VHF Radio decision

kenn · Nov 11, 2009

VHF Radios are fairly inexpensive now. A basic mounted VHF radio, with a masthead antenna & wiring, can be purchased for less than $200, and it "gets out" (transmits and recieves) really well.

A good handheld is over $100 but won't "get out" as well as the mounted radio, because of a smaller antenna and the fact that the antenna isn't high.

We have a newer but inexpensive mounted ICOM VHF. It came with the boat, and this year I put on a proper masthead antenna. Battery drain for receive isn't alot and you can always turn it off when desired. We also have a very inexpensive Cobra VHF handheld (refurbished - $20) cos I couldn't pass it up.

For your requirements, a good handheld should suffice.

dserrell · Nov 11, 2009

higgs · Nov 11, 2009

A handheld will have a range of maybe up to 1-4 miles in good conditions. Many times it will be far less than that. You can get a good standard horizon for less than $100, but you will need an antenna. Masthead mount is the best. VHF works on line of sight so the higher your antenna the better.

Forget Cobra for marine radios.

Benny · Nov 11, 2009

Really you need both. The portable can sit by you on the cockpit to talk with marinas and other boats and the fixed unit can be in the in the cockpit protected from weather for when you need to get out there. There are remote speakers and wirelless mikes but they do not offer the backup of an additional unit. If I had to choose between the two I would go with the fixed unit. Close to shore I find a cell phone works very well.

sailingdog · Nov 11, 2009

I would highly recommend getting a fixed radio, if you can only afford one. The reason is range.

As for brands, stick with Icom or Standard Horizon.

Definitely spend the extra money to get a decent DSC unit that has both NMEA input and output, and get an MMSI number. If you get one that only has NMEA input, then you'll lose a fair bit of the utility of the unit IMHO.

Andreas T · Nov 11, 2009

Good handheld: ICOM IC-M34

For the handheld, I can strongly recommend ICOM IC-M34. It is relatively small, floatable, affordable and has a long battery life.

Andreas

Scott B · Nov 11, 2009

Squadron said:
Some additional info, since the type of radio really depends on the type or boating I'm planning on doing:

She's a 22' boat, so I'm not planning on doing a whole lot of long-range cruises. Maybe 10 miles out, and almost 100% likely always in sight of other boats and land. Eventually we want to try cruising a little of the intracoastal.

Sounds like you already know that VHF is "line of sight" i.e. the antennas have to see each other to communicate.

Neat calculator on VHF/UHF Line of Sight Distance Calculator With a 30 ft. height you get 8 miles from your VHF, with 6 ft. you get only 3 miles.

Using a handheald could mean you will be relying on another boat to help you in emergency vs. reaching the CG.

dserrell · Nov 11, 2009

Scott B said:
Sounds like you already know that VHF is "line of sight" i.e. the antennas have to see each other to communicate.

Neat calculator on VHF/UHF Line of Sight Distance Calculator With a 30 ft. height you get 8 miles from your VHF, with 6 ft. you get only 3 miles.

Using a handheald could mean you will be relying on another boat to help you in emergency vs. reaching the CG.

Scott,

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]VHF radios are available in both fixed-mount and hand-held models. All fixed-mount VHFs have a maximum output of 25 watts, the maximum allowed by the FCC. VHF is a line-of-sight system, which means the radio waves won't bend to follow the curvature of the earth. The VHF antenna must "see" the antenna of a distant station. Therefore, antenna height is more important in determining range than radio wattage. The effective useful range of a VHF radio is 20-25 miles. I believe the curvature of the earth equates to line-of-sight for 6' being 9 miles. I'll try and find supporting documentation![/FONT]

David

sailingdog · Nov 12, 2009

The distance of LOS to the horizon is determined by the formula d (in km) = sqrt (13 * h (in meters)). So a height of 2 meters yields a distance of about 9 km.

Scott B · Nov 12, 2009

dserrell said:
Scott,

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]VHF radios are available in both fixed-mount and hand-held models. All fixed-mount VHFs have a maximum output of 25 watts, the maximum allowed by the FCC. VHF is a line-of-sight system, which means the radio waves won't bend to follow the curvature of the earth. The VHF antenna must "see" the antenna of a distant station. Therefore, antenna height is more important in determining range than radio wattage. The effective useful range of a VHF radio is 20-25 miles. I believe the curvature of the earth equates to line-of-sight for 6' being 9 miles. I'll try and find supporting documentation![/FONT]

David

Isn't that what I said?

Another line of sight calculator VHF Line of Sight and again 30 ft. mast height ( antenna at top of mast ) 8 miles. Of course if the shore antenna is 60 ft. up, i.e. CG, then your line of sight antenna to antenna increases to 19 miles.

6 ft. to the horizon is 3 miles, which is unlikely. 6ft. to 6 ft. handheld is 6 miles, 6 ft. to 30 mast 11 miles and 6ft. to shore 60 ft. 14 miles.

Maine Sail · Nov 12, 2009

I'll agree

I'll agree with the rest. A good fixed mount should be the first choice and then as a second or back up, a hand held unit. The Metz antennas are great units and light weight. I have never had a single issue with a Metz antenna and have been using them for a long, long time. Don't forget to use a quality VHF cable for the antenna like RG-8U or RG-213. Size & connections do matter with coax cable though antenna height will be more important.

As for brands I have found none more consistent, cleaner sounding and consistently reliable than Icom. While I don't currently have and Icom I still HIGHLY recommend them. I currently have a Uniden and as far as I am concerned it is a sub par brand when compared to the Icom's I have both owned and used. Ask Tim R. how my Uniden sounded this summer? I think it's a bad mic but Uniden tech support has been almost non-existent...

Standard Horizon's are also decent and the West Marine units are re-branded Uniden (actually identical units with West Marine on the face).

This is not to say a Uniden's don't work I just don't find them to be as reliable and clean sounding, and sound quality is very important. When it is blowing 30 knots you want a radio that you can understand and hear clearly. An external dedicated VHF speaker is a big plus!!

For a decent proven brand of VHF the Standard Horizon GX1000S is not a bad unit. While not full featured it is a price point breaker in a rugged brand. If it were me, I'd be buying an Icom M-304 as an entry level radio..

Brands I've owned and used (currently own Uniden):

Owned - Icom, Standard Horizon, Raymarine, Uniden

Used - Cobra, Si-Tex

They all work but there are differences between brands. For your defined cruising a hand held would likely have the range but hand held units can leave you without batteries quickly when you TX on high power. The 1 watt setting won't do much other than call a fuel dock from a few hundred yards or call the launch. When you really need a hand held you will be using the high power setting..

kloudie1 · Nov 12, 2009

Talking fixed mounts and handhelds.. It is a good idea to carry an antenna adapter to be able to connect the handheld to the mast top antenna... Fairly inexpensive ($10-15) and makes for a better backup.

dserrell · Nov 12, 2009

Would someone please post the correct informatiion regarding line-of-sight and transmission/reception range for fixed 25 watt VHF radios. I believe the curvature of the earth allows for a 6' line-of-sight to 9 miles. What is the line-of-sight curvature of the earth? I've always heard a fixed 25 watt VHF radio would transmit about 25 miles, if the antenna height was 25'.

This past summer we were about 21 miles offshore from Islamorada, FL and were able to hear transmissions from the USCG station in Key West, which was about 80 miles away. Our masthead mounted antenna height is 28' to the top of the 3' antenna. We did not transmitt to the USCG station, and I don't know the height of their antenna?

Are the formulas in previous posts correct? What are the facts! Thanks!

David

DougM · Nov 12, 2009

My boat has an Icom VHF at the nav desk and I keep an Icom handheld in the cockpit. The hand held has been great for short distance contacts such as requesting bridge tenders to open drawbridges. The handheld has a relatively long battery life and doesn't lose its charge if it sits for a long time.

Its difficult to go below in a narrow navigation area to make a radio call especially if you are the only on aboard. In my opinion, however, I would definitely have both radios.

BobM · Nov 12, 2009

Covered pretty well but...

Be aware that a lot of the bargain VHF's with DSC may not have the most current version of it. [Note that DSC location function only helps you if you have the VHF hooked up to a compatible GPS unit...if so it will tell the GG who you are, what you are and where you are]. Type D sends more information and will only cost you $10 more if you shop around. I just bought the Uniden Polaris for about $120 from Bass Pro Shop and it has a significant safety feature. A wireless mike can be bought for only $60 (just bought one off ebay). The mike is submersible and has all the functions of the head unit, including the DSC emergency button. So if I am solo sailing and fall overboard with it, my automatic life vest will inflate and I can push the DSC button on the wireless mike. So I got that going for me

BobM · Nov 12, 2009

Good idea - NM

kloudie1 said:
Talking fixed mounts and handhelds.. It is a good idea to carry an antenna adapter to be able to connect the handheld to the mast top antenna... Fairly inexpensive ($10-15) and makes for a better backup.

This is a good idea. Another good idea is to get a unit with a holder for disposable batteries...just in case you forget to charge it

. My Standard Horizon came with one, but the main battery is so darned good that I charged it once three seasons ago and haven't had to charge it again. The only downside to it is that it doesn't have a good state of charge indicator. It is also bigger than most current units, which you can put in your pocket. On the plus side I haven't lost it

BobM · Nov 12, 2009

Re: Covered pretty well but...

Also, I think DSC is more than just the CG. It sends to others around you as well (D includes all ships). Also, a cell phone may help as a back up, but only if you have the right phone numbers (local harbor master, CG, etc...) and know your covered from a signal perspective.

**The Coast Guard urges, in the strongest terms possible, that you take the time to interconnect your GPS and DSC-equipped radio. Doing so may save your life in a distress situation! Before interconnecting your radio & GPS consult the owner's manuals.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/MARCOMMS/gmdss/dsc.htm

Maine Sail · Nov 12, 2009

dserrell said:
Would someone please post the correct informatiion regarding line-of-sight and transmission/reception range for fixed 25 watt VHF radios. I believe the curvature of the earth allows for a 6' line-of-sight to 9 miles.

Using the VHF line of sight calculator, based on (6 feet to LOS horizon), the VHF LOS is 3 miles. This is accounting for a second antenna height of 0 feet which is unrealistic unless Bob was in the water with his wham mic.. With two antennas, both at 6 feet, the LOS is 6 miles.

Even at 56 feet, the height of my antenna, the radio horizon is only 11 miles to a 0 foot target. Make it a six foot target and you can now communicate 14 miles between a 56 foot high antenna and a 6 foot antenna.

I don't know of a calculator that takes wattage etc. into account. Of course wattage and output is entirely dependent upon your antenna quality and the coax resistance between the VHF and antenna, weather and a host of other factors plus the actual real wattage of your particular radio is would make it tough to put into a calculator.