Varnish on cabinsoles. Can there be such a thing?

Rick D · Jan 20, 2013

Poly

You want something that will apply easily, have a UV inhibitor, be reasonable in cost, stand up to abuse and look good. This is what I used for years before it became 'reformulated' for California... great stuff (if you are not in California):
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products...ne?WT.srch=1&gclid=CMu0tYO--LQCFQhyQgodM28A-w

Delezynski · Jan 20, 2013

Chris,

In 2004 we used a product called Gymseal by McCloskey. It was made for gym floors and worked GREAT!!! It did not yellow or peel when wet for extended periods. It was bright but never slippery. It is no longer available

Unfortunately, some chemicals were spilled on our cabin sole and it did remove a small spot that we now must fix.

And, as a matter of fact, within the last hour I ordered a product to fix our sole. It is also designed to gym floors and is used by the NBA. The down side is, it only comes in gallons! It's called "Bona satin floor finish OM". I found it on line with Home Depot.

I have NO idea how well it will work, but I am going to give it a try. Good luck on your job.

Greg

capejt · Jan 20, 2013

I agree with Rick

I've used Minwax Helmsman Varnish on the cabin sole for a while. I usually end up resurfacing it every three or four years. The problem I've always had is deciding which level of gloss to use. When I used flat it seemed to blah. I tried High Gloss, but as nice and sharp as that looked, the gloss certainly brings out any imperfections in the floor surface. So you would think semi gloss would be the answer, but that ended up looking like worn out gloss.
What do others do regarding gloss level?

onecoolair · Jan 20, 2013

Chris Patterson said:
I've hesitated to ask this here. For one reason, I've dodged this whole boat for over a month now, but now I think I'm sequestered. I'm going to have to refinish the floor, (yes, it is a floor to me), on a very large bridge deck, the after-deck, and the upper bridge as well. If this sounds big, it is. All 82 feet of her. This as usual is a very discerning customer, and I'm a little stuck on what to apply. My favorite varnish is Interlux Schooner, and I've had amazing success with it. About anything Akzo-Nobel is near and dear to my heart.

But I don't know if it would hold up to be walked on regularly.

This not the type of boat, or people for that matter that would be inclined to take off their shoes. My guess would be the occasional 6 inch stiletto heel as well.

So, any suggestions on this? Seriously, it needs to be tough to some degree. Or about as tough as it CAN be I suppose. My guess at this point would be teak, but as I've not "scratched" it yet, it looks it. And I'll probably end up stripping the whole thing down, and starting from there.

So throw some ideas at me people. Or the usual death-threats, or general ridicule as I deserve it for taking this on..

Minwax Liquid Plastic......When the black and Decker Cordless Dust Buster burned out the interior of my boat a few years back. The only thing that survived was the Teak and Holly cabin sole. The black washed right off!

Ralph Johnstone · Jan 20, 2013

Maybe Waaaaaaay Out in Left Field ................

............. but if you're dealing with a bunch of slobs with no respect for the boat and some old babe doing the chicken dance in stilettoes, you may need something a little harder, if you've got the time. And here you're taking a real chance as you don't know what the outcome will be.

A few years ago I got tired of watching the companionway stairs showing their age (10 years) and refinished them with light glass cloth and clear System Three Silver Tip epoxy. The amazing theing here is that the glass cloth COMPLETELY disappears in the epoxy resin as they're both the same refractive index. Did them the same as a regular glass over plywood procedure, added a few coats of epoxy to produce a perfect finish and then finished off with three coats of varnish for UV protection. Crystal clear.

Still looks like wet varnish after several years of little kids burning up and down the stairs with sandy, gritty, little feet.

Big gamble (and big $$$) to do it for a customer but it certainly worked for me.

TomY · Jan 21, 2013

Re: Maybe Waaaaaaay Out in Left Field ................

I use spar varnish on our teak and holly sole. It gets a lot of traffic.

The gloss turns to semi gloss pretty quickly but the coating is still holding up well and still protecting the wood after 10 years. No stilettos but miles of rubber sole traffic.

Spar varnish isn't as hard as some other coatings but it's easy to apply and re coat anytime.

Brian S · Jan 21, 2013

Well, what you are describing is a need for a very hard and durable finish, which also needs UV protection because I believe these decks are exterior. For that reason, I would not use the basketball court varnish, because that's not an exterior finish. If it ain't formulated for UV exposure, it will yellow quickly...

I think the hardest, most durable finish you're going to get is a 2 part polyurethane such as Interlux Perfection, or similar from other manufacturers. However, because it is a 2 part coating, and it is very hard, it's not recommended for old wood or wood that sees a lot of movement, because it could then crack.

If you are going to try it, use a foam brush, and lay it on with one brush stroke, slowly (1 inch per second) to eliminate bubbles. Feather into the wet edge, don't be tempted to stroke it, it will lay down.

One other option that you could try is Coelan from Premapro. Coelan is also a 2 part product, but it is supposed to have 300% elongation characteristics, thus allowing it the flexibility to deal with the changing moisture content and associated movement in wood. Coelan would also want to be flowed on with minimum of re-stroking it.

Although I have not used either product, I know someone currently doing a boat with Perfection, and he is getting a perfect, obsessive, glass-like finish, but he is taking incredible measures to eliminate dust. And I know other people who have used color pigmented Coelan as a coating for ballistic nylon skinned kayaks. Nylon stretches a lot when wet, and the Coelan seems to accommodate this well, and has proven to be one of the longest lasting coatings for a nylon skinned kayak.

Brian

sandpiper10471 · Jan 21, 2013

Not sure with your description if you are talking interior or exterior. I have had excellent luck on the cabin sole by coating all surfaces (including the back and edges) in three coats of epoxy then using a good spar varnish such as Epiphanes over the top. Epoxy keeps the wood from being dented by stilettos and the varnish maintains a nice finish.

Herrick18911 · Jan 21, 2013

We had used Ultimate Sole on out cabin sole. Excellent stuff! Not slippery when wet, holds up good, etc. same formulation as Gym Seal for gymnasium floors. Unfortunately, both formulations are no longer available due to environmental regs but if that previous poster found something else that is made for gym floors, I would seriously look into that! Gym floors and boat soles have needs in common; can't be slippery when wet and need high level of protection. Worth investigation!

Tod

Calif. Ted · Jan 21, 2013

For the last ten years or so after varnishing I've been applying a coat of Johnson's hard finishing wax, it really seems to help maintain the varnish and protect from water damage. Waterspots wipe off easily with a damp towel. Before you light the bonfires it really doesn't seem to make things any more slippery.
Over the weekend I sailed on a boat with black seamed teak ply on the cockpit sole that appeared unfinished with good texture. At 30 degrees of heel I was surprised to learn I could not stand on the high side. My shoes slid downhill like iceskates, bone dry it seemed slicker than wet FG non-skid decks.

RichH · Jan 21, 2013

Ultimate Sole is sadly now out of business. It was probably a mix of 'hard' urethane varnish + latex rubber.

What you dont want is soft 'spar varnish' on a sole, the flexibility of spar varnish is due to its 'softness'.
Flooring (and bar top) varnish varieties are always 'hard' varnish but increasingly hard to obtain because of all the enforced trend to 'water based'. Even 'gym floor' and 'bowling alley' real varnishes are becoming VERY hard to obtain - because of VOC's and 'emissions'.

Old Skool Neil · Jan 21, 2013

WOW!
It's amazing to me that not a single response said leave the teak raw. Except perhaps for the (assumed) rubberized finish mentioned earlier and no longer available, any finish on teak will reduce its excellent natural non-skid properties and possibly become downright dangerous when wet, even a little bit. Why do you think in the NBA they towel up the floor every time someone falls? Why do you think teak decks are never finished? For safety reasons please consider leaving it unfinished.

I did this on a Westsail I built and the cabin sole was easily cleaned up with a Scotch-Brite pad.

To be brutally blunt, you need to decide if this is to be a functioning boat or more like a piano.

Delezynski · Jan 21, 2013

Gymseal worked GREAT for us....

Old Skool,

Just a quick reply about the Gymseal i used back in 01 ~ 03.

Before I applied it to our cabin sole, I coated about half a small strip of teak I had. I let it set up for about a week on our aft deck. I then dropped it in a glass of salt water (from next to the boat) for 2 days. At no time during the dip in the water, or after that did it turn milky or get soft in any way (I was AMAZED at that!). I then left it on the aft deck to dry and sit out for about a month. It had NO yellowing at all. I was then convinced to try it on our cabin sole. This testing all took place in the San Francisco Bay area, not the tropics.

In all the time since we applied it, it was NEVER slippery in any way no matter how wet it, or our feet were. We are only replacing it because of a chemical goof I made during a passage.

Having said all of the, none of it applies to the new product I am going to try as soon as I get it. I am VERY unhappy I can't get Gymseal any more!

Greg

It's dirty photo, but shows it a bit;

Old Skool Neil · Jan 21, 2013

I'm glad the finish worked for you. Here's an opinion from someone else on the subject:

Lin and Larry Pardey on teak cabin soles in their book, The Capable Cruiser, p. 179:

There are several reasons why scrubbed wood makes sense. The most important is safety. Bare wood makes an excellent, permanent, easy-to-clean, nonskid surface for cabin soles, companionway ladder treads, cockpit gratings, and toerails. It is the all-time favorite for safe decks, and many state-of-the-art racing yachts have found that a thin teak overlay pays for its weight, since a sure-footed foredeck crew can change sails more quickly and jump ahead of the competition.

Delezynski · Jan 21, 2013

We know Lin & Larry and have had some long talks.

What is said may be so, but we also live aboard and cruise, not race. Our boat is our home. As is so true about boats, everything is a compromise. I MIGHT be able to live with bare wood, but you know the saying, "a happy wife, a happy life". I keep her happy and sure do like the warmth of the looks.

I just hope the new stuff works as well as the old. If it does, I have a lifetime supply! Our cabin sole is very small, about a pint worth, And I had to purchase a gallon! We will not know for sure for at least a year.

Greg

Chuckbear · Jan 21, 2013

Fabulon

We have used Fabulon Original finish in both of our boats and for about 7 years. The coating is very durable, super scratch resistant, not slippery when wet and easy to apply, you can lay one coat over another without sanding. Did I mention it looks great too? We also use it on the shower interior, table tops, etc. It has never yellowed or showed any signs of discoloration or aging. Just our experience. Chuck

Old Skool Neil · Jan 21, 2013

For some (around here apparently most) appearance is a priority; for others - function.

Delezynski · Jan 21, 2013

I think it MUST be a combination of both! Everything in moderation. And like everywhere they is very seldom one "right" way. ;-)

Greg

Varnish on cabinsoles. Can there be such a thing?

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