Water conservation

[shorty]

Questions for Peggy.I have just completed a (Peggy) textbook installation of a new head, tank, hand pump etc. Previous owner had piped a new holding tank w/o vent loops, tank was small, head was old, etc.New Raritan PHII has ~8-9' to vent loop, which I calculate as ~3+ qts. Also ventilated loop between pump & bowl about 3' above head on bulkhead behind head. Also tee'd off sink drain to raw water inlet for fresh water feed to clean system. New tank is 25 gallon. Hose is white Sealand $$$ OdorSafe.Raritan says dry pump will only evacuate bowl, not move material. Raritan says ~7 oz. per pump. Tested system from dry, after getting water to bowl it took ~25 pumps to get water to the tank, ~5-1/2 qts according to Raritan. Tried dry pumps & they still seemed to be moving water to the tank.So, multiple questions:Could we, in fact, do a series of wet then dry pumps to move material (liquid at least) to the top of the loop with less water?How necesary is it to get the "good stuff" all the way to the tank w/every flush? Could we flush with 4-5 wet, then 3-4 dry, during the day, then make sure everything gets to the tank last flush at night?Other suggestions?Thanks!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I think you misunderstood Raritan...

"Raritan says dry pump will only evacuate bowl, not move material."What they REALLY said is that dry only pushes bowl contents out without also bringing in any flush water. The following is a quote from Vic Willman at Raritan: "In the “wet” mode, the pump pulls water in from outside to rinse the bowl, while simultaneously removing the contents of the bowl and pumping them downstream. In the “dry” mode, it only pushes bowl contents out. While in the “dry” mode, air pressure created by pumping a manual toilet that is in good condition can move waste and water through the system up to about 6 feet without bringing in any flush water."So your real problem is the distance from the toilet to the top of the vented loop...WHY is it 8+ feet from the toilet??? That's further than the tank should be! (How far from the toilet IS the tank??? And unless you aren't also plumbed to flush directly overboard at sea, why did you put a vented loop in the head discharge line at all?) If you'd put the vented loop immediately after the toilet, you'd have no trouble getting waste over the top of it in the dry mode...and unless the tank is at the other end of the boat, gravity SHOULD get it the rest of the way to the tank. A quart or two of clean fresh water flushed down the toilet--in the dry mode--once a day, and especially before the boat will sit, would be all that's needed to flush out the head discharge line. But as far away as you've put the vented loop, I dunno how you're gonna do it without using a LOT of water. And there's another problem too: with an uphill run that long, there will always be waste or flush water sitting in the line to run back down into the bowl. The joker valve in a brand new toilet will block it at first...but only till enough flushes have gone through it to stretch the slit a micromilimeter...then you're gonna have slow seepage through it. I do wish we'd talked before you did all that work...'cuz unfortunately it's NOT a "Peggie textbook" installation. How tough will it be modify it?

 

[shorty]

Retro-fit existing layout

I guess I knew I was in dicey territory claiming text book. Anyway, the vented loop is in the original location w/not much (if any) options for relocation. Yes it is wyed for direct discharge, that's why loop. It is not actually too far from the head but, most of the length is due to looping to space big enough to chase hose. Elevation difference between head discharge & loop is 4-1/2 to 5'. It is ~6' horizontally to the tank from the head. From the loop it is a pretty clean drop of ~4'to the tank. More than half the run from the head to the loop is under the floor below the level of the head & the tank.Modification? I dunno.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

What about....

The simplest solution would have been to come straight UP from the toilet discharge--which would require that the discharge fitting be a 90 (Raritan will swap out straights for 90s, btw) to the vented loop, then down to the y-valve and on to the tank and thru-hull.Plan B: what if you moved the vented loop to go between the y-valve and the thru-hull? You don't really need one between the toilet and the tank, only between the toilet and the thru-hull.Either plan means you might have to buy another couple feet of hose...but that's not a budget buster...and a couple of unions in the head discharge hose sure beats the problems that long uphill run is likely to give you.As for "textbook"...except for putting that d'd vented loop in the wrong place, I think you did!

 

[shorty]

I think I can, I think I can

I think I can reroute the discharge to eliminate 3-4' of it. It will be a lot more visible, running along under the sink, but I would rather see ugly than smell ugly. I don't get back to the boat for another 10 days, but I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the kick in the butt.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Awwww....

I didn't mean for it to be a kick in the butt! I just don't want you to have problems that can prevented. So, ok...you need to make a few adjustments to do that...but HONEST...they're worth the effort!And except for the vented loop location, you really did do a "textbook" installation!