Vega standing rigging

[cmmjenkins]

The Adventures of Capt'n K & Lala | From the Rat Race to a life of sustainability, for better or worse… suggests modern standing rigging "is crap" compared to the original Swedish steel used in Albin Vega\'s.
Is there any element of truth in this?
If I bought a 40 year old boat with original standing rigging my inclination would be to change it ASAP. However I guess that I would not necessarily want to do so if I was replacing it with an inferior product.
- Matthew

 

[cmmjenkins]

The Adventures of Capt'n K & Lala | From the Rat Race to a life of sustainability, for better or worse… <The Adventures of Capt'n K & Lala | From the Rat Race to a life of sustainability, for better or worse…> suggests modern standing
rigging "is crap" compared to the original Swedish steel used in Albin
Vega's.
Is there any truth in this?
If I bought a 40 year old boat with original standing rigging my
inclination would be to change it ASAP. However I guess that I would not
necessarily want to do so if I was replacing it with an inferior
product.
- Matthew


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[tiempo2010]

I'm not sure if the rigging wire was better 40 years ago or not. The best
wire available now according to local riggers is from Korea. Loos wire (US)
is not as good and the Chinese wire is all over the place in quality.

I would certainly replace the rigging if it is 40 years old. While is was
as good or better than what is available now when installed in the 70's it
has had decades of exposure to salt. No matter how good it looks the
connections swages are all suspect.

Not that it makes much difference but was it Swedish wire?

 

[dougpol1]

Well I have made this argument before and been poo-pooed plenty. I
have owned some old boats that had rigging 40 years old or so. I
replaced some fittings but not the wire. Never a problem. I am 78 years
old and have been sailing since a very small child aboard my parents
boat. There boat and some of my early boats had plow shear wire that had
to be kept painted which we did and the wire on my own first boat was
over fifty years old when I got her I sailed her 15 years.. Later I had
a crocker ketch and the rigging was 45 years old when I sold her and she
had the original wire. I had replaced some of the bronze fittings along
the way. The buyer of my boat had a fitting break and lost the mast and
the boat washed up in a marsh in the Carolinas. He left her there. Very
sad! I personally don't know any person that has ever had a whole
rigging wire beak. I have know many who have had a single strand break
but none of those lost a mast because they replaced the damaged wire so
did not lose the mast. I have over the years had a few fittings break
but have never lost a mast. If for example I was planning an ocean
crossing I would take an extra roll of wire and a good supply of
fittings. If I had a wire failure I would make up a new shroud. I would
start my trip with new hedstay fittings as well as back stay fittings
and the upperfittings as well. If the lower shrouds look good I would
not worry about them if there are four of them as on my Vega. IF any one
broke the mast would not go down. As to the lower shrouds we modern
sailors create a problem by tightening them racing boat tight. If I were
going to race I would tighten them and emediatly loosen them again for
cruising and setting at the dock. I think keeping them tight is the
reason for the problems that some have with the mast support sagging.
The Vega is a copy of a wooden boat, On wooden boats they never kept the
shrouds banjo tight. If they did the boats would leak in the garbor
plank. I keep my lowers somewhat loose and I am not yet sailor enough
to tell the difference in her speed. I can't say, I might not loose a
race around the buoys to another Vega with tight shrouds but I would be
willing to bet it would be because the other skipper is a better sailor
than I am. I also think 316 stainless made here in the US used to be as
good as any anywhere in the world. I can't speak for today. I am a
machinist and have machine vast piles of stainless steel American steel
used to be top of the line. Rustless Iron and steel in Baltimore
Md.invented stainless stell under the name Rustless steel. I would not
replace wire until it is over thirty years old, the fittings are another
thing entirely. Riggers have gotten rich replacing perfectly good
rigging wires for about 30 years now. Doug

 

[Vega1447]

There are some asian manufacturers that do not have the quality control
deivces to produce quality standing rigging.
I suggest your rigger prove to you that their source is from a company like
Loos.

Wire Manufacturer | Cable Manufacturer - Loos & Co., Inc.

Domestic Manufacturer of Military Specification Aircraft Cable, Wire Rope, Stainless Steel Wire, Brush Wire and Cable Assemblies.

www.loosco.com

 

[tiempo2010]

Loos is getting out of the wire business as far as 1x19 type 316 I have
been told. The Korean (not Chinese or other Asian countries) wire has been
the best available for a while now.

 

[vega1860]

No matter the high quality of the original Swedish rigging on the Vega, it must eventually come to the end of it's service life. Replace it.

As for the quality of modern 316 SS wire; We replaced the standing rig on Lealea five years before our first voyage from Hawaii to the Pacific Northwest. The wire we used was supposed to be the best quality then available. Halfway there the headstay started unraveling in the middle. On arriving in Port Townsend and inspecting the wire we discovered broken strands at five points along the headstay and six points along the backstay.

After consulting with Lisa Vizeni at Port Townsend Rigging we decided to go ahead and re-rig with new 316 SS wire. We later spoke with Brion Toss (He had been in Hawaii when we arrived at PT). Brion does not much like SS wire and has always recommended galvanized mild steel. Last time I talked with Brion he was recommending Amsteel/Dyneema (HMPE) rope for standing rigging. I think next time I will seriously consider that.

AS for emergency shroud or stay replacement there is no question in my mind - Carry a length of HMPE rope. It is lighter, stronger, far easier to work with than wire, can be cut with a knife and requires no fittings. An emergency stay or shroud can be set up with trucker's hitches.

Just my opinion.

"Fair Winds"

Chuck Rose
SV Lealea, V1860

 

[rogerefairest]

The recomendation is to replace it every 10 years, now would a 40 year old product of high quality is better than a 10 year old of lower quality is debatable I guess.

I have seen 3 de masted boats (none vegas), one was due to the stainless steel in the spreaders weakening the mast, the other two was the bow deck fitting breaking.

None were rigging related, now where they chinese rigging or any other dont know? one thing is for sure Steve Birch double bow roller would have more than likely prevented the two demasts since it is a very well beefed up design.

The only way I can see the rigging "breaking" would be if it was not pressed properly at the "eye bolt" (not sure if this is the right name for them), which would be a rigger error.

Does any one has experience of breaking the actual stainless steel 316, 19 strand rigging? I am quite interested since I changed mine 3 years ago and within 3 months they where showing rust at the eye bolt level, which kind of defeats the word stainless steel.


________________________________
From: Matthew Jenkins <mjenkins@...>
To: albinvega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2013, 6:19
Subject: [AlbinVega] Vega standing rigging




The Adventures of Capt'n K & Lala | From the Rat Race to a life of sustainability, for better or worse… suggests modern standing rigging "is crap" compared to the original Swedish steel used in Albin Vega\'s.
Is there any element of truth in this?
If I bought a 40 year old boat with original standing rigging my inclination would be to change it ASAP. However I guess that I would not necessarily want to do so if I was replacing it with an inferior product.
- Matthew

 

[tim_klynn]

I will probably get replacement for the original rigging from rigging only. If I remember correctly, they quoted me about $900 to provide their recommended ss wire (korean, I think), and hayns hi-mod fittings. I would think that if a person avoided made in china wire, that metallury has progressed somewhat in the past 40 years, so that even a non Swedish mill could produce quality wire.
I keep waiting for someone on this forum to go with a synthetic line rigging system' but so far no guinea pigs have volunteered.
I put a dyneema backstay on our little racing boat and have been very happy with it for two years now. I tend to favor the traditional look of ss rigging on the Vega. -Tim

 

[pjacobs55]

The only two Vega rigging failures I've heard about on this forum are Steve Birch's and Chuck Rose's. I understand Steve had a failure of the forestay attachment at the bow (not a wire failure) and Chuck had a replacement forestay start to unravel.

I suspect the rigging on Sin Tacha is original. I replaced the forestay when the new furler went on, because I'm of the opinion that furling gear is hard on forestays and forestay attachment points.

My "other" Albin also has, I suspect, the original wire. Close inspection after polishing all the swages on a buffing wheel revealed them all to be in good condition, i.e. no cracks.

A trusted rigger showed me a method to further check the integrity of the wire-to-swage joint by gently flexing the wire at the swage and listen for any cracking or snapping sounds. Again, no problems.

I ended up replacing the backstay because the "U" clamps holding a large radar reflector near the top of the mast had crushed the wire strands together making them suspect. That said, it look as though the thing had been up there many years without causing a problem.

I'll launch the Ballad with the existing rigging plus the new backstay. If a furler is added later the forestay will also get done.

After watching the Vega's new lifelines (made from rigging wire) start to show rust within three months I hesitate to start 'fixing' things with products of suspect quality.

My belief is the "replace every ten years" is a C.Y.A. thing applied to all boats, regardless of what climate they're sailed in. I also believe that it's equally important to watch all fittings related to keeping the must up, right down to the cotter pins locking things in place.

I'd be interested to hear of any other Vega rig failures, and what the cause was.

Peter
www.sintacha.com

 

[n6ric]

Tim,
I didn't jump in because I haven't got to the point of doing my rigging yet, but I'm actually planning on doing a mixed environment with SS for the fore and aft stays and synthetic for the sides. Because I want a furler for the jib and an isolated back stay, I'll go with SS and use sta-lock fittings so I can build them myself. I'll most likely use Dynex Dux for my synthetic stays. I chatted with a rigger that does synthetic for race boats and that was his suggestion. I also read an article on a guy in about a 40 footer that crossed the Atlantic with the same setup and it held up great.

The thing you have to remember regardless of what you go with is to regularly check all your fittings. There are tell-tail signs before more than 90% of the failures.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

 

[cmmjenkins]

Thanks to all who responded to my question. Your responses should help me do the right thing if I decide to buy a Vega - or any other sail boat.

Thanks, Matthew

 

[streamfisherman100]

On the American Vega website there is a tab for "Voyages" which brings you to a page that has an article on "Preparing your Vega for Offshore". This was written by the people who circumnavigated on the Vega "Tarka the Otter". Under the section on rigging they mention that the forestay they replaced was the only rigging failure they had when one of the 19 strands broke.

They also note to pay attention to the turnbuckles by looking for hairline cracks and had to replace 4 or 5 over the 4 year circumnavigation.

I'm having my standing rigging replaced now as there is a lot of rust in the lower swage fittings and it makes me nervous. My local rigging shop has a good swage machine and is doing all the rigging (just wire and swages, no turnbuckles) for around $500.00 Sounded like a really fair price to me, probably b/c they're kind of slow in the off season.

Richard, Vega 1863