas.
Her rudder appears to be sound other than a small crack about port- side middle
of it. Does anyone have an idea as to the likelyhood of searious internal
weakening of flooded vega rudders? i this it took on the water sometime with in
the past 2 years, and there is some brown discoloration of the draining water.

As for the keel. The water wass in the rear half of the keel. There was only few
ounces of it, and it was clear. I have yet to determine how it got in. Does
anyone know of a likely entry or some source common in Vegas?

Thanks for your help.

PS. I have been admiring pictures of many of your boats - Very Nice work guys.

tim_klynn · Mar 9, 2011

On my boat, the bilge goes pretty much to the bottom of the keel and has a plug to drain it. At first I was puzzled by leakage below the bilge and behind the solid section, but then I remembered that Series 1 Vegas might be a different than my Series 2.

I vaguely remember some posts on the Series 1's saying that they have foam in there or something. -Tim

caesarpaul01 · Mar 9, 2011

Awesome! And you seem to have a solid looking trailer as well.
Enjoy sailing the boat fully.
I hope to earn a Vega in the future; I'm just learning as much as I can
presently.
Thanks for the picture.

Caesar Paul

________________________________
From: schult.cindy schult.cindy@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 10:58:12 AM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Water in the Keel

Added a file called cindy's baby with a couple pix.

groundhogyh · Mar 9, 2011

Hello schult.cindy!
Congrats.
On my boat the melting ice from the cooler drains to the keel.
So yours is probably the same.
gh

jbergman888 · Mar 9, 2011

GH,
I have a 1969, #169. Why oh why would they design it that way? I'm going to have to check my drain from the cooler?

Cindy,
congrats, where are you located?
s/v Cygnet Joseph "Bruce" Bergman
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: groundhogyh@...
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:51:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Water in the Keel
Hello schult.cindy!
Congrats.
On my boat the melting ice from the cooler drains to the keel.
So yours is probably the same.
gh

groundhogyh · Mar 9, 2011

I wondered the same...
Why wouldnt they just plumb it to the sink drain?
Maybe the cooler bottom is too low?
gh

tim_klynn · Mar 9, 2011

I think they designed the cooler to drain into the bilge so that as the ice in the cooler melts, the beer doesn't end up sloshing around in the melt water, getting shaken up, and erupting in a geyser of foam when you crack one open.

groundhogyh · Mar 9, 2011

.... those sweeds are beer geniuses....
gh

capnscruffy · Mar 10, 2011

Another probable source of ingress is the cockpit sole and locker lids.
Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

btfag0s · Mar 10, 2011

I think you are talking about different things here.

I would expect a cooler to drain into the bilge, as would any leak in
the table leg holes. The bilge being the lowest internal part of the
boat

The water in the keel that was described seems to me like the empty
space (void) that is aft of the ballast and below the bilge and which
is external.

Alisdair

dougpol1 · Mar 10, 2011

I don't see the problem. I have an automatic bilge pump in the sump it
pumps out ice box water and any other water that gets in the boat which
is almost none. I live about 200 miles from my boat and it stays in the
water all winter. About every six weeks I go spend a night and charge
batteries. No problem at all. Doug

pjacobs55 · Mar 10, 2011

For a digram of the early keel construction see
Keel_Construction.jpg
in the files section.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Mar 10, 2011

(Talking Series I Vega)
The Vega drains all water down to the bilge on a carefully designed sloped sub floor. From the anchor locker, water tank area, under the main bunks, and (I'm pretty sure, but will check)even the table leg holes, all water is designed to get to the lowest point: the bilge.

Under the bunks, approximately half way back, there are weep holes to carry moisture through to the battery compartment area, then to the bilge. (The port bunk has an air duct along the bottom of the boat that condenses out moisture in the air against the cool hull surface, helping to keep the boat interior dry).

These small weep holes often get plugged with grunge and need to be cleaned out with a piece of coat hanger wire, or some such device.

The cooler drains to the bilge. Connecting it to the sink drain would be a problem for those of us who keep this valve closed unless using the sink. Also, as the bottom of the cooler is close to (or maybe even a bit below) the water line, on opening the cooler up while on the starboard tack one might discover several inches of ocean in there ;-)

The Series I Vega bilge, diagramed in the files section, has a false plywood/glass bottom and is filled with foam beneath it. (Later series boats have no false bottom, and use this space for the fuel tank).

A small drain screw, below the bilge drain plug on the outside starboard side, is used to drain out moisture when the boat is hauled out. On my boat there were screw holes in the bilge floor (probably from a bilge pump installation)that allowed water to seep into the cavity. That was easily fixed, but I noticed on my next haulout some water still came out when the screw was removed, but not enough to worry about.

On the rudder: if you got rusty-looking water out of it you should probably plan on a rudder re-build soon. I don't know if the internal supports are stainless steel so they would probably rust of there's water leaking in from a crack in the fiberglass. Even stain"less" will corrode in a sealed environment. Eventual failure of the internal metal supports is likely if water is leaking in.

In the files section there's a file called "How to build a Vegarudder.pdf" with detailed instructions for building a new one from scratch. It's an excellent, well documented "how to" article by Jan van Craaikamp and has many photos of the stock Vega rudder, showing it being split apart and showing the internal support structure.

Oh, and looking at your pictures, I think I have "trailer envy" ... that's a nice looking unit ... trailer AND Vega!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Mar 10, 2011

Ooops ...that should read "port tack"
Peter.
#1331 'Sin Tacha'