Used Cruiser Discussion - Old or Nearly New

KD3PC · Jul 23, 2012

Insurance may be an issue on an older boat....

otherwise your thoughts are dead on...for us, it comes down to the condition of the boat, and what I intend to use it for....

Bill1565 · Jul 23, 2012

Ducati said:
How easy would it be to unload the old (up to date) classic and would we take a bigger hit when it came time to sell?
Comments?

It depends on two things. One how good a deal you got at purchase. Two The economy. Nobody ever "needs" a 40 foot sailboat. In good times (remember those) lots of people want one.

Our choice was an old, heavy, soild glass boat. We are still pleased with it.

In your case, cost/benefit would be much better if you spent a few bucks to fix whatever your wife doesn't like about the 36 footer.

bffatcat · Jul 23, 2012

other considerations

lets not forget older construction methods vs new. The construction of boats built in the last
decade is just not the same as boats built in the 70`s and 80`s. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with newer boats. They are built lighter in most cases. The old Pearsons, Bristols, Ericsons, etc have faded into the past never to be seen again. Its a matter
of personal preferance.

tommays · Jul 23, 2012

I can only go by a boat like the Cal 29 i own and NO MATTER what you do the boats value will NOT go above market price X and from what i see most boats follow that rule

For example becasue of its over all condition even with the A4 it values out above the same boat with a diesel

It is a 1970 boat and if they survey good there is no insurance issue

Marty A · Jul 23, 2012

Beyond the survey I would take a very close look at the condition of the wiring and plumbing. In my previous older boat alot of the wiring had cracks in the insulation and the PO had hacked up some of the circuits so that they took a lot of remove and replace just to be sure of where they were going and for what purpose. A survey SHOULD reveal all that but it's worth double checking.

The plumbing on that age of a boat will also be suspect. Unless it's already been replaced it's possible to be at least partially copper tube, but maybe not. Similarly with equipment, you may have a lot of deferred maintenance/replacement that you'll take on.

Despite my bitching I loved that boat (Gulfstar 37) but ongoing maintenance and the desires of my partners forced a change. Luckily the new owner took the vessel to heart and has really made it more beautiful than I could.

oldersalt · Jul 23, 2012

Older or Newer?

Either way it's always a crap shoot. Older boat: possibly lower initial cost but likely more in upgrades and repairs. Newer boat: higher initial cost, but still maybe lots of upgrades and repairs.
My opinion? First, younger or older, buy quality. Learn the reputation of the boat and the builder and stay away from "potato chip boats" regardless of their cost. Ultimately the higher quality boat, even if it costs more, will last longer and be easier to sell. Even more important, buy the boat you fall in love with. Boat ownership is NEVER financially sound and will ALWAYS cost more than you expect. If you don't love the boat it will soon become a horrible burden no matter what. If she doesn't make your heart sing when you look at her, don't bother.
Good luck!

Delezynski · Jul 23, 2012

Ducati,

I take it you are looking at cruising as your goal.

Like was said in another reply, what you plan to do with the boat (off shore or coastal) makes one of the first decisions. BUT, remember, plans change as you use it! So, that can not be the only thing to take into consideration.

Next, what is your time line? How long do you have before you plan to take the boat some place?

I have seen MANY go cruising, and can say that NO MATTER the age of the boat you get, it will take a bucket of $$$ to get going!

Does anyone remember the story about the guy who started West Marine? He bought a new boat and had it outfitted with all the toys. After a year in the South Pacific, he returned disgusted. So much “NEW” stuff broke down and when he went to replace it, the “newer” items were NOT plug and play!

My advice to some one starting out asking your type of question would be to look for an older boat that was well constructed, NO CRACKS in the hull & deck. A Structural sound boat. And lean very heavy on quality over size!!!!! A well found 30 footer is worth a massive amounts more than a go fast 60 footer!

Then decide how much stuff you can do on your own and learn the rest as you can. Start early and live aboard for a year or more as YOU fix the systems that require updates. By doing it your self, you are not only learning your boat, you are preparing yourself for cruising. Self reliance is a major factor when cruising.

I remember a guy calling on Ch 16 when we were days from ANY services. He was asking for help with his engine. When we said we would help trouble shoot the problem he snapped back at us, “I don't want to work on it, I want some one to come out here and fix it for me”!!!!!

I was done and continued sailing on, there was no hope for him as far as I could tell. I never did hear if he got help or not.

Learning your boat is as important as the age of it.

Just my stump speech.........

After that, I can say GO FOR IT!!! It's worth it and much more.

Greg

Tim R. · Jul 23, 2012

Newer, smaller is better than bigger, older in my opinion.

A vast majority of owners, and not your typical SBO crew, neglect their boats, especially when for sale. Generally speaking, the older they are, the more neglected.

windward54 · Jul 23, 2012

My wife and I went though the very same discussion a couple of years ago when we decided to go a little bigger and buy a larger boat. We really liked the older designed boats and the style they had, and looked seriously at four boats, two old and two new. In the end, the newer prevailed.

For us, we looked at all the amount of work needed to bring back the older boats and upgrade them to a level we wanted. We also factored in the annual upkeep and maintenance. Against that, we compared the performance and ease of the modern boats. By the time we got done looking at all the costs and laying everything out, the new boats beat the older boats by a wide margin. So we opted for a newer boat and have been very happy wth our purchase.

sailaway78 · Jul 23, 2012

Not mentioned

Not mentioned in the previous posts is this. How much of the work are you able/willing to do. This can mean lots and lots of dollars, between doing the work and having it done. Another factor, is if you go through an older boat, upgrading and updating, you know what it there, where it's at, and how it works. This can be a life savor if your planning on cruising to out of the way places.

higgs · Jul 23, 2012

I echo Nice. Old boats are a good deal if you are going to do the work yourself and if you don't expect a $ return on your labor. If you are going to hire the work out, it is a different matter.

Joe · Jul 24, 2012

Condition.... Condition..... Condition... that's what counts. New boats get old fast when neglected.

anchorclanker · Jul 24, 2012

Neat thing is, there isnt any one way to go, and the world is replete with opinions. Do it your way. Like said, older were more often built stronger, so condition is important. Dont fudge on your ability. Some can fix anything, others dont know one end of a screwdriver from the other. For the guy or gal who has strong mechanical ability, an older boat in good shape is not a problem. For those with lesser ability, even a new boat can become a nightmare, an older boat even more so.

Delezynski · Jul 24, 2012

Hate to be blunt about this, but I have got to say....:neutral:

Anyone talking about return on investment (in regards to a pleasure boat) is NOT thinking about a cruising boat! You are about as likely to get money back on that last vacation as you are to get all of the money back on ANY boat, new OR old. You just loose more on a new boat.

What you DO get is a life altering experience that IS priceless.:dance:

AND, if you can't fix it yourself, don't go cruising. You are just going to have to many frustrations. I HAVE SEEN IT! It makes a lot of people who planned for years and years to go, and then quit after less than a year. STUFF BREAKS.

Greg

Nodak7 · Jul 24, 2012

Delezynski said:
Hate to be blunt about this, but I have got to say....:neutral:

Anyone talking about return on investment (in regards to a pleasure boat) is NOT thinking about a cruising boat! You are about as likely to get money back on that last vacation as you are to get all of the money back on ANY boat, new OR old. You just loose more on a new boat.

What you DO get is a life altering experience that IS priceless.:dance:

AND, if you can't fix it yourself, don't go cruising. You are just going to have to many frustrations. I HAVE SEEN IT! It makes a lot of people who planned for years and years to go, and then quit after less than a year. STUFF BREAKS.

Greg

Greg, I have to agree with you! When it comes to boats (of any kind) you cannot justify them nor can you think about an ROI. You may think about selling it from the day you bought it but never, ever think of it as an "investment" that might return anything other than satisfaction and pleasure of ownership! If you are buying it to make money on it later good luck to you! There is a good reason they call boats "a hole in the water you throw money into"!

BTW I like the picture!

Delezynski · Jul 24, 2012

Ducati,

Good thread you started!

I think I know what you are saying, but the used boat market is not like other markets. In real estate, it's LOCATION, location location. In boats, it's more like quality, quality, quality.

Without spending quite a bit of time researching the market, it's hard to tell how that falls out. Some older boats, ones that have a very good rep, will loose almost no value over years. Others can drop through the floor. You could purchase a new/newer boat and loose a lot of money or get an older boat and loose very little.

Talking to older sailors may or may not help. Finding a VERY good broker (few and far between) will do it for some boats. The more of an idea of your plans gives the broker a better idea of the type of boat that will work.

AND, this is a great place to get more ideas once you are clear.

Don't fall for bigger is better. And make sure you understand the difference between comfort underway, at anchor, or at the dock. One does NOT equate to the other.

Have you done any charters? have you spent time aboard any boats yet? If so, underway?

(NOTE; the photo in my above post is Isla Salsipuedes, Sea of Cortez. We spent quite a bit of time there without seeing another boat.

)

John · Jul 24, 2012

They say you will never get back in dollars what you spent to upgrade a boat. That tells me that you will save money getting one that is newer/already upgraded.

Rick D · Jul 24, 2012

I have not read this full thread, but if you are ready to go cruising, I'd definitely shop in Mexico or the Carib, or SoFla to get one that is already equipped and sorted out. You can buy one well cruised for little dollars and she won't be worth what a stock boat will be because of the mods. Definitely consider a cruised boat up for sale A short inspection will tell you if it's a good skilled owner or a slob. Too many good boats to pass up.