I am planning to go on a 125 mile, overnight, race. I will have five crew including myself. Three of the crew are experinced, the other two novices. I would like some suggestions on a watch schedule that will allow three people in the cockpit at all times during nighttime hours. Thanks, John Richard s/v Jack's Place
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One Possibility, John
If it were me, I would start two-hour watch schedules at 1800 and run them through 1200 the next day. I have found everyone wants to stay up during the day and let the excitement steam off. The crew also seems to like the shorter two-hour evening shifts. What I would do is have two watch schedules, isolating the experienced and non-experienced. So, if the experienced are A, B and C and the non are D and E, then 1800-2000, A, B and D on; C and E off. 2000-2200, A, C and E on, B and D off. 2200-2400, B, C and D on; A and E off. And so on. I run a page with large, bold font, cover it in plastic, tape it on the bulkhead and attach a felt marker. The crew can keep track of the shifts and add anything they want the next shift to know. Works for me. Have a great race. PS: I also assign shifts for wheel work so everyone gets a chance to helm and duties for food. If you want me to send an example, let me know. I can e-mail you one. Rick D.
If it were me, I would start two-hour watch schedules at 1800 and run them through 1200 the next day. I have found everyone wants to stay up during the day and let the excitement steam off. The crew also seems to like the shorter two-hour evening shifts. What I would do is have two watch schedules, isolating the experienced and non-experienced. So, if the experienced are A, B and C and the non are D and E, then 1800-2000, A, B and D on; C and E off. 2000-2200, A, C and E on, B and D off. 2200-2400, B, C and D on; A and E off. And so on. I run a page with large, bold font, cover it in plastic, tape it on the bulkhead and attach a felt marker. The crew can keep track of the shifts and add anything they want the next shift to know. Works for me. Have a great race. PS: I also assign shifts for wheel work so everyone gets a chance to helm and duties for food. If you want me to send an example, let me know. I can e-mail you one. Rick D.
Watches
With those requirements you might want to think in terms of 1.5 or 2 hour watches, rotating one for sleep and one up every watch. That would make the on deck watch 4.5-6 hours and the sleep time 3-4 hours each rotation. Experiment with some scenarios. You might want to go to shorter times for the overnight. You will also want to maybe keep two of the three experienced crew on deck at night so that might affect the overnight watch schedule too. We did a four man trip from SFO to Ensenada a few months ago and we wanted two on deck all the time. We did three hour watches in the day and two hours at night. It was a little brutal for sleeping, but we were out 4.5 days. Even though sleep was difficult, I liked the two hour night watches because we did not have an autopilot and had to steer 24/7. The shorter watches made that concentration, particular at night much easier. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
With those requirements you might want to think in terms of 1.5 or 2 hour watches, rotating one for sleep and one up every watch. That would make the on deck watch 4.5-6 hours and the sleep time 3-4 hours each rotation. Experiment with some scenarios. You might want to go to shorter times for the overnight. You will also want to maybe keep two of the three experienced crew on deck at night so that might affect the overnight watch schedule too. We did a four man trip from SFO to Ensenada a few months ago and we wanted two on deck all the time. We did three hour watches in the day and two hours at night. It was a little brutal for sleeping, but we were out 4.5 days. Even though sleep was difficult, I liked the two hour night watches because we did not have an autopilot and had to steer 24/7. The shorter watches made that concentration, particular at night much easier. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Guard duty
When I was in the Army, the biggest challenge of guard duty was the four-hour watch. You're falling asleep all the time until you finally get off, then can't get to sleep for an hour. I would suggest experimenting with the crew over time and not locking everyone in just yet.
When I was in the Army, the biggest challenge of guard duty was the four-hour watch. You're falling asleep all the time until you finally get off, then can't get to sleep for an hour. I would suggest experimenting with the crew over time and not locking everyone in just yet.
I had a similar dilemma
planning for the Marion-Bermuda race last June. I had two experienced racers, two cruisers without racing experience, and two green sailors. My original plan was to include one of each in a shift and I had come up with a schedule that rotated the graveyard shift between both groups in alternating days. The problem was that my two shift mates got both seasick the first night and remained sick for the rest of the 4.5 days race. Down the drain (literally) went my plan and from there on, we had to fall back to a spontaneous shift order where the helm was taken by whoever of the three sailors with experience felt better at the time, always accompanied by someone else. I kept awake for the first 48 hours but eventually had to take a nap and instructed the crew that my fellow racer should be up during my nap but even that did not work. When I awoke six hours later, I found double reefed main and genoas with a less than 15 knot wind and our boat making less than 5 knots. @#(*&ARRRRR. ^ !## When I asked what had happened, I was told that they felt my racer crew needed some extra sleep and had not wakened him up. Just to show how far plans can go. Given that your race is a lot shorter, however, my suggestion would be that you set up two shifts of 2 persons including one experienced in each, and you make yourself available at any time during the race taking naps whenever things are quiet. Most likely, as in my case, you will not be able to sleep that night anyway. Good luck.
planning for the Marion-Bermuda race last June. I had two experienced racers, two cruisers without racing experience, and two green sailors. My original plan was to include one of each in a shift and I had come up with a schedule that rotated the graveyard shift between both groups in alternating days. The problem was that my two shift mates got both seasick the first night and remained sick for the rest of the 4.5 days race. Down the drain (literally) went my plan and from there on, we had to fall back to a spontaneous shift order where the helm was taken by whoever of the three sailors with experience felt better at the time, always accompanied by someone else. I kept awake for the first 48 hours but eventually had to take a nap and instructed the crew that my fellow racer should be up during my nap but even that did not work. When I awoke six hours later, I found double reefed main and genoas with a less than 15 knot wind and our boat making less than 5 knots. @#(*&ARRRRR. ^ !## When I asked what had happened, I was told that they felt my racer crew needed some extra sleep and had not wakened him up. Just to show how far plans can go. Given that your race is a lot shorter, however, my suggestion would be that you set up two shifts of 2 persons including one experienced in each, and you make yourself available at any time during the race taking naps whenever things are quiet. Most likely, as in my case, you will not be able to sleep that night anyway. Good luck.
John
The only one that needs to be relieved is the helmsman. The max time anyone can stay on the helm and be competitive is 2hrs. I would rotate through the best 3 helmsmen every 90 minutes. The rest of the crew is either on the rail where they can call puffs and waves or working trim. Trimmers can be rotated in anyway that works best. Anyone going below stays on the weather side and only for as little time as is needed to do whatever. Food should be prepackaged finger food (NO cooking) and plenty of water. Make sure everyone onboard wears a pfd with a strobe after sunset. Also, before the race I would STRONGLY suggest that you walk through a man-overboard drill. The man calling "MOB", NEVER takes his eyes off the victim and continues to point at him.
The only one that needs to be relieved is the helmsman. The max time anyone can stay on the helm and be competitive is 2hrs. I would rotate through the best 3 helmsmen every 90 minutes. The rest of the crew is either on the rail where they can call puffs and waves or working trim. Trimmers can be rotated in anyway that works best. Anyone going below stays on the weather side and only for as little time as is needed to do whatever. Food should be prepackaged finger food (NO cooking) and plenty of water. Make sure everyone onboard wears a pfd with a strobe after sunset. Also, before the race I would STRONGLY suggest that you walk through a man-overboard drill. The man calling "MOB", NEVER takes his eyes off the victim and continues to point at him.
Short Shifts
All good advice - keep shorter shifts, and pay particular attention to the helmsman's condition. Maggie & I CRUISED on 2 Hour shifts, finding 4 Hrs too long. Good racing!!!
All good advice - keep shorter shifts, and pay particular attention to the helmsman's condition. Maggie & I CRUISED on 2 Hour shifts, finding 4 Hrs too long. Good racing!!!
Over Night Races
IMHP over night races are WON during the night. Seems like lots of boats go into relax mode and the crew looses the edge. How many times have you been in a pack of boats as the sun sets and when the sun comes up the next morning there is no one around, except for maybe a couple of dots on the horizon ahead of or behind you. The ones ahead are going to win the race because they kept the hammer down all night long. They did not loose focus and reacted to what the conditions called for. If you want to win, you must keep everyone focused and into racing mode. Your watches must be set up so you have strong watch captians that keep things going. The last thing you want to find when you wake is a double reef and VMG of less than 5 knots. Thats what you want the other boats in your fleet to do. Good luck and I sincerely hope that you pull the "horizon" job on all your competition.
IMHP over night races are WON during the night. Seems like lots of boats go into relax mode and the crew looses the edge. How many times have you been in a pack of boats as the sun sets and when the sun comes up the next morning there is no one around, except for maybe a couple of dots on the horizon ahead of or behind you. The ones ahead are going to win the race because they kept the hammer down all night long. They did not loose focus and reacted to what the conditions called for. If you want to win, you must keep everyone focused and into racing mode. Your watches must be set up so you have strong watch captians that keep things going. The last thing you want to find when you wake is a double reef and VMG of less than 5 knots. Thats what you want the other boats in your fleet to do. Good luck and I sincerely hope that you pull the "horizon" job on all your competition.
Drive, Drive, Drive....
I'd re-read Darrel's post: its right on. I've done a few overnight races...On one, a single overnight race from Annapolis to Solomon's Island, nobody slept (except for drowsing on the rail), we rotated helmsmen every hour or so and the spin trimmer whenever they got inattentive: finished third in our class. Another race, 4 nights (and 5 days) in very light air, we followed a nice 3 hours-on, 6-off rotation of 2-person crews....arrived relaxed and happy, but dead last. Talk with your crew: are you racing or cruising?
I'd re-read Darrel's post: its right on. I've done a few overnight races...On one, a single overnight race from Annapolis to Solomon's Island, nobody slept (except for drowsing on the rail), we rotated helmsmen every hour or so and the spin trimmer whenever they got inattentive: finished third in our class. Another race, 4 nights (and 5 days) in very light air, we followed a nice 3 hours-on, 6-off rotation of 2-person crews....arrived relaxed and happy, but dead last. Talk with your crew: are you racing or cruising?
This is what I came up with
I am very appreciative off all of your responses. I printed them off and am going to hand them out the my crew. I'm also preaching that the race will be won at night. The schedule I have come up with is as follows. Beginning at 2000, two hour watches will begin. At 2100, someone is off and another is coming up the companionway. This will provide an overlap so nobody on watch is tired at the same time as the other. This will continue until 0300 when I have three on. The third will help to keep everyone sharp, again, using the overlapping schedule, I feel this will be optimized. Due to only have five people, someone had to do a little extra time in the cockpit. That will be me. I have one member who is very experienced, having even climbed Mt. Everest to the base camp, so he will be my primary go-to guy. He'll also be the tactician. During darkness, he will be at the helm when I am down below. I have organized the crew according to their strengths and have them into primary and secondary responsibilities. This way, everyone will know where they belong and what to do. However, I am cross training each in all the chores available. Am I anal or what? Unfortunately the best laid plans of mice and men sometimes go to...where ever, so flexibility will be the key. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
I am very appreciative off all of your responses. I printed them off and am going to hand them out the my crew. I'm also preaching that the race will be won at night. The schedule I have come up with is as follows. Beginning at 2000, two hour watches will begin. At 2100, someone is off and another is coming up the companionway. This will provide an overlap so nobody on watch is tired at the same time as the other. This will continue until 0300 when I have three on. The third will help to keep everyone sharp, again, using the overlapping schedule, I feel this will be optimized. Due to only have five people, someone had to do a little extra time in the cockpit. That will be me. I have one member who is very experienced, having even climbed Mt. Everest to the base camp, so he will be my primary go-to guy. He'll also be the tactician. During darkness, he will be at the helm when I am down below. I have organized the crew according to their strengths and have them into primary and secondary responsibilities. This way, everyone will know where they belong and what to do. However, I am cross training each in all the chores available. Am I anal or what? Unfortunately the best laid plans of mice and men sometimes go to...where ever, so flexibility will be the key. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Wining is not just in the watch system
I've won five overnight races (some in class, some overall) here in the Pacific Northwest and took second in the Strait of Georgia race one year. To give proper perspective, we've also been dead last and have dropped out of a number of races--so it averages out. Having a watch schedule seems to me to be the least important item in racing at night. Making sure the crew has proper clothing (here in the northwest that means foul weather gear), plenty of proper food (more on this later) and knowledge of where we're going, what the currents are doing and the dangers along the way. I'd put food as an important item for the crew. No sardines and whipped cream sandwiches for an overnighter. We have two types of food, one for storms and one for regular sailing. Sandwiches (peanut butter and jelly, turkey, roast beef--anything that is bland) wrapped in individual wrappers and well labeled. That is for storms. We take fifty sandwiches for six guys. If the weather allows, I have frozen beef stew in one quart bags that will feed three guys. This I make ahead of time and freeze it in Seal-A-Bags. Then around dinner time we heat a pressure cooker half full of water, when boiling, place bag of stew in cooker and continuing boiling Without the pressure gizmo on top. In twenty minutes you have hot stew with french bread. When the first watch is eating they put another bag in for the next watch. Everybody gets hot stew in a bowl. Cookies (peanut butter and oatmeal) are good snack foods--no crispy creams. We also take a good granola and milk for breakfast. Although I have had crew members who were still eating the sandwiches. The week before the race the whole crew meets (mandatory) at the boat to go over the course--check tides and currents, make sure the VHF weather is working, things like that. That is when the crew bring their sleeping bags and sort out the boat. This routine is for everyone to know where everything is located. In the dark of the night, it is hard to find things if someone is tying to tell you. Battery switches, lights, how to get to the bilge, flashlights, etc are all reviewed. We also go over who else is in the race; who is our competitors, who has won before and we also look for places along the route to possibly drop out. We were in one race with fifty-five knot winds and I should have dropped out sooner but we were unsure of where to go. We also go over safety issues. We were hit by another boat in a Seattle race (we were on starboard and it was late at night) and I now make sure we go over this revuew of procedures; who does what, etc. Our watches are far less structured. Sometimes someone will have a hot hand with the tiller, and sometimes one watch will be doing well that I don't want to break the success they are having. Then it is fun to have one watch try to beat the other one. But most of my crew will know that we play this by ear. If we were doing a Vic-Maui race, I'd probably go for a more structured watch system. There is an excellent book if you can find a copy entitled: "Across the Western Ocean" by William Snaith. There is a lot of good advice on how to treat a crew. I wish you best of luck in your race. Go for it. And let us know how you did! Les
I've won five overnight races (some in class, some overall) here in the Pacific Northwest and took second in the Strait of Georgia race one year. To give proper perspective, we've also been dead last and have dropped out of a number of races--so it averages out. Having a watch schedule seems to me to be the least important item in racing at night. Making sure the crew has proper clothing (here in the northwest that means foul weather gear), plenty of proper food (more on this later) and knowledge of where we're going, what the currents are doing and the dangers along the way. I'd put food as an important item for the crew. No sardines and whipped cream sandwiches for an overnighter. We have two types of food, one for storms and one for regular sailing. Sandwiches (peanut butter and jelly, turkey, roast beef--anything that is bland) wrapped in individual wrappers and well labeled. That is for storms. We take fifty sandwiches for six guys. If the weather allows, I have frozen beef stew in one quart bags that will feed three guys. This I make ahead of time and freeze it in Seal-A-Bags. Then around dinner time we heat a pressure cooker half full of water, when boiling, place bag of stew in cooker and continuing boiling Without the pressure gizmo on top. In twenty minutes you have hot stew with french bread. When the first watch is eating they put another bag in for the next watch. Everybody gets hot stew in a bowl. Cookies (peanut butter and oatmeal) are good snack foods--no crispy creams. We also take a good granola and milk for breakfast. Although I have had crew members who were still eating the sandwiches. The week before the race the whole crew meets (mandatory) at the boat to go over the course--check tides and currents, make sure the VHF weather is working, things like that. That is when the crew bring their sleeping bags and sort out the boat. This routine is for everyone to know where everything is located. In the dark of the night, it is hard to find things if someone is tying to tell you. Battery switches, lights, how to get to the bilge, flashlights, etc are all reviewed. We also go over who else is in the race; who is our competitors, who has won before and we also look for places along the route to possibly drop out. We were in one race with fifty-five knot winds and I should have dropped out sooner but we were unsure of where to go. We also go over safety issues. We were hit by another boat in a Seattle race (we were on starboard and it was late at night) and I now make sure we go over this revuew of procedures; who does what, etc. Our watches are far less structured. Sometimes someone will have a hot hand with the tiller, and sometimes one watch will be doing well that I don't want to break the success they are having. Then it is fun to have one watch try to beat the other one. But most of my crew will know that we play this by ear. If we were doing a Vic-Maui race, I'd probably go for a more structured watch system. There is an excellent book if you can find a copy entitled: "Across the Western Ocean" by William Snaith. There is a lot of good advice on how to treat a crew. I wish you best of luck in your race. Go for it. And let us know how you did! Les
For John Richard
John, Is this the Newport to Ensenada Race? If so, let me know if you need crew. That race is one I dream about doing someday. What is the name of your boat and what kind is it. I'll be watching for the results to see how you do. Sincerely, Darrel Winner, Navigators award, 2002 Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race
John, Is this the Newport to Ensenada Race? If so, let me know if you need crew. That race is one I dream about doing someday. What is the name of your boat and what kind is it. I'll be watching for the results to see how you do. Sincerely, Darrel Winner, Navigators award, 2002 Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race
Back to Darrel
Darrel, I wish I would have known you wanted a ride. You could have joined us. Send me an email at jrichard012@comcast.net and we'll work on next year. Looks like you are more than qualified. Yes, it is the Newport to Ensenada race. It starts on 4-23-04. There should be in the neighborhood of 450 boats competing. Winds are expected to be about 120 off the starboard bow. The last two years produced high winds and record times. Roy Disney and Dennis Conner both participate. Check the web site: www.nosa.org. for particulars. Our boat will race in the Cruising Gennaker Class A. She's rated at 108 with an extra 30 seconds added for cruising equipment. The boat is a 2001 Hunter 410, sail number 56206 and is called Jack's Place. Regards, John Richard
Darrel, I wish I would have known you wanted a ride. You could have joined us. Send me an email at jrichard012@comcast.net and we'll work on next year. Looks like you are more than qualified. Yes, it is the Newport to Ensenada race. It starts on 4-23-04. There should be in the neighborhood of 450 boats competing. Winds are expected to be about 120 off the starboard bow. The last two years produced high winds and record times. Roy Disney and Dennis Conner both participate. Check the web site: www.nosa.org. for particulars. Our boat will race in the Cruising Gennaker Class A. She's rated at 108 with an extra 30 seconds added for cruising equipment. The boat is a 2001 Hunter 410, sail number 56206 and is called Jack's Place. Regards, John Richard
Thank You, John
I grew up in So. Cal. Buena Park to be exact. 15th Street in Newport and Huntington Beach were the beaches we hung out at in our younger years. Thanks for the consideration. I will e-mail you and see if things could work out. The boat that I have crewed on is a Moorings/Beneteau 38. Boat name E-Ticket (after the Disneyland ticket book, remember the E Tickets were this best rides) Any way we have done quite well over the years on the boat. We were the overall winners in the Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race in 2002 and then won our PHRF class at Key West Race Week the following week. We have competited in the Ft.Laud to KW race every year since 1998 after finishing 4th that first year we finished either 1st or 2nd in class until the overall win in 2002. Dennis Conner was on a boat named Carrera that year. Good luck to you and your crew in this years Newport to Ensenada race, I will be checking the web site and try to keep up with how you do. sincerely, Darrel T-33, Aegis
I grew up in So. Cal. Buena Park to be exact. 15th Street in Newport and Huntington Beach were the beaches we hung out at in our younger years. Thanks for the consideration. I will e-mail you and see if things could work out. The boat that I have crewed on is a Moorings/Beneteau 38. Boat name E-Ticket (after the Disneyland ticket book, remember the E Tickets were this best rides) Any way we have done quite well over the years on the boat. We were the overall winners in the Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race in 2002 and then won our PHRF class at Key West Race Week the following week. We have competited in the Ft.Laud to KW race every year since 1998 after finishing 4th that first year we finished either 1st or 2nd in class until the overall win in 2002. Dennis Conner was on a boat named Carrera that year. Good luck to you and your crew in this years Newport to Ensenada race, I will be checking the web site and try to keep up with how you do. sincerely, Darrel T-33, Aegis
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