would it be a bad thing to put the vented loop, that is between the pump and bowl, in the head compartment (safety, aesthetically, etc)
vented loop in head compartment
- Thread starter fiestaMojo
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It would be very GOOD thing
Be sure to put it high enough...it needs to be 6-8" above water line AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL, not just when the boat's at rest....which on most sailboats puts 2-3 FEET above the bowl. See attached photo.
Too many people these days--and builders too--think decor is more important than safety...but that should only matter in a condo that DOESN'T float. The closer to the toilet the loop is, the better, 'cuz it cuts down on the number of pump strokes to move bowl contents over the top of the loop...then gravity can do the rest.
Be sure to put it high enough...it needs to be 6-8" above water line AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL, not just when the boat's at rest....which on most sailboats puts 2-3 FEET above the bowl. See attached photo.
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I hope you meant "6 - 8". I haven't seen many boats with a box for the vented loop on the cabin top
This is one of the reasons I prefer the simple arrangement of everything going into the tank first and the pumping the tank out when legal with a dedicated pump. I have a shorter line from the head to the tank, no "Y" valve which can leak ever so slightly but still enough at it's seals to make it's presence known. I don't have to remember to change pumping configuration. I don't have a lot of plumbing running all over the walls of the head. (The other vented loop for the intake line is hidden).
It makes a lot less sense now that I'll be spending so much time in waters where direct discharge is permitted but, what the heck, I need the exercise and it doesn't take long to pump the holding tank out. I've got lots of time now.
I may feel differently by the end of the summer in which case adding a diverter valve won't be difficult.
You can't put a vented loop in the intake. The valve works by closing under pressure and open by vacuum. The pump creates a vacuum in the intake loop to draw in water. If you have a vented loop, it'll just draw in air.
The only vented loop is between the pump and the bowl. The pump creates water pressure when pushing water to the bowl thus closes the valve. Once the pressure is relieved, the valve opens and break the vacuum to prevent siphon.
Have a look at the manual or go to the Jebsco web site.
The only vented loop is between the pump and the bowl. The pump creates water pressure when pushing water to the bowl thus closes the valve. Once the pressure is relieved, the valve opens and break the vacuum to prevent siphon.
Have a look at the manual or go to the Jebsco web site.
Brain burps and typos from all directions!
I knew you were talking about the intake...dunno why I decided to take a side trip into discharge loops too! And good catch, Roger...I've fixed it.
Alex, you need to read his post again.... His only issue is the aesthetics of a loop hanging on a bulkhead in the head for everyone to see vs. hiding the d'd thing somewhere. He knows the right place to put it...he SAID "between the pump and the bowl." And that's where it is in the photo I posted.
Which, btw, is where it has to go in every below-waterline manual toilet installation, not just Jabsco....and also electric toilets that have a connecting line between the pump and the bowl.
In electric toilet installations that don't have a connecting line between the pump and the bowl, it has to go in the line between the thru-hull and the toilet...in which case, the air valve in it has to be an electric solenoid valve (there's more than one type of solenoid valve, so be sure it's the right kind!) that's wired to the flush button...pushing the button also closes the valve so the intake pump can prime...releasing the flush button opens it again to break any siphon.
I knew you were talking about the intake...dunno why I decided to take a side trip into discharge loops too! And good catch, Roger...I've fixed it.
Alex, you need to read his post again.... His only issue is the aesthetics of a loop hanging on a bulkhead in the head for everyone to see vs. hiding the d'd thing somewhere. He knows the right place to put it...he SAID "between the pump and the bowl." And that's where it is in the photo I posted.
Which, btw, is where it has to go in every below-waterline manual toilet installation, not just Jabsco....and also electric toilets that have a connecting line between the pump and the bowl.
In electric toilet installations that don't have a connecting line between the pump and the bowl, it has to go in the line between the thru-hull and the toilet...in which case, the air valve in it has to be an electric solenoid valve (there's more than one type of solenoid valve, so be sure it's the right kind!) that's wired to the flush button...pushing the button also closes the valve so the intake pump can prime...releasing the flush button opens it again to break any siphon.
OK, so "your" "intake" means the line between the pump and bowl. I get it.
We have a "hidden" vented loop in that line which is way in the back of the hanging locker in the adjacent nav station. When I install my new PHII, that dumb so-far-out-of-sight-vented loop is moving into the head compartment so I can check the valve regularly. It hasn't been looked at in 25 years!!!
Since we sail a lot on the ocean, I personally disagree with the concept of routing everything through the tank. If it can go overboard directly, and legally, I see no sense to adding another step to the process, so my plumbing is arranged to either go to the tank when inshore, or right out when offshore.
Just my preference, and it's not too hard to do with a single valve between the head outlet and the holding tank: close the overboard discharge thru hull, open that valve and it goes into the tank. Close that valve, open the seacock and out it goes.
Your boat, your choice.
We have a "hidden" vented loop in that line which is way in the back of the hanging locker in the adjacent nav station. When I install my new PHII, that dumb so-far-out-of-sight-vented loop is moving into the head compartment so I can check the valve regularly. It hasn't been looked at in 25 years!!!
Since we sail a lot on the ocean, I personally disagree with the concept of routing everything through the tank. If it can go overboard directly, and legally, I see no sense to adding another step to the process, so my plumbing is arranged to either go to the tank when inshore, or right out when offshore.
Just my preference, and it's not too hard to do with a single valve between the head outlet and the holding tank: close the overboard discharge thru hull, open that valve and it goes into the tank. Close that valve, open the seacock and out it goes.
Your boat, your choice.
No Stu, I don't think you do get it...
His "intake"--and mine--includes everything from the the thru-hull to bowl. There are two segments to it: thru-hull to pump, pump to bowl. Vented loop has to go in the pump-bowl segment.
I dunno exactly how this turned into such a major hoo-ha, 'cuz he knew where to put it...all wanted to know was whether it would be ok to mount the intake vented loop in plain siight in the head, or whether he has to hide it. I said it would be just fine and the thread promptly jumped the fence and took off into the woods!
Now...about YOUR intake vented loop, Stu... After 25 years the air valve might as well not be there...in fact, I seriously doubt that it's even still a VENTED loop. Salt and sea water minerals clogged it up a couple of decades ago. If it has a vent line on it instead of an air valve, get rid of it! Lines on vented loops are a horrible idea, 'cuz they're so small that they clog up almost immediately.
His "intake"--and mine--includes everything from the the thru-hull to bowl. There are two segments to it: thru-hull to pump, pump to bowl. Vented loop has to go in the pump-bowl segment.
I dunno exactly how this turned into such a major hoo-ha, 'cuz he knew where to put it...all wanted to know was whether it would be ok to mount the intake vented loop in plain siight in the head, or whether he has to hide it. I said it would be just fine and the thread promptly jumped the fence and took off into the woods!
Now...about YOUR intake vented loop, Stu... After 25 years the air valve might as well not be there...in fact, I seriously doubt that it's even still a VENTED loop. Salt and sea water minerals clogged it up a couple of decades ago. If it has a vent line on it instead of an air valve, get rid of it! Lines on vented loops are a horrible idea, 'cuz they're so small that they clog up almost immediately.
We have just purchased a new Catalina 30 and need to redo the waste system. Right now the discharge is routed directly overboard, with no holding tank. I would just like to make sure that I understand the set up correctly. I've been looking at the schematics of sanitation systems in both the West Marine Advisor and Calders book - both seem to show a vented loop in the raw water intake pipe and the waste pipe to the thru hull. I understand that the loop on the intake pipe should be between the toilet pump and the bowl. The vented loop for the waste pipe is down stream of the outflow pump prior to the thru hull. The outflow pump can be manual or electric and is down stream of the Y valve (assuming you put the Y valve downstream of the tank, as preferred by the coast guard). The pipe to the Waste Deck Fitting does not need a pump as it will be offloaded at a dock pump out facility. The tank should be vented overboard just below the toe rail using a thru hull fitting.
Any errors in thinking here? Our Catalina 30 is 1975 and doesn't appear to have any vented loops - assuming a PO installation - and the schematics from the Catalina 30 website don't show vented loops. I'm pretty sure the whole system is below water line and requires them.
Thanks for helping a complete novice.
Tracy
Any errors in thinking here? Our Catalina 30 is 1975 and doesn't appear to have any vented loops - assuming a PO installation - and the schematics from the Catalina 30 website don't show vented loops. I'm pretty sure the whole system is below water line and requires them.
Thanks for helping a complete novice.
Tracy
(assuming you put the Y valve downstream of the tank, as preferred by the coast guard)
Unless this is a law (Peggie?), your other choice is to have the Y valve before the tank, and choose to save or dump without having to always run stuff thru the tank. Just another feasible option if allowed legally.
Unless this is a law (Peggie?), your other choice is to have the Y valve before the tank, and choose to save or dump without having to always run stuff thru the tank. Just another feasible option if allowed legally.
Yep...vented loops are needed here...
I understand that the loop on the intake pipe should be between the toilet pump and the bowl.
Good! That puts you in the top 10% of the class already! :dance:
The vented loop for the waste pipe is down stream of the outflow pump prior to the thru hull.
Not necessarily...it depends on whether you're talking about a loop in the TANK overboard discharge line or a loop in the TOILET discharge line. The loop in a tank overboard discharge line DOES belong between the pump and the thru-hull...but if you plumb the system to allow the toilet to be flushed directly overboard and sea or in Canadian waters where that's legal, I'd put the loop immediately after the toilet, ahead of the y-valve. The Coast Guard doesn't care which--in fact, you can have it both ways if you really want to...and IMO, it's a lot easier to flush overboard than have to mess with dumping a tank that didn't have to be filled. .but if you also opt to be able to dump the tank, I'd put TWO discharge ports in the tank to eliminate that y-valve.
The outflow pump can be manual or electric and is down stream of the Y valve...
Correct...if you go with electric, I'd go with a diaphragm pump, not a macerator pump...diaphragm pumps can run dry without harm. The Dometic/SeaLand "T-Series Sanipump" is by far the best.
The pipe to the Waste Deck Fitting does not need a pump as it will be offloaded at a dock pump out facility..
In fact, any pump in that line would create MAJOR problems because it would interfere with pumpout.
The tank should be vented overboard just below the toe rail using a thru hull fitting.
1", using a "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull.
Where in the boat do you plan to put the tank, and where will you get it?
If you need more specific help than is practical in a discussion forum, email me...I'll be glad to help you get it right the FIRST time.
I understand that the loop on the intake pipe should be between the toilet pump and the bowl.
Good! That puts you in the top 10% of the class already! :dance:
The vented loop for the waste pipe is down stream of the outflow pump prior to the thru hull.
Not necessarily...it depends on whether you're talking about a loop in the TANK overboard discharge line or a loop in the TOILET discharge line. The loop in a tank overboard discharge line DOES belong between the pump and the thru-hull...but if you plumb the system to allow the toilet to be flushed directly overboard and sea or in Canadian waters where that's legal, I'd put the loop immediately after the toilet, ahead of the y-valve. The Coast Guard doesn't care which--in fact, you can have it both ways if you really want to...and IMO, it's a lot easier to flush overboard than have to mess with dumping a tank that didn't have to be filled. .but if you also opt to be able to dump the tank, I'd put TWO discharge ports in the tank to eliminate that y-valve.
The outflow pump can be manual or electric and is down stream of the Y valve...
Correct...if you go with electric, I'd go with a diaphragm pump, not a macerator pump...diaphragm pumps can run dry without harm. The Dometic/SeaLand "T-Series Sanipump" is by far the best.
The pipe to the Waste Deck Fitting does not need a pump as it will be offloaded at a dock pump out facility..
In fact, any pump in that line would create MAJOR problems because it would interfere with pumpout.
The tank should be vented overboard just below the toe rail using a thru hull fitting.
1", using a "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull.
Where in the boat do you plan to put the tank, and where will you get it?
If you need more specific help than is practical in a discussion forum, email me...I'll be glad to help you get it right the FIRST time.
Thanks
I would love to email you but where do i find the link at the bottom?
Tracy
(I was thinking of getting the tank from Catalina Direct - assuming the dimensions would all fit)
I would love to email you but where do i find the link at the bottom?
Tracy
(I was thinking of getting the tank from Catalina Direct - assuming the dimensions would all fit)
How to send an email from here
It's only the link to my book that's at the bottom...to send an email, click on my name in the box at the left of my posts...you'll see a choice of "private message" or, if the member has included an email address in his/her profile, "email"...PULEEEEEEEEEEEZE use the email option for me...I hate PMs!
Ronco Plastics (no relation to the VegoMatic Ronco) Ronco Plastics has made water and waste tanks for Catalina for several decades, so they should have one that'll fit. The only question is who has the best price--Catalina Direct or the online store right here on this site...or even buying direct from Ronco.
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