I am intrigued with the vacu-flush toilets. Why do some boats use it instead of either a hand/electric pump head? I understand a vacu-flush unit uses fresh water instead of sea water. Just how much water does it use per flush? Also, how do you clean or repair one of these units? Thanks. John
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Ive worked on one vacuflush
I did some warranty work on a vacuflush. It reminds me of a unit on a camper. Big ball that opens. Not so sure how well it would operate in a sailboat. Houseboat yes. They pull a vacuum on your hoses and goes into a small holding tank and when it gets so full it goes to your regular holding tank. The plastic flush valve seems awfull flimsy and the bowl where everything mounts appears to be prone to leaking. When used on a sailboat I would think all of the motion when using the head under sail could create some problems. Tim Welsh Hunter 34 S/V Cabo Wabo
I did some warranty work on a vacuflush. It reminds me of a unit on a camper. Big ball that opens. Not so sure how well it would operate in a sailboat. Houseboat yes. They pull a vacuum on your hoses and goes into a small holding tank and when it gets so full it goes to your regular holding tank. The plastic flush valve seems awfull flimsy and the bowl where everything mounts appears to be prone to leaking. When used on a sailboat I would think all of the motion when using the head under sail could create some problems. Tim Welsh Hunter 34 S/V Cabo Wabo
Consistent flushes
Vacuflush toilet systems give you a consistent flush, use an equal amount of water each time. Guests don't need to be trained on how to flush either, a real bonus. Some are plumbed with fresh water which eliminates the odor manual toilets can experience from using river or salt water to flush. They also seem to draw odors down with the water which in close quarters is a good thing
You'll find they're quite common on power boats and are now finding their way into sailboats too. They do require room for the vacuum assembly which makes fitting them to smaller boats a challenge. As far as repairs are concerned they're like any other device on a boat, sooner or later you need to fix them. When you do there are service kits available along with all the other necessary parts.
Vacuflush toilet systems give you a consistent flush, use an equal amount of water each time. Guests don't need to be trained on how to flush either, a real bonus. Some are plumbed with fresh water which eliminates the odor manual toilets can experience from using river or salt water to flush. They also seem to draw odors down with the water which in close quarters is a good thing
You'll find they're quite common on power boats and are now finding their way into sailboats too. They do require room for the vacuum assembly which makes fitting them to smaller boats a challenge. As far as repairs are concerned they're like any other device on a boat, sooner or later you need to fix them. When you do there are service kits available along with all the other necessary parts.
I Agree
Great system uses very little water and air to push to your holding tank,but very involved system and seems like it could be trouble down the road. Look at sealand marine toilets for more info. I thought about putting it in my sailboat Nick .
Great system uses very little water and air to push to your holding tank,but very involved system and seems like it could be trouble down the road. Look at sealand marine toilets for more info. I thought about putting it in my sailboat Nick .
Good system, but over priced
When it was first introduced in the 1970s, it was the only toilet that used pressurized fresh water and less than 1-3 gal/flush. But that changed in the 90s...now almost every toilet mfr offers at least one model--some offer several--that uses fresh water and needs .5 gal or less...some for as little as 1/3 the price of a VacuFlush. So the VacuFlush is a fine system, but overpriced and uses the same technology for 30 years. There are much better options that cost a lot less, to buy AND repair. Fwiw, I had VacuFlush on my last two boats (it was the only fresh water flush "game in town" when I installed 'em) and was a dealer for nearly 10 years. If I were looking at a used boat that already had it installed, I'd be glad to have it...but I'd never spend my own money to put one on a boat again.
When it was first introduced in the 1970s, it was the only toilet that used pressurized fresh water and less than 1-3 gal/flush. But that changed in the 90s...now almost every toilet mfr offers at least one model--some offer several--that uses fresh water and needs .5 gal or less...some for as little as 1/3 the price of a VacuFlush. So the VacuFlush is a fine system, but overpriced and uses the same technology for 30 years. There are much better options that cost a lot less, to buy AND repair. Fwiw, I had VacuFlush on my last two boats (it was the only fresh water flush "game in town" when I installed 'em) and was a dealer for nearly 10 years. If I were looking at a used boat that already had it installed, I'd be glad to have it...but I'd never spend my own money to put one on a boat again.
Complicated installation?
I just purchased a brand new in box VacuFlush on Craigslist for $129. After reading the installation manual, I think it might be wise to have it professionally installed. It appears that proper installation is a bit tricky. I really think that it's a real nice upgrade from the traditional marine plastic hand pump heads.
I just purchased a brand new in box VacuFlush on Craigslist for $129. After reading the installation manual, I think it might be wise to have it professionally installed. It appears that proper installation is a bit tricky. I really think that it's a real nice upgrade from the traditional marine plastic hand pump heads.
Is there a sucking sound after a flush?
I listened to a vacu-flush during and after the flush. Right after the flush, there is a long chuga-chuga-chuga sound. I assume that is the sound of the system creating a vacuum to get ready for the next flush? Is that a normal sound?
I listened to a vacu-flush during and after the flush. Right after the flush, there is a long chuga-chuga-chuga sound. I assume that is the sound of the system creating a vacuum to get ready for the next flush? Is that a normal sound?
Yes...that's the normal sound the pump makes
And it can be a real thrill in the middle of the night if it's under your berth as mine was. It should only run for a minute or less after each flush, to establish suction (vacuum)for the next flush. The pump actually does two things at once. The suction only pulls bowl contents as far the pump...the pump then pushes it the rest of the way to the holding tank (not to be confused with the vacuum tank) while it also pulls air out of the system between the bowl and the pump. A sensor in the vacuum switch--located at the end of the vacuum tank--turns the pump off when the right amount of vacuum has been achieved. SeaLand's claim that the V/Flush can use "as little as" 1 pint of flush water is VERY carefully worded. If only urine is flushed...no water added to the bowl first, no TP either...then yes, you CAN get away with that little, at least for a few flushes. But if you do much of that, unless you want odor, at least once a day you need to run at least half a bowl of clean water through it to rinse out the system. It's also advisable to add at least half a bowl of water (lifting the pedal adds water to the bowl without flushing the toilet) ahead of solids or any TP (iow, every time a female uses the toilet)...that's a quart or more. Stepping on the pedal not only opens the dome in the bottom of the bowl, it also "turns on" the flush water...so it's ESSENTIAL to leave the pedal down for at least 7-10 seconds after the bowl is empty to rinse out the pump and duckbills--to prevent a buildup in the pump or bits of waste or TP from becoming stuck in a duckbill, creating one of those pesky air leaks that causes the pump to cycle for no reason...at least another quart. And if you don't want permeated hoses, it's a very good idea--last thing before the boat will sit (or at least once a week if you're living aboard)--to fill the bowl to the rim with clean water and flush it through to thoroughly rinse out the vacuum tank, hoses and pump...'cuz suction splatters waste all over 'em and the flush water flow isn't sufficient to completely fill the hoses. So, averaged out over a week, the VacuFlush actually NEEDS about the same amount of flush water that most other toilets made today need: about 2 quarts/flush. If you already have a VacuFlush and you're using much less than that, you're asking for problems, 'cuz 90% of problems with it are the result of using too little water.
And it can be a real thrill in the middle of the night if it's under your berth as mine was. It should only run for a minute or less after each flush, to establish suction (vacuum)for the next flush. The pump actually does two things at once. The suction only pulls bowl contents as far the pump...the pump then pushes it the rest of the way to the holding tank (not to be confused with the vacuum tank) while it also pulls air out of the system between the bowl and the pump. A sensor in the vacuum switch--located at the end of the vacuum tank--turns the pump off when the right amount of vacuum has been achieved. SeaLand's claim that the V/Flush can use "as little as" 1 pint of flush water is VERY carefully worded. If only urine is flushed...no water added to the bowl first, no TP either...then yes, you CAN get away with that little, at least for a few flushes. But if you do much of that, unless you want odor, at least once a day you need to run at least half a bowl of clean water through it to rinse out the system. It's also advisable to add at least half a bowl of water (lifting the pedal adds water to the bowl without flushing the toilet) ahead of solids or any TP (iow, every time a female uses the toilet)...that's a quart or more. Stepping on the pedal not only opens the dome in the bottom of the bowl, it also "turns on" the flush water...so it's ESSENTIAL to leave the pedal down for at least 7-10 seconds after the bowl is empty to rinse out the pump and duckbills--to prevent a buildup in the pump or bits of waste or TP from becoming stuck in a duckbill, creating one of those pesky air leaks that causes the pump to cycle for no reason...at least another quart. And if you don't want permeated hoses, it's a very good idea--last thing before the boat will sit (or at least once a week if you're living aboard)--to fill the bowl to the rim with clean water and flush it through to thoroughly rinse out the vacuum tank, hoses and pump...'cuz suction splatters waste all over 'em and the flush water flow isn't sufficient to completely fill the hoses. So, averaged out over a week, the VacuFlush actually NEEDS about the same amount of flush water that most other toilets made today need: about 2 quarts/flush. If you already have a VacuFlush and you're using much less than that, you're asking for problems, 'cuz 90% of problems with it are the result of using too little water.
The Vacuflush is my wife's favorite upgrade!
I installed a vacuflush system by myself 2 seasons ago on our 356. We have been VERY happy. Some facts (as I see them) 1) The installation isn't difficult (read the manual) but getting the plumbing and wires from A to B can be a challenge. We used hard-pipe (PVC) for all of the vertical runs and a lot of the of the horizontal runs. Soft-pipe (Odersafe2) was used for the couplings and too allow for hull flex. 2) The vacum generator is installed under the bunk and isn't nearly as noisy as I feared. One really has to listen to hear it. Pay the extra money for the quite motor and mount the VG on rubber grommets. 3) The water savings is true. TBPO (Time Between Pump-Outs) has doubled and we routinly flush the system just as Peggy suggested. Solids and TP do require additional water to flush. (maybe 2 pts). With 4 on board, we can go 4-5 days between pumpouts. 4) Fresh water hook-up is the only way to go. 5) The system will hold a vacum for over 8 hours without running. 6) The total system is slightly more expensive then macator pumps heads, but IMHO works better. I don't recall the exact cost, but I think with everything, ( Head, VG, pipe, hoses, clamps, wire, breakers, switches etc) the cost was around $1500. 7) The regional distributor was very helpfull in answering questions on both system design and installation. S/V PADOZARY H356
I installed a vacuflush system by myself 2 seasons ago on our 356. We have been VERY happy. Some facts (as I see them) 1) The installation isn't difficult (read the manual) but getting the plumbing and wires from A to B can be a challenge. We used hard-pipe (PVC) for all of the vertical runs and a lot of the of the horizontal runs. Soft-pipe (Odersafe2) was used for the couplings and too allow for hull flex. 2) The vacum generator is installed under the bunk and isn't nearly as noisy as I feared. One really has to listen to hear it. Pay the extra money for the quite motor and mount the VG on rubber grommets. 3) The water savings is true. TBPO (Time Between Pump-Outs) has doubled and we routinly flush the system just as Peggy suggested. Solids and TP do require additional water to flush. (maybe 2 pts). With 4 on board, we can go 4-5 days between pumpouts. 4) Fresh water hook-up is the only way to go. 5) The system will hold a vacum for over 8 hours without running. 6) The total system is slightly more expensive then macator pumps heads, but IMHO works better. I don't recall the exact cost, but I think with everything, ( Head, VG, pipe, hoses, clamps, wire, breakers, switches etc) the cost was around $1500. 7) The regional distributor was very helpfull in answering questions on both system design and installation. S/V PADOZARY H356
tapping into fresh water
Hey Paul, exactly how did you tap into the fresh water and guard against any contamination issues/backwashing? I'm thinking you used the existing seawater pickup and ran back to the connectors under the galley sick, or did you come off of the head vanity or shower feed...... Tim
Hey Paul, exactly how did you tap into the fresh water and guard against any contamination issues/backwashing? I'm thinking you used the existing seawater pickup and ran back to the connectors under the galley sick, or did you come off of the head vanity or shower feed...... Tim
Tapping into fresh water
Hi Tim, The Vacuflush comes with a built-in anti-siphon valve additionally, fresh water only enters the bowl from the very top. I tee'd off the cold water line uder the head sink. The system uses the boat's fresh water pump. Cross contamination, if not impossible, would be very difficult. This differs from the "pump" style head where the pump is used to both push waste and pull flush water. To answer John's original question on maintenance. Aside from the routine rinsing as suggested by Peggy. Once or twice a season, I will clean the bowl gasget using a rasp like wand provided with the head. The wand is removes any material that may have solidified on the gasget and might reduce vacum. The only scheduled maintenance items are the bowl gasget and 4 joker valves in the VG, 2 on each side of the pump. Dometic recommends yearly replacement, but this is really a factor of use. We have gone 2 seasons without a problem and will replace them this winter. The gasget requires removing the bowl (4 screws) removing the old gasket, inserting the new and re-attaching the bowl. The joker valves replacement is a little tricker (wear rubber gloves)and requires: (1) Flushing the system with a lot of fresh water to remove effluence. (2) Disconnecting the intake and discharge hoses. (3) Removing four screws on the pump chassis and lifting the pump from the VG housing. (4) Removing the old valves and quickly placing them into handy plastic bag. (5) Inserting the new valves then re-assembling the unit. I inspected the unit last year, the whole process took about an 1.5 hours. It helps to install the unit with maintence in mind. E.g easy access. Regards, Paul S/V PADOZARY
Hi Tim, The Vacuflush comes with a built-in anti-siphon valve additionally, fresh water only enters the bowl from the very top. I tee'd off the cold water line uder the head sink. The system uses the boat's fresh water pump. Cross contamination, if not impossible, would be very difficult. This differs from the "pump" style head where the pump is used to both push waste and pull flush water. To answer John's original question on maintenance. Aside from the routine rinsing as suggested by Peggy. Once or twice a season, I will clean the bowl gasget using a rasp like wand provided with the head. The wand is removes any material that may have solidified on the gasget and might reduce vacum. The only scheduled maintenance items are the bowl gasget and 4 joker valves in the VG, 2 on each side of the pump. Dometic recommends yearly replacement, but this is really a factor of use. We have gone 2 seasons without a problem and will replace them this winter. The gasget requires removing the bowl (4 screws) removing the old gasket, inserting the new and re-attaching the bowl. The joker valves replacement is a little tricker (wear rubber gloves)and requires: (1) Flushing the system with a lot of fresh water to remove effluence. (2) Disconnecting the intake and discharge hoses. (3) Removing four screws on the pump chassis and lifting the pump from the VG housing. (4) Removing the old valves and quickly placing them into handy plastic bag. (5) Inserting the new valves then re-assembling the unit. I inspected the unit last year, the whole process took about an 1.5 hours. It helps to install the unit with maintence in mind. E.g easy access. Regards, Paul S/V PADOZARY
Freshwater connection - Others
Perhaps this is a question for Peggy, but I'm not realy to switch from my PHII at thgis time, but would love to tap into teh fresh water system for flushing. contamination is my biggest concern. so what type of anti-siphon or checkvalve would be required. I don't want to install a seperate fresh water tank just for this purpose and I'm tired of the "fill the jug up first, pour into head, do the deed and pump, add more water, pump, etc etc etc....). Tim
Perhaps this is a question for Peggy, but I'm not realy to switch from my PHII at thgis time, but would love to tap into teh fresh water system for flushing. contamination is my biggest concern. so what type of anti-siphon or checkvalve would be required. I don't want to install a seperate fresh water tank just for this purpose and I'm tired of the "fill the jug up first, pour into head, do the deed and pump, add more water, pump, etc etc etc....). Tim
Nope...don't do it.
Toilets designed to use sea water use a pump to pull water into 'em. Toilets designed to use pressurized flush water don't have an intake pump, they use a solenoid valve that acts something like any other faucet in a pressurized water system: the valve opens it to ALLOW water to flow...closes to block the flow of water. There's no way to disable or even remove the intake pump function in a manual toilet...forcing water through it will cause seals, o-rings etc to mis-align. Connecting a manual toilet to the fresh water system ahead of the pump, so that it still has to pull water from the tank solves that problem, but it doesn't solve the biggest one: both the flush water and the waste go through the same pump...and there isn't a check valve or siphon breaker that can prevent e-coli from getting into the freshwater plumbing. But there is a way to provide fresh water to the toilet without risk to the potable water supply: tee your head intake line into your head sink drain line. Keep the sink drain thru-hull closed except when in use. To flush the toilet, put water in the sink. This CAN be a way to flush the toilet all the time...but most commonly it's used to flush all the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit. And there's actually an easy way to install a separate flush water tank: stuff a 5-6 gallon UNvented bladder into any location that's convenient to both the toilet and the head sink drain line. Tee the fill into the sink drain line using a y-valve (even a $3.95 garden hose wye will work for this application)...connect the head line to the bladder. No other plumbing required....no separate fill, no vent needed. To fill the bladder, turn the valves, run water down the sink. Then put the valves back to use the sink normally. If/when fresh water is in short supply, you COULD refill the bladder with a bucket of sea water. As for the VacuFlush...before spending upwards of $1000 for it, I strongly suggest you check out other toilets that use pressurized flush water. You can have everything the V/Flush offers and more--without losing a big chunk of your storage space to components--for as little as $400. Just my $.02 worth.
Toilets designed to use sea water use a pump to pull water into 'em. Toilets designed to use pressurized flush water don't have an intake pump, they use a solenoid valve that acts something like any other faucet in a pressurized water system: the valve opens it to ALLOW water to flow...closes to block the flow of water. There's no way to disable or even remove the intake pump function in a manual toilet...forcing water through it will cause seals, o-rings etc to mis-align. Connecting a manual toilet to the fresh water system ahead of the pump, so that it still has to pull water from the tank solves that problem, but it doesn't solve the biggest one: both the flush water and the waste go through the same pump...and there isn't a check valve or siphon breaker that can prevent e-coli from getting into the freshwater plumbing. But there is a way to provide fresh water to the toilet without risk to the potable water supply: tee your head intake line into your head sink drain line. Keep the sink drain thru-hull closed except when in use. To flush the toilet, put water in the sink. This CAN be a way to flush the toilet all the time...but most commonly it's used to flush all the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit. And there's actually an easy way to install a separate flush water tank: stuff a 5-6 gallon UNvented bladder into any location that's convenient to both the toilet and the head sink drain line. Tee the fill into the sink drain line using a y-valve (even a $3.95 garden hose wye will work for this application)...connect the head line to the bladder. No other plumbing required....no separate fill, no vent needed. To fill the bladder, turn the valves, run water down the sink. Then put the valves back to use the sink normally. If/when fresh water is in short supply, you COULD refill the bladder with a bucket of sea water. As for the VacuFlush...before spending upwards of $1000 for it, I strongly suggest you check out other toilets that use pressurized flush water. You can have everything the V/Flush offers and more--without losing a big chunk of your storage space to components--for as little as $400. Just my $.02 worth.
Not clear on the concept of being tired of
dropping a cup of water into the head. I understand the T tap into the sink drain, and even purchased the materials to do that. But it occurred to me that the head sink is right there with the head itself, and that the toothbrush cup is about as close as it can be. Please help me understand: "...and I'm tired of the "fill the jug up first, pour into head, do the deed and pump, add more water, pump, etc etc etc....)." Just a personal question, like, how hard is that, really? And to save fresh water, which we should always do, I only fill up the bowl when more than #1 is involved, and only need to use fresh water to do that last flush before we leave the boat. Just a thought to reduce the hard work.
dropping a cup of water into the head. I understand the T tap into the sink drain, and even purchased the materials to do that. But it occurred to me that the head sink is right there with the head itself, and that the toothbrush cup is about as close as it can be. Please help me understand: "...and I'm tired of the "fill the jug up first, pour into head, do the deed and pump, add more water, pump, etc etc etc....)." Just a personal question, like, how hard is that, really? And to save fresh water, which we should always do, I only fill up the bowl when more than #1 is involved, and only need to use fresh water to do that last flush before we leave the boat. Just a thought to reduce the hard work.
Fresh Water Sprayer
What I did was tap into my under sink fresh water which is close to the head and just spray in what ever amount of water needed. I also have the normal sea water hook up which I keep closed when using fresh water and can just use the sea water when the fresh water is needed. I use the fresh water sprayer when plenty of fresh water is available and open the tru hull for sea water use when fresh water needs to be saved. It was easy to do. Nick
What I did was tap into my under sink fresh water which is close to the head and just spray in what ever amount of water needed. I also have the normal sea water hook up which I keep closed when using fresh water and can just use the sea water when the fresh water is needed. I use the fresh water sprayer when plenty of fresh water is available and open the tru hull for sea water use when fresh water needs to be saved. It was easy to do. Nick
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