Several folks have adivsed me to look at used versus new. Buying a used car is a gamble. What advise do you have for a prospective 1st time owner, to differentiate between "lemons" and "good deals". I'd like to avoid making my 1st ownership a regretable "last experience"?
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hp
suggestion
be sure to have a complete survey done on the boat this includes a in water sea trial and a on land hull inspection,make a mechanical inspection mandatory (hire a good mechanic). you will then know the condition of the boat and be able to buy or reject it. Check market value and make a reasonable offer based on condition, the MOST important thing is being able to walk away from a deal that is bad! Rember there is always another boat for sale!
be sure to have a complete survey done on the boat this includes a in water sea trial and a on land hull inspection,make a mechanical inspection mandatory (hire a good mechanic). you will then know the condition of the boat and be able to buy or reject it. Check market value and make a reasonable offer based on condition, the MOST important thing is being able to walk away from a deal that is bad! Rember there is always another boat for sale!
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Boats aren't cars...
There's no reason to avoid a well maintained and cared-for used boat, any more than you'd avoid a well maintained "used" house. Just make any offer on one "subject to survey" and hire the best surveyor you can find. We recently had a discussion about whether to survey or not...it should be accessible in the archives, and should answer many of your questions about what a survey is (very much like a home inspection), and other issues about buying a used boat.
There's no reason to avoid a well maintained and cared-for used boat, any more than you'd avoid a well maintained "used" house. Just make any offer on one "subject to survey" and hire the best surveyor you can find. We recently had a discussion about whether to survey or not...it should be accessible in the archives, and should answer many of your questions about what a survey is (very much like a home inspection), and other issues about buying a used boat.
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Debra B
Condition And Value Survey
Make sure the survey is a condition and value survey. Actually this will be required unless you pay cash and don't want insurance. A good survey will tell you mostly what to expect from a boat. Anything that is safety related will likely need to be fixed right after you close on the deal. Your insurance company will insist on it. When you look at prices, you can get a lot more boat for the money if you go used.
Make sure the survey is a condition and value survey. Actually this will be required unless you pay cash and don't want insurance. A good survey will tell you mostly what to expect from a boat. Anything that is safety related will likely need to be fixed right after you close on the deal. Your insurance company will insist on it. When you look at prices, you can get a lot more boat for the money if you go used.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
A prepurchase survey, not a C&V survey
A "condition and value" survey is only a cursory survey to determine two things: whether the boat APPEARS to be worth the amount being financed or insured, and anything that actually endangers the boat. Whether the systems are in good condition--or even whether they work at all--is immaterial in a C&V survey. The hatches can leak like sieves...as long as the boat isn't taking on water below the waterline. The holding tank can leak--it doesn't threaten the boat nor add or detract from its value. A burner on the stove may not work, but as long as neither it nor the propane tank are leaking gas, and the propane tank is stored in a properly vented locker, it doesn't affect the basic value of the boat. The boat can desperately need bottom paint...have blisters...etc., etc. But as long as the OVERALL appearance is good and there's nothing wrong that's likely to cause it catch fire or sink, that's all a lender and insurance company want to know. In fact, a C&V survey doesn't even always require a haulout. That depends upon how long it's been since the last one and the individual lender's or insurance carrier's requirments. Otoh, a full pre-purchase survey includes every inch of the boat, and finds all those things I just mentioned that can cost you as the buyer money to fix if you don't know about them before you buy the boat. And it costs about twice as much as a C&V because it takes at least twice as long to do.
A "condition and value" survey is only a cursory survey to determine two things: whether the boat APPEARS to be worth the amount being financed or insured, and anything that actually endangers the boat. Whether the systems are in good condition--or even whether they work at all--is immaterial in a C&V survey. The hatches can leak like sieves...as long as the boat isn't taking on water below the waterline. The holding tank can leak--it doesn't threaten the boat nor add or detract from its value. A burner on the stove may not work, but as long as neither it nor the propane tank are leaking gas, and the propane tank is stored in a properly vented locker, it doesn't affect the basic value of the boat. The boat can desperately need bottom paint...have blisters...etc., etc. But as long as the OVERALL appearance is good and there's nothing wrong that's likely to cause it catch fire or sink, that's all a lender and insurance company want to know. In fact, a C&V survey doesn't even always require a haulout. That depends upon how long it's been since the last one and the individual lender's or insurance carrier's requirments. Otoh, a full pre-purchase survey includes every inch of the boat, and finds all those things I just mentioned that can cost you as the buyer money to fix if you don't know about them before you buy the boat. And it costs about twice as much as a C&V because it takes at least twice as long to do.
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TOM MCNAMARA
used
i have owned 4 used boats,most expensive was 165,000. i went and bought a 450 in 1999 new and have been replacing things ever since and would never do it again . so far the tab is at 300,000 and rising. the one reason i bought new is for the trade in which saves you a lot of problems, [the taxes,and finding a buyer] i also got stuck with a bad dealer,but i have been advised by the forum, no bad mouthing.the other responses explained most of things so i will not be repettative all over again. in my case i am looking to trade in my boat for a larger one [65ft used] but have to wait until it comes along. my bet for a smaller one,36 and under and no trade in problem is to tour the marinas and see what is for sale and there will also be an awful lot of people who know the boat and then you can get agood surveyor. then with the help of this forum you will do right. MCBUBBA720@AOL.COM P.S.
i have owned 4 used boats,most expensive was 165,000. i went and bought a 450 in 1999 new and have been replacing things ever since and would never do it again . so far the tab is at 300,000 and rising. the one reason i bought new is for the trade in which saves you a lot of problems, [the taxes,and finding a buyer] i also got stuck with a bad dealer,but i have been advised by the forum, no bad mouthing.the other responses explained most of things so i will not be repettative all over again. in my case i am looking to trade in my boat for a larger one [65ft used] but have to wait until it comes along. my bet for a smaller one,36 and under and no trade in problem is to tour the marinas and see what is for sale and there will also be an awful lot of people who know the boat and then you can get agood surveyor. then with the help of this forum you will do right. MCBUBBA720@AOL.COM P.S.
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Scott Blahnik
Looking is the fun part
The internet is a great place to start looking at new vs. used. If you haven't already done so, you can visit all the marinas and brokers in Texas, or the whole Gulf coast area. They have the lists of boats available and you can even see pictures of them most of the time. Then take fun trips to see the ones you might be interested in. For me, all the used boats were too used, and I opted for new- that was over 6 months ago and still no boat. If you go new, try for in stock! Good Luck!
The internet is a great place to start looking at new vs. used. If you haven't already done so, you can visit all the marinas and brokers in Texas, or the whole Gulf coast area. They have the lists of boats available and you can even see pictures of them most of the time. Then take fun trips to see the ones you might be interested in. For me, all the used boats were too used, and I opted for new- that was over 6 months ago and still no boat. If you go new, try for in stock! Good Luck!
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TOM MCNAMARA
USED
SORRY--MY COMPUTER stinks it is MCBUBBA720@AOL.COM THE P.S. was, i dont think hunter makes lemons the dealers do. buy a 1995 boat that someone knows and you cant go wrong.
SORRY--MY COMPUTER stinks it is MCBUBBA720@AOL.COM THE P.S. was, i dont think hunter makes lemons the dealers do. buy a 1995 boat that someone knows and you cant go wrong.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
A couple more thoughts...
Unlike used cars, people rarely if ever sell boats because they're "worn out" or have expensive problems (which would show up in a survey and either cost 'em money to fix in order to sell the boat, or greatly reduce what they can get for the boat)...they sell 'em because they're looking for something larger or just different. And, new boats are pretty bare...but the first owner(s) of used boats have already added all those things that aren't on new boats--fenders, VHF, dock lines, boat hooks, anchors, fire extinguishers--those are just the things you HAVE to have...and often you'll find lots of little and not so little owner-added extras--from bookshelves to microwaves--things you'd add to a new boat yourself. It all adds up--to anywhere from several hundered to several thousand dollars that has little or no impact on the fair market value of the boat. It can be compared to landscaping a house...you have put in all those trees, bushes and beds to give the place "curb appeal," but you don't get one dime of it back when you sell.
Unlike used cars, people rarely if ever sell boats because they're "worn out" or have expensive problems (which would show up in a survey and either cost 'em money to fix in order to sell the boat, or greatly reduce what they can get for the boat)...they sell 'em because they're looking for something larger or just different. And, new boats are pretty bare...but the first owner(s) of used boats have already added all those things that aren't on new boats--fenders, VHF, dock lines, boat hooks, anchors, fire extinguishers--those are just the things you HAVE to have...and often you'll find lots of little and not so little owner-added extras--from bookshelves to microwaves--things you'd add to a new boat yourself. It all adds up--to anywhere from several hundered to several thousand dollars that has little or no impact on the fair market value of the boat. It can be compared to landscaping a house...you have put in all those trees, bushes and beds to give the place "curb appeal," but you don't get one dime of it back when you sell.
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Been There
Used may have FEWER problems
If you browse this board and others, you will discover that new boats come off the line with quite a few bugs that needs correction or repair. These include items such as: line clutches installed backwards, clogged tank vents, wiring gremlins, and even the hull-deck joint separating at the transom. Boat builders do not come close to the auto manufacturers in quality control. Not even close. The second owner of a boat a few years old often gets a more complete and less faulty product than the new owner.
If you browse this board and others, you will discover that new boats come off the line with quite a few bugs that needs correction or repair. These include items such as: line clutches installed backwards, clogged tank vents, wiring gremlins, and even the hull-deck joint separating at the transom. Boat builders do not come close to the auto manufacturers in quality control. Not even close. The second owner of a boat a few years old often gets a more complete and less faulty product than the new owner.
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Bob Getchell
As long as the owner cares...
I dont know who can afford to buy a new boat and either let it deteriorate or actually destroy it through misuse, but there sure seem to be plenty that fit both categories. (Un)fortunately, I think the best bargains are with these kinds of boats where the owners have lost interest but the savings comes at the expense of numerous and sometimes (always) costly "projects".
I dont know who can afford to buy a new boat and either let it deteriorate or actually destroy it through misuse, but there sure seem to be plenty that fit both categories. (Un)fortunately, I think the best bargains are with these kinds of boats where the owners have lost interest but the savings comes at the expense of numerous and sometimes (always) costly "projects".
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Sam Lust
Educate Yourself !!!!
Unless you're very well-to-do and can afford to pay people to do all of the things you should be doing for yourself on a boat LEARN. I can't stress it enough. Look at boats. Look at used boats. Be a pain in the butt. Climb in, over, under and through. If a previous owner or broker tries to hurry you walk away. A survey should serve to confirm to you that the boat you've selected and completely inspected is as good as you think and to pick up on anything you as an amateur missed. There are books and articles on buying used boats. Buy 'em and read 'em. Frankly, if you're asking that question you need to know lots more. You haven't said what size you're looking at, but to me the best way to start is with a small, beat-up, cheap used boat. Lots to fix and learn on, yet mistakes on a small boat are cheap, yet the learning curve is easy and rewarding. Some of us are new boat buyers and some of us are used buyers. I prefer used. Let someone else pay off the new boat profits. Let him also agonize over the first scratch. I'm happy with the value I got buying used.
Unless you're very well-to-do and can afford to pay people to do all of the things you should be doing for yourself on a boat LEARN. I can't stress it enough. Look at boats. Look at used boats. Be a pain in the butt. Climb in, over, under and through. If a previous owner or broker tries to hurry you walk away. A survey should serve to confirm to you that the boat you've selected and completely inspected is as good as you think and to pick up on anything you as an amateur missed. There are books and articles on buying used boats. Buy 'em and read 'em. Frankly, if you're asking that question you need to know lots more. You haven't said what size you're looking at, but to me the best way to start is with a small, beat-up, cheap used boat. Lots to fix and learn on, yet mistakes on a small boat are cheap, yet the learning curve is easy and rewarding. Some of us are new boat buyers and some of us are used buyers. I prefer used. Let someone else pay off the new boat profits. Let him also agonize over the first scratch. I'm happy with the value I got buying used.
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Ed Schenck
Sam is right.
You make the decision after lots of time educating yourself. The fact that you asked the question tells us that you should not rush into this. I grew up with boats but didn't buy my first sailboat until I was almost 60. Agonized for two years over the commitment, worse than getting married! Ultimately I disagree with most of the responses. If money were no object I would buy NEW. It would be a custom boat because I now know what I want in a boat. It would come from the factory with all those things you normally add later at great expense: SSB, radar, chartplotter, etc. And the sale would be contingent on a very long sea trial and a really good warranty.
You make the decision after lots of time educating yourself. The fact that you asked the question tells us that you should not rush into this. I grew up with boats but didn't buy my first sailboat until I was almost 60. Agonized for two years over the commitment, worse than getting married! Ultimately I disagree with most of the responses. If money were no object I would buy NEW. It would be a custom boat because I now know what I want in a boat. It would come from the factory with all those things you normally add later at great expense: SSB, radar, chartplotter, etc. And the sale would be contingent on a very long sea trial and a really good warranty.
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