I was out sailing today with my in-laws when a situation came up. We were on a port run when one of the local tourists sail boats came from astern on the same tack. He was on the lee side. He was within 5-10 feet of me before I tacked. he claimed that under rule 12, as the vessel to windward it was my responsibility to give way. I was under the impression that under rule 13, as the passing vessel he had to give way. Am I interpreting the rules wrong? Thanks Bob
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Miles
Rule 13(a)...
says "Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II (which includes the sailing rules), any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." Sounds like you were right but I suppose one could debate the meaning of "notwithstanding"... In any case it sounds like there was no collision so that's good!
says "Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II (which includes the sailing rules), any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." Sounds like you were right but I suppose one could debate the meaning of "notwithstanding"... In any case it sounds like there was no collision so that's good!
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Dave
Avoiding Collisions
In a sailboat race he would have right of way when he got an overlap on you, in other words when his bow passed your mast. He would then have luffing rights and could turn directly into you forcing you to take emergency manuevers to yield. If this was just a liesurely day sail then the boat to leeward has the right of way if the boats are sailing together. In an overtaking situation he has a responsibility to use sound signals to indicate his intentions to pass you on starboard or port and to try to communicate with you on the radio or any other means. NO MATTER WHAT BOTH SKIPPERS HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID A COLLISION AND TO TAKE EMERGENCY MANUEVERS TO AVOID EACH OTHER REGARDLESS OF THE RULES!!! In a collision both skippers would share in the blame if neither tried to avoid the collision by stubbornly clinging to right of way rules. My own rule is ASSUME THE OTHER SKIPPER DOESN'T HAVE ANY TRAINING AND NO CLUE!!! It is one thing to be dealing with trained ship captains and another to be dealing with half drunk weekend boaters. Signal your intentions early and stay away from them as best you can. Many times I have been the stand on vessel and wondered if the other skipper knew to yield. Not worth sinking your yacht over. Dave
In a sailboat race he would have right of way when he got an overlap on you, in other words when his bow passed your mast. He would then have luffing rights and could turn directly into you forcing you to take emergency manuevers to yield. If this was just a liesurely day sail then the boat to leeward has the right of way if the boats are sailing together. In an overtaking situation he has a responsibility to use sound signals to indicate his intentions to pass you on starboard or port and to try to communicate with you on the radio or any other means. NO MATTER WHAT BOTH SKIPPERS HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID A COLLISION AND TO TAKE EMERGENCY MANUEVERS TO AVOID EACH OTHER REGARDLESS OF THE RULES!!! In a collision both skippers would share in the blame if neither tried to avoid the collision by stubbornly clinging to right of way rules. My own rule is ASSUME THE OTHER SKIPPER DOESN'T HAVE ANY TRAINING AND NO CLUE!!! It is one thing to be dealing with trained ship captains and another to be dealing with half drunk weekend boaters. Signal your intentions early and stay away from them as best you can. Many times I have been the stand on vessel and wondered if the other skipper knew to yield. Not worth sinking your yacht over. Dave
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Bob
I agree, avoid collision at all cost
Believe me, I WON'T get into a collision just to prove a point, but I would expect a captain of a comercial ship with passangers for hire to know the rules better than a weekend sailor. I might also add, that this was not in the middle of some narrow channel, but in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay. Even if he had the right of way, he had no need to set such a close course. Bob
Believe me, I WON'T get into a collision just to prove a point, but I would expect a captain of a comercial ship with passangers for hire to know the rules better than a weekend sailor. I might also add, that this was not in the middle of some narrow channel, but in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay. Even if he had the right of way, he had no need to set such a close course. Bob
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Rule Zero
To me, rule zero is return to shore intact. Last weekend I was sailing a friend's KP46 out of Portland Harbor. In the choke before open water a large tanker came up astern. We lit the engines and were out of the way 1/4 mile before he reached us. As we sailed into largely open water, wind is to starboard, and we're hard on the wind. He comes out of the break and throttles up, the starts coming port into us. I cheat but there is a ledge to port that I can hit. I can't jibe around because there is another boat down below and behind me, and he's hedging me in. He starts blowing five horns at us. We're in deep water except for that ledge. He has tons of room to starboard. He is not constrained by draft or anything else. I am under sail. More five horns. Eventually I did the only thing I could which was tack toward him when he was a couple of hundred yards to windward. We made the tack with a hundred yards to spare, but way closer to him than I wanted to be. He was not yet in ballast and I could feel his propwash. Was he wrong? Yep. Was I going to get in an accident over it? Nope. The next time the Irving Eskimo is in town am I going to talk to the master. You bet. Justin - O'day Owners' web
To me, rule zero is return to shore intact. Last weekend I was sailing a friend's KP46 out of Portland Harbor. In the choke before open water a large tanker came up astern. We lit the engines and were out of the way 1/4 mile before he reached us. As we sailed into largely open water, wind is to starboard, and we're hard on the wind. He comes out of the break and throttles up, the starts coming port into us. I cheat but there is a ledge to port that I can hit. I can't jibe around because there is another boat down below and behind me, and he's hedging me in. He starts blowing five horns at us. We're in deep water except for that ledge. He has tons of room to starboard. He is not constrained by draft or anything else. I am under sail. More five horns. Eventually I did the only thing I could which was tack toward him when he was a couple of hundred yards to windward. We made the tack with a hundred yards to spare, but way closer to him than I wanted to be. He was not yet in ballast and I could feel his propwash. Was he wrong? Yep. Was I going to get in an accident over it? Nope. The next time the Irving Eskimo is in town am I going to talk to the master. You bet. Justin - O'day Owners' web
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Mike
Commercial Operators
I find that most people who operate any vehicle for a living often have no regard for private operators. That goes for city buses, fishing boats, truck drivers, cab drivers, etc. So the best bet is avoid the accident & report them to the proper authorities.
I find that most people who operate any vehicle for a living often have no regard for private operators. That goes for city buses, fishing boats, truck drivers, cab drivers, etc. So the best bet is avoid the accident & report them to the proper authorities.
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hp
rules are very clear
He would be the give way craft in an overtaking situation (until he is "CLEAR" of you)..You (the stand on craft)are to hold course and only take evasive action when collision is eminent......(I just sat and passed the C.G. rules of the road test)
He would be the give way craft in an overtaking situation (until he is "CLEAR" of you)..You (the stand on craft)are to hold course and only take evasive action when collision is eminent......(I just sat and passed the C.G. rules of the road test)
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Brad Stone
Agree with hp...
I was in the same situation last fall as I was crossing the mouth of a large bay to starboard in my 26 footer. Tons of water, little traffic. A larger, faster sailboat came from astern, came along on my port side (no more than 8' separating us). He slowly pulled ahead, and when his stern was barely clear of my bow (about 3 or 4'), turned to starboard toward the bay. I turned to port, not liking the "direct hit, T-bone" position. It was too close, and there was no need, as he easily could have ducked us. Aside from wanting to follow and pummel the guy, a debate broke out among the "racers" I had as guests that day. I went to the local Coast Guard to ask. They said he was an overtaking vessel, and if they had seen this occur, they would have fined him ($500, I think). Some seem confused between The Racing Rules and COLREGS, which differ. Here's the governing COLREG: Rule 13 Overtaking (a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. (b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights. (c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly. (d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear. As others have stated, being "right" is of little comfort if a collision occurs, so avoiding one is "THE" rule.
I was in the same situation last fall as I was crossing the mouth of a large bay to starboard in my 26 footer. Tons of water, little traffic. A larger, faster sailboat came from astern, came along on my port side (no more than 8' separating us). He slowly pulled ahead, and when his stern was barely clear of my bow (about 3 or 4'), turned to starboard toward the bay. I turned to port, not liking the "direct hit, T-bone" position. It was too close, and there was no need, as he easily could have ducked us. Aside from wanting to follow and pummel the guy, a debate broke out among the "racers" I had as guests that day. I went to the local Coast Guard to ask. They said he was an overtaking vessel, and if they had seen this occur, they would have fined him ($500, I think). Some seem confused between The Racing Rules and COLREGS, which differ. Here's the governing COLREG: Rule 13 Overtaking (a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. (b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights. (c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly. (d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear. As others have stated, being "right" is of little comfort if a collision occurs, so avoiding one is "THE" rule.
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Brad Elbein
Been there, done that
I had the same situation up on the lake last week. Some jerk in a big boat--C42, I think--approached my C30 at about 5 o'clock (120 degrees), apparently planning to pass me by crossing my bow. We were both on port tack, but he was the overtaking boat. I waited for him to bear off, then waved, then yelled, and eventually blew a horn at him. SOB waved, like, "Howdy to you too." Luckily, I don't own a shotgun. The stupid bastard put my whole crew at risk, and his too, because he was completely oblivious to anyone else out on the lake. Usually it's powerboaters, but the number of stupid sailboaters is increasing too.
I had the same situation up on the lake last week. Some jerk in a big boat--C42, I think--approached my C30 at about 5 o'clock (120 degrees), apparently planning to pass me by crossing my bow. We were both on port tack, but he was the overtaking boat. I waited for him to bear off, then waved, then yelled, and eventually blew a horn at him. SOB waved, like, "Howdy to you too." Luckily, I don't own a shotgun. The stupid bastard put my whole crew at risk, and his too, because he was completely oblivious to anyone else out on the lake. Usually it's powerboaters, but the number of stupid sailboaters is increasing too.
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Dakota Jim Russell
Rule #1 - Louder the voice, the dumber the mind
Ah but you forgot rule #1 . . . <grin> Had a similar sort of situation in the BVIs with a hot sailor in a 50 something or other with some young gals on board climbing up the tail on my Moorings 32 . . . . He eventually passed to the leeward as for some stupid reason he couldn't get windward of me.
Ah but you forgot rule #1 . . . <grin> Had a similar sort of situation in the BVIs with a hot sailor in a 50 something or other with some young gals on board climbing up the tail on my Moorings 32 . . . . He eventually passed to the leeward as for some stupid reason he couldn't get windward of me.
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Larry
Right of way
Bob; I had a similar thing happen. A very large power boat, the one who's owner or skipper was arrested and vessel siezed in Mexico for having automatic weapons aboard, was an overtaking vessel and passed me very close aboard. I was motorsailing with the main up, which technically makes me a power vessel. On channel 16 I thanked him for all the room he gave me. He claimed to be a commercial vessel and said I was supposed to keep out of his way. What kind of commerce was he involved in, transporting tourists to Catalina? Mike of Hungtington nailed it when he said commercial operators; tugs, towboats, etc., especially commercial fishermen, have little regard for yachts. I've had fishermen give me the right of way by shaving my stern as close as possible. As a result, I always try to avoid them, in the same way I never respond to rude gestures from other drivers.
Bob; I had a similar thing happen. A very large power boat, the one who's owner or skipper was arrested and vessel siezed in Mexico for having automatic weapons aboard, was an overtaking vessel and passed me very close aboard. I was motorsailing with the main up, which technically makes me a power vessel. On channel 16 I thanked him for all the room he gave me. He claimed to be a commercial vessel and said I was supposed to keep out of his way. What kind of commerce was he involved in, transporting tourists to Catalina? Mike of Hungtington nailed it when he said commercial operators; tugs, towboats, etc., especially commercial fishermen, have little regard for yachts. I've had fishermen give me the right of way by shaving my stern as close as possible. As a result, I always try to avoid them, in the same way I never respond to rude gestures from other drivers.
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John V.
Rules of the Road practice
Is there a simulator piece of software so one can practice this without risk? Thanks, jv
Is there a simulator piece of software so one can practice this without risk? Thanks, jv
Killer instinct
All this familiar chatter about rules and those who ignore them makes me think of just two things: 1. Have the fastest da*n boat out there and out-sail everyone without having to 'win' on rules. No one will overtake ME!!! -hahahahahahahah! 2. Stage target practice with the flare gun (don't take that seriously-- sailors don't need to foster road rage!!! But wouldn't it be fun if....). JC
All this familiar chatter about rules and those who ignore them makes me think of just two things: 1. Have the fastest da*n boat out there and out-sail everyone without having to 'win' on rules. No one will overtake ME!!! -hahahahahahahah! 2. Stage target practice with the flare gun (don't take that seriously-- sailors don't need to foster road rage!!! But wouldn't it be fun if....). JC
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Dave
commercial operators
I have to come to the defense of commercial operators. They are SCARED of yachtsmen! Scared to death that you have no clue. And many recreational boater don't. Also remember that a tug/barge is considered "restricted in ability to manouver" and may also be "restricted by draft" So, if a tug/barge gives way to you (as a recreational boater) he is being kind, expecially if he is in the shipping lanes. In those conditions, he has right of way, regardless of whether you are under sail or power. Oh, one way to get on the good side of a commercial operator is to give him a call on 13 and make a passing agreement ahead of time. It is standard practice for commercial operators to call each other, and it sould be standard practice for us to do the same (in fact it is REQUIRED by the rules of the road, which we choose to ignore most of the time). When I was bringing my C-30 down from Annapolis non-stop, we had tons of commercial traffic comming up and down the Bay. After dark, I made sure I called them on 13 and made passing arrangements. It made the trip in the dark MUCH less stressful. I knew where they were going and they knew where I was going. Please try it some time, they will respond well and be thankful you called.
I have to come to the defense of commercial operators. They are SCARED of yachtsmen! Scared to death that you have no clue. And many recreational boater don't. Also remember that a tug/barge is considered "restricted in ability to manouver" and may also be "restricted by draft" So, if a tug/barge gives way to you (as a recreational boater) he is being kind, expecially if he is in the shipping lanes. In those conditions, he has right of way, regardless of whether you are under sail or power. Oh, one way to get on the good side of a commercial operator is to give him a call on 13 and make a passing agreement ahead of time. It is standard practice for commercial operators to call each other, and it sould be standard practice for us to do the same (in fact it is REQUIRED by the rules of the road, which we choose to ignore most of the time). When I was bringing my C-30 down from Annapolis non-stop, we had tons of commercial traffic comming up and down the Bay. After dark, I made sure I called them on 13 and made passing arrangements. It made the trip in the dark MUCH less stressful. I knew where they were going and they knew where I was going. Please try it some time, they will respond well and be thankful you called.
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Michael McCann
Rules
Two sailing vessels, sailing, on the same tack, (not racing) the windward vessel is burdened, and the vessel to leward is the stand on vessel. Motor vessels only have the right of way over a sailing vessel sailing when they are restricted in their ability to maneuver, by draft, room (traffic lanes), or other restrictions. Commercial, or otherwise. You, as the skipper of a vessel are required to understand these basic rules.
Two sailing vessels, sailing, on the same tack, (not racing) the windward vessel is burdened, and the vessel to leward is the stand on vessel. Motor vessels only have the right of way over a sailing vessel sailing when they are restricted in their ability to maneuver, by draft, room (traffic lanes), or other restrictions. Commercial, or otherwise. You, as the skipper of a vessel are required to understand these basic rules.
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Dave
Disagree with Michael
I believe (I have a 100 ton Master's) that Micheal is wrong under certain situations. One such situation is when passing. It does not matter whether you are under sail or power. If you are passing, the boat you are passing has right of way until your bow passes his centerline.
I believe (I have a 100 ton Master's) that Micheal is wrong under certain situations. One such situation is when passing. It does not matter whether you are under sail or power. If you are passing, the boat you are passing has right of way until your bow passes his centerline.
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Michael McCann
Rules
Dave; You are correct, however I did not specify passing, only sailing on the same tack. I did not bring any other complications into the situation, only two sailing vessels under sail only. Which, I believe is the situation Bob described. He only said that the boat came from astern, not that there was a passing situation. I have been an avid student of all aspects of boating since 1982, as I believe I am required to know what I'm doing as well as what others should be doing. Michael
Dave; You are correct, however I did not specify passing, only sailing on the same tack. I did not bring any other complications into the situation, only two sailing vessels under sail only. Which, I believe is the situation Bob described. He only said that the boat came from astern, not that there was a passing situation. I have been an avid student of all aspects of boating since 1982, as I believe I am required to know what I'm doing as well as what others should be doing. Michael
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Rob Rich
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