I believe that even with modern materials boats still deteriorate faster in salt water that in fresh. But how do you put a value on that deterioration? Does anyone have any experience of both environments?
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Sort of.
My 1979 H37C has always been in fresh water. And it has none of the problems that we read about here on HOW. The rudder and hull are solid for example. Last Spring I scraped and sanded and barrier coated the bottom. The only blisters were the cosmetic type, the size of a pencil eraser. The rigging looks good, no signs of any kind of corrosion. The base of the mast which sits in the bilge is solid. The wiring, for example behind the AC/DC panel, looks like new. The Yanmar still has original gray paint look, no rust. The original plumbing like pumps, tanks, and hot water tank are still in use and look good. Same for fuel tank. Can the same be said of a salt water boat? Not sure. I have been on two H37C's recently and they looked great. But I know the owners and they are fastidious. I know of two other H37Cs down on the NC coast, both 1979s, that look very rough. One of the regular contributors here, Mike Alge, brought a saltwater H37C to Lake Erie. While sailing he lost rudder control due to the plate on the bottom of the Edson(under the cockpit sole) separating. If you look at mine it still has that original enameled look, no corrosion whatsovever. Just one example but in my limited experience there is quite a difference.
My 1979 H37C has always been in fresh water. And it has none of the problems that we read about here on HOW. The rudder and hull are solid for example. Last Spring I scraped and sanded and barrier coated the bottom. The only blisters were the cosmetic type, the size of a pencil eraser. The rigging looks good, no signs of any kind of corrosion. The base of the mast which sits in the bilge is solid. The wiring, for example behind the AC/DC panel, looks like new. The Yanmar still has original gray paint look, no rust. The original plumbing like pumps, tanks, and hot water tank are still in use and look good. Same for fuel tank. Can the same be said of a salt water boat? Not sure. I have been on two H37C's recently and they looked great. But I know the owners and they are fastidious. I know of two other H37Cs down on the NC coast, both 1979s, that look very rough. One of the regular contributors here, Mike Alge, brought a saltwater H37C to Lake Erie. While sailing he lost rudder control due to the plate on the bottom of the Edson(under the cockpit sole) separating. If you look at mine it still has that original enameled look, no corrosion whatsovever. Just one example but in my limited experience there is quite a difference.
Some parts do. Some don't.
Everything made of metal is worse off in salt water. Everything made of wood is worse off in fresh water. Fresh water causes wood to rot. Salt water is a preservative. Wood boats rot from the inside out, more from the rain water that gets in that from the sea water that does. Salt water is harsher on rope and cloth. I've heard some people say, and some explanation, that fresh water causes more osmotic damage to fiberglass hulls than does salt water. On the other hand, salt water has more marine growth. The general perception is that salt water is harsher on fiberglass boats, and so there is a premium for a boat that has always been in fresh water.
Everything made of metal is worse off in salt water. Everything made of wood is worse off in fresh water. Fresh water causes wood to rot. Salt water is a preservative. Wood boats rot from the inside out, more from the rain water that gets in that from the sea water that does. Salt water is harsher on rope and cloth. I've heard some people say, and some explanation, that fresh water causes more osmotic damage to fiberglass hulls than does salt water. On the other hand, salt water has more marine growth. The general perception is that salt water is harsher on fiberglass boats, and so there is a premium for a boat that has always been in fresh water.
Good Question !
Salt water will damage your heat exchanger, wiring, plumbing and metal hardware over time. Excessive sun will do damage to gelcoat, canvas and windows. More southern boats are painted. Up north only damaged vessels get painted. Warmer water will increased the quanity and size of blisters if your vessel is prone to that problem. This led me to believe the boats I looked at in Florida for 25% less money were no bargain. Fresh water boats from the Great Lakes or New England appeared to be in better condition but are not without their own set of problems. Deep freezing winter temperatures cause trapped water to freeze. Rudder break open and deck leaks start that lead to core delamination. Hunter rudders fall apart in any enviroment. (trust me, I'm on my third, none were grounded, just poor design and workmanship) You asked about putting a value on deterioration. A marine surveyor may help. Second to vessel condition is the local market (location) and supply/demand situation. I'd estimate a 10-15% higher value for a fresh water boat. (they usually have lower engine hours also) Add another 10% if the Gelcoat is severely damaged by UV. Barry
Salt water will damage your heat exchanger, wiring, plumbing and metal hardware over time. Excessive sun will do damage to gelcoat, canvas and windows. More southern boats are painted. Up north only damaged vessels get painted. Warmer water will increased the quanity and size of blisters if your vessel is prone to that problem. This led me to believe the boats I looked at in Florida for 25% less money were no bargain. Fresh water boats from the Great Lakes or New England appeared to be in better condition but are not without their own set of problems. Deep freezing winter temperatures cause trapped water to freeze. Rudder break open and deck leaks start that lead to core delamination. Hunter rudders fall apart in any enviroment. (trust me, I'm on my third, none were grounded, just poor design and workmanship) You asked about putting a value on deterioration. A marine surveyor may help. Second to vessel condition is the local market (location) and supply/demand situation. I'd estimate a 10-15% higher value for a fresh water boat. (they usually have lower engine hours also) Add another 10% if the Gelcoat is severely damaged by UV. Barry
Survey...
Salt air definitely takes a higher toll on boats than a freshwater environment, not only on the gelcoat, but on all the systems...and *typically* fresh water boats command 10-15% higher prices than comparable condition salt water boats. But a poorly maintained boat in a fresh water environment isn't gonna hold up any better, and could be in worse condition than the average salt water boat. The only way to determine the true local market value of any individual hull is a complete pre-purchase survey.
Salt air definitely takes a higher toll on boats than a freshwater environment, not only on the gelcoat, but on all the systems...and *typically* fresh water boats command 10-15% higher prices than comparable condition salt water boats. But a poorly maintained boat in a fresh water environment isn't gonna hold up any better, and could be in worse condition than the average salt water boat. The only way to determine the true local market value of any individual hull is a complete pre-purchase survey.
More Blisters in Fresh Water
About a year ago I was considering a mid-west boat and talked to a number of surveyors before deciding on one. In the process I learned from the surveyors that fresh water boats tend to have more blisters than salt water boats. As for wiring, cloth, and wood deterioration, the wiring should be tin plated and marine grade - not automotive type, including connectors and heat shrink tubing. Automotive wiring degrades quickly in a salt air environment. Cloth, such as Sunbrella, will abrade faster due to the salt particles but will outlast the stiching. Wood on newer low-cost fiberglass boats is limited to interior, cosmetic exterior, and coachroof lamination use. What I'd be concerned about is the wood used in the coachroof where water has infiltrated from screw holes and the like on both fresh and salt water boats. Low cost production manufacturers just "throw" the stuff on (life line stantions, hatches, etc.) with little regard to prevention of water intrusion. Gobs of sealant is the solution of choice. After all, it takes several years for problems to occur and that's if anybody can even find them. One of the main problem areas is the corrosion between stainless steel fasteners and aluminum parts. When the boat is new the owner should remove all stainless fasteners bedded in aluminum and coat them with products such as Never-Seze (West Marine) or Lanocote to help prevent corrosion. Bolts in the aluminum quadrant, screws in the helm, sheet metal screws in the mast, and if you're industrious, even the toe rail bolts.
About a year ago I was considering a mid-west boat and talked to a number of surveyors before deciding on one. In the process I learned from the surveyors that fresh water boats tend to have more blisters than salt water boats. As for wiring, cloth, and wood deterioration, the wiring should be tin plated and marine grade - not automotive type, including connectors and heat shrink tubing. Automotive wiring degrades quickly in a salt air environment. Cloth, such as Sunbrella, will abrade faster due to the salt particles but will outlast the stiching. Wood on newer low-cost fiberglass boats is limited to interior, cosmetic exterior, and coachroof lamination use. What I'd be concerned about is the wood used in the coachroof where water has infiltrated from screw holes and the like on both fresh and salt water boats. Low cost production manufacturers just "throw" the stuff on (life line stantions, hatches, etc.) with little regard to prevention of water intrusion. Gobs of sealant is the solution of choice. After all, it takes several years for problems to occur and that's if anybody can even find them. One of the main problem areas is the corrosion between stainless steel fasteners and aluminum parts. When the boat is new the owner should remove all stainless fasteners bedded in aluminum and coat them with products such as Never-Seze (West Marine) or Lanocote to help prevent corrosion. Bolts in the aluminum quadrant, screws in the helm, sheet metal screws in the mast, and if you're industrious, even the toe rail bolts.
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