removehtml]Has anyone used T-track on the bottom of their boom to mount their vang attachment point. My boom now has the strap that goes up both sides of the boom and I would like to replace it when I replace the boom next year. We sail a Catalina 22, so it is a smaller boat. I have not read of anyone doing this, but I fine it to be an interesting idea. Any thoughts would be welcome. DaleError: Error: expected [/URL], but found [/removehtml] instead[/removehtml]
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It's a small diameter boom
I recommend a BoomKicker in combination with a standard block and pulley system. The Catalina 22 is a small and easily worked main. Are you looking for more mechanical advantage, more micro adjustability? I'm happy discuss any possibility's. http://shop.catalinaowners.com/c22/detail-modspec.htm?fno=20&gid=65 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail-bk.htm?fno=400 Dave Groshong Customer Service SailboatOwners.com Toll Free 877-932-7245 ext.116, Mon-Fri, 9-5 Pacific
I recommend a BoomKicker in combination with a standard block and pulley system. The Catalina 22 is a small and easily worked main. Are you looking for more mechanical advantage, more micro adjustability? I'm happy discuss any possibility's. http://shop.catalinaowners.com/c22/detail-modspec.htm?fno=20&gid=65 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail-bk.htm?fno=400 Dave Groshong Customer Service SailboatOwners.com Toll Free 877-932-7245 ext.116, Mon-Fri, 9-5 Pacific
Well, I don't have anything to sell....
so I'll try to answer your question. I can't see any advantage to installing T track as a vang attachment device. A boom bail or simple eyestrap is the preferred method. Here's a picture of a boom bail. A through bolt attaches both legs to the boom. http://www.defender.com/productsearchresult.jsp For an example of eyestraps... type in "eyestraps" in the search feature of the above Defender.com page. If you're seriously considering upgrading performance.... consider a rigid vang.. the most popular among catalina owners is the Garhauer model. http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=40
so I'll try to answer your question. I can't see any advantage to installing T track as a vang attachment device. A boom bail or simple eyestrap is the preferred method. Here's a picture of a boom bail. A through bolt attaches both legs to the boom. http://www.defender.com/productsearchresult.jsp For an example of eyestraps... type in "eyestraps" in the search feature of the above Defender.com page. If you're seriously considering upgrading performance.... consider a rigid vang.. the most popular among catalina owners is the Garhauer model. http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=40
What I am trying to do
I really do not need anymore mechanical advantage. I have a five to one set up now. I have lines that run down the length of the boom and I would like not to have to go over the strap and screws that hold the tange on. I thought that if I had t-track on the bottom, it could get rid of that problem. I have a new two foot piece of t-track and I can purchase the bail that goes on it. I can then vary the attachment point if I want, as well as having no screw for my other lines to cross. That really is the whole story. Dale
I really do not need anymore mechanical advantage. I have a five to one set up now. I have lines that run down the length of the boom and I would like not to have to go over the strap and screws that hold the tange on. I thought that if I had t-track on the bottom, it could get rid of that problem. I have a new two foot piece of t-track and I can purchase the bail that goes on it. I can then vary the attachment point if I want, as well as having no screw for my other lines to cross. That really is the whole story. Dale
Low Beam
I know a few folks who have done this, they using either low/high beam track some have placed brass bar stock drilled/tapped inside so they can use machine screws. The main reason for doing it was to stiffen the boom, A couple use loose footed mains and bent the boom in heavy air. I have thought of doing it myself, I too use a loose footed main. Its very easy to bend the main on a C22. If you would like me to put you in contact with one of them just yell. Be happy to
I know a few folks who have done this, they using either low/high beam track some have placed brass bar stock drilled/tapped inside so they can use machine screws. The main reason for doing it was to stiffen the boom, A couple use loose footed mains and bent the boom in heavy air. I have thought of doing it myself, I too use a loose footed main. Its very easy to bend the main on a C22. If you would like me to put you in contact with one of them just yell. Be happy to
Not sure
Ken, I am not sure that I understand your answer. You said that it is easy to bend the main on a C-22. Did you mean the main mast or the boom? I do not use loose footed main. May be I missed your point. Thanks Dale
Ken, I am not sure that I understand your answer. You said that it is easy to bend the main on a C-22. Did you mean the main mast or the boom? I do not use loose footed main. May be I missed your point. Thanks Dale
Paphman, Are the screws the problem?
If screws penetrating the inside of the boom are the problem then I would use rivets to mount a strap. That is the way I mounted the vang strap on my C22 and it has held up nicely. I sail the boat very hard and have found self tapping or standard SS metal screws not up to the task. They eventually pull out. I would not trust any item that attached only to the bottom of the boom to hold up to the forces that are incountered in a good blow. A boom bail works because it is not just a straight pull against the force applied. It has additional side loading attachment points that really increase its strength. Just another idea to look at. Ray
If screws penetrating the inside of the boom are the problem then I would use rivets to mount a strap. That is the way I mounted the vang strap on my C22 and it has held up nicely. I sail the boat very hard and have found self tapping or standard SS metal screws not up to the task. They eventually pull out. I would not trust any item that attached only to the bottom of the boom to hold up to the forces that are incountered in a good blow. A boom bail works because it is not just a straight pull against the force applied. It has additional side loading attachment points that really increase its strength. Just another idea to look at. Ray
Screw heads
It is the screw heads that the line cross. It is not really a problem, but I thought that if I could do away with them so much the better. I will say that I have not seen it done before, but may be no one has thought of doing it. If I have to use the vang attachment that I now have it is no big deal,but I am only trying to think of some other way to do this. May be the winter is getting alittle old at this point. Thanks for understanding Dale
It is the screw heads that the line cross. It is not really a problem, but I thought that if I could do away with them so much the better. I will say that I have not seen it done before, but may be no one has thought of doing it. If I have to use the vang attachment that I now have it is no big deal,but I am only trying to think of some other way to do this. May be the winter is getting alittle old at this point. Thanks for understanding Dale
Paphman, anywhere you can use a different...
type of fastener other than a sheet metal type screw you win. With sheet metal such as the side of your boom there is little metal for the screw to lock onto. You then have the load pulling against this one metal twist through that thin metal. Soon the thread flattens out, the assembly now has play and a strong load will then strip the fastener out. This load force is accelerated if the pull is directly in line with the path of the screw. Thus we use a bridle or strap type of device that applies the load from a right angle the the pulling force. So you see, West Marine wins again. They sell the boom vang strap you need to rivet to your boom, although Catalina Direct is cheaper. Ray
type of fastener other than a sheet metal type screw you win. With sheet metal such as the side of your boom there is little metal for the screw to lock onto. You then have the load pulling against this one metal twist through that thin metal. Soon the thread flattens out, the assembly now has play and a strong load will then strip the fastener out. This load force is accelerated if the pull is directly in line with the path of the screw. Thus we use a bridle or strap type of device that applies the load from a right angle the the pulling force. So you see, West Marine wins again. They sell the boom vang strap you need to rivet to your boom, although Catalina Direct is cheaper. Ray
Ray
Ray, Do you think that the 1/4" screws that hold on the t-track would pull out? I drill and tap all of the screws in the boom. I do not use sheet metal screws for the very reasons that you mention. The t-track is 2' long, so it has about 5 screws in it. The angle of pull would not be a right angle, but about 45 deg. I know that I am beating this one into the ground, but it still sould like a good idea. Looking forward Ray to your reply Thanks again Dale
Ray, Do you think that the 1/4" screws that hold on the t-track would pull out? I drill and tap all of the screws in the boom. I do not use sheet metal screws for the very reasons that you mention. The t-track is 2' long, so it has about 5 screws in it. The angle of pull would not be a right angle, but about 45 deg. I know that I am beating this one into the ground, but it still sould like a good idea. Looking forward Ray to your reply Thanks again Dale
Mounting Screws
On any items I attached to the boom or mast I used an item called a RivNut. Picture a top hat with threads inside it. You drill a hole and insert the RivNut and then use a tool that looks like a rivet tool to attach it. They are used in the aircraft industry and on any thin surface. The problem with tapping a hole on your mast or boom is that the alum is very thin - your lucky if you get 3 threads - and whatever you are attaching could pull out. If a RivNut pulled out it would take a chunk of the boom or mast with it.
On any items I attached to the boom or mast I used an item called a RivNut. Picture a top hat with threads inside it. You drill a hole and insert the RivNut and then use a tool that looks like a rivet tool to attach it. They are used in the aircraft industry and on any thin surface. The problem with tapping a hole on your mast or boom is that the alum is very thin - your lucky if you get 3 threads - and whatever you are attaching could pull out. If a RivNut pulled out it would take a chunk of the boom or mast with it.
Where do you find them
Don Where do you get these? It sounds like a heli-coil. I use to use them when I was in the ski business. They sould like a good idea. Dale
Don Where do you get these? It sounds like a heli-coil. I use to use them when I was in the ski business. They sould like a good idea. Dale
Harbor Freight Tools
You can get them at Harbor Freight Tools, they come as a set with a selection of different size thredded inserts and the installation tool. They work really well. Barry Broyles C22 1909 "Brighteyes"
You can get them at Harbor Freight Tools, they come as a set with a selection of different size thredded inserts and the installation tool. They work really well. Barry Broyles C22 1909 "Brighteyes"
Hold Up To Weather
The main thing is they hold the best of any attachment system. It is a good idea to coat the connecting surface with some antiseeze or similar substance to prevent electrialis (or whatever you call it) due to disimiliar metals. I can tell you these RivNuts will outlast anything you can throw at them and they are much better than trying to tap the hole. There are other uses you can put them too - I use them to attach mirrors on my motor home. I first came upon them at a school bus yard in Orange County, Ca when I saw mechanics attaching lights ect on a school bus and I though that would be a good application for my boat.
The main thing is they hold the best of any attachment system. It is a good idea to coat the connecting surface with some antiseeze or similar substance to prevent electrialis (or whatever you call it) due to disimiliar metals. I can tell you these RivNuts will outlast anything you can throw at them and they are much better than trying to tap the hole. There are other uses you can put them too - I use them to attach mirrors on my motor home. I first came upon them at a school bus yard in Orange County, Ca when I saw mechanics attaching lights ect on a school bus and I though that would be a good application for my boat.
Paphman, We're still shooting the dead horse.
The reason everyone uses a bail is to direct the forces away from a straight pull. Your idea will work but is expensive and heavy. The other type of rivet is great but not something you will use in very many other applications. While my son uses them on planes we use way more standard rivets on our racing applications in the automotive field. Rivets come in alum. steel and combos of these materials. We're speaking a C22 so anything will probably work but I feel wrong about what and where you are attaching this item. I about half way pulled out a bail I was using for a preventer and it was attached right by the dealer before I bought this boat so all I'm saying is be safe first and experement on other items that have less consequence if it fails. Ray
The reason everyone uses a bail is to direct the forces away from a straight pull. Your idea will work but is expensive and heavy. The other type of rivet is great but not something you will use in very many other applications. While my son uses them on planes we use way more standard rivets on our racing applications in the automotive field. Rivets come in alum. steel and combos of these materials. We're speaking a C22 so anything will probably work but I feel wrong about what and where you are attaching this item. I about half way pulled out a bail I was using for a preventer and it was attached right by the dealer before I bought this boat so all I'm saying is be safe first and experement on other items that have less consequence if it fails. Ray
Thanks Ray
Thanks Ray. The more I think about this idea, the more I feel it will go onto the trash heep of other bad ideas that I have had. Maybe this is an answer to a non question. Thanks to everyone that has given their advice. Dale
Thanks Ray. The more I think about this idea, the more I feel it will go onto the trash heep of other bad ideas that I have had. Maybe this is an answer to a non question. Thanks to everyone that has given their advice. Dale
Paphman, Catch me of line by e-mail. I've got
an idea you might have fun developing. It sounds like your handy at fabricating and this would be fun on a C22. My name is Ray Bowles and I should be in the directory. Ray
an idea you might have fun developing. It sounds like your handy at fabricating and this would be fun on a C22. My name is Ray Bowles and I should be in the directory. Ray
For Ray
Ray, I am not able to fine your e-mail address. Send me and e-mail on my address. Thanks Ray Dale
Ray, I am not able to fine your e-mail address. Send me and e-mail on my address. Thanks Ray Dale
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