Used Boat Prices So Far Off For Same Model??

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Apr 26, 2009
107
Catalina 309 #168 kentucky lake
I know you can set the "asking" sale price for your sailboat or anything else for that matter where ever you want, however, I have been looking at some Catalina 310's for sale for the last year and noticed the same year model's selling prices so different, examples:

2004 $94,342 Great Lakes
2004 $85,900 NY
2004 $65,900 Fl

2005 $101,000 Great Lakes
2005 $86,900 NY
2005 64,900 FL (SOLD)

It's interesting FL boats sell for the least and Great Lake boats for the most, I would certainly prefer a lake boat since I will be keeping it in a lake, is the price difference because FL. heat and salt water beat up the boat so much more? if so, how much of a toll does the FL climate take on a <5 year old boat?

Thanks in advance to all you salty dogs out there, I am not new to sailing, but haven't owned my own sailboat "yet"

Donny
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Fair market value: The price in dollars that willing and knowledgeable buyer will pay and a willing and knowledgeable seller will accept for merchandice after a reasonable exposure to the market. Yes there are regional differences in the market price for cars, houses, boats and labor.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,182
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I Think You Nailed It

In SoCal, my boat is worth 20% more than in Florida. Also, I think a boat in the NE is worth more than mine and one in the GL worth more than it. Some has to do with wear and tear (usable months) and some salt vs. fresh water. I think it may also have something to do with maintenance. It seems to me from years hanging around these boards and from travel that they also tend to have better maintenance, at least cosmetically. Some of that is do to more ease of it when the boat is on the hard (IMHO). BTW, a friend sold her 40.5 recently for full (but well-reduced) asking price but she is providing owner-financing. Based upon comments from several brokers concerning the lack of available loans, that is probably an attractive option for a seller.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
The Irwin 35 listed on the homepage here looks like an incredible boat for $40,000. I would rather have that than an almost new 310. But I am more for sailing in salt water.
 

Tom J

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Sep 30, 2008
2,319
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
It's true that there are regional differences in the value of boats. What's routine maintenance in New England while the boat is on the hard, is hard to do here in Florida since the boat comes out of the water only every 2 or 3 years. And, yes, the sun does a job on gelcoat, biminis, zodiacs, etc., etc.
But you'd also need to know how those individual boats are equipped in order to campare values. My Catalina 310 came with a lot of extras that I took for granted, but would jump the value over a similar boat, I think.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
A number of things play a significant role, in my experience.

Popularity. If a boat has a strong local following (such as S2's on the Great Lakes).

Condition. Recent repowering can add ten thousand to a boat. Wet decks can halve the price of a boat.

Options. A boat with an optional larger engine can go for more. For example, 1 cyl diesel S2 9.2A's go for less, all other things being equal, than 2 cyl. Early boats with gas engines also typically sell for less.

Equipment. A boat with a recent set of sails or new electronics may sell for more too.
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
Dwelling too much on price (and not condition)

The new-to-boats buyer tends to get hung up on the price, and I'm talking about used boats, not new boats.

The used boat is different from another used boat. It's somewhat like buying a car but with a difference. Most used cars are all alike (no DIY mods), save the options that were available at the time, like color, upholstery, convenience group packages, etc. These are factory-installed options, not DIY, and are all the same. After that, there are variables like where the vehicle is driven (rural dirt roads vs. urban paved roads, the "driven by a little old lady" and garaged vs. the parked outside suburb commuter vehicle, etc. Wear and tear like vehicle miles, upholstery damage, dings and dents are significant value determiners.

The Great Lakes and NE typically will have boats with less wear and tear because of the shorter boating season but they can also have freeze damage. I was just told about one boat that had a split keel (was not bolt-on) and engine damage due to freezing. Fresh water boats tend to get more blisters. On the other hand, UV damage is fierce on plastics. Then there is hurricane/storm damage.

Used boats, on the other hand, can have similar value determiners to cars, like engine hours, dings and dents, etc, but there is one other important area known as DIY modifications. Some boats tend to have numerous owner-installed modifications which are generally billed as "improvements" (look at any boat for sale ad to see a list). Unfortunately, I've seen many of these so-called improvements that are more damaging than beneficial and on a fiberglass and teak boat the damages are too expensive to un-do. Holes drilled through bulkheads to install speakers and TV/stereo systems, cockpit speaker installations, holes in the structural grid to run wires, owner varnished interior, etc. The list goes on.

Yesterday I was talked to a "new boat owner" couple that just acquired an older (1988) Fair Weather Mariner 39 that they bought. Part of the reason they bought it was because it did NOT have DIY "improvements". We discussed some of these so-called "improvements" we had seen on other boats and it was interesting that a long time sailor (he circumnavigated the world on his previous boat) and myself agreed on this DIY issue. They had the same problem with DIY butcher-jobs that did more harm than good and bought this boat because they didn't have to deal with correcting previous owner DIY projects.

Then there is the charter vs owner owned boat. Just like the rental car vs the privately owned car. And cars from the coast have more rust, then Washington and Oregon cars, even not on the coast, have more rust than California cars. Old collector cars from the '30s to the '50s bring more money in Washington if they are from California (but not from the coast).

Speaking of charter boats, liveaboard boats also tend to be more "used". The charter companies argue that "our boats are cleaned and maintained by professionals". Yes, but... sounds like the rental car sales places. Then there are cars that are advertised at being a "good commuter". Translated this usually means a "beater".

Area price variations (NE, S, Lakes, NW, SW), I suspect, to a large degree probably take into account the condition. Boats are reasonably mobile via truck or on their own bottom, so this will help to keep the resale market level.

In real estate they say "location, location, location". So for boats, what about "condition, condition, condition"?

Basically, each older used boat is different and should be considered on it's merits and not use a "blue book" cook book. If one wants to shop price then shop price ("beaters" are cheaper), but at least for me the condition, including DIY mods and maintenance (quality or lack thereof), is extremely important.
 
Nov 30, 2007
272
Hunter 36 Forked River, NJ
Sig,
Ditto what everyone else says..., but also notice that from your list only the boat with the lowest asking price sold.
 
Last edited:
Jun 7, 2004
11
Cabo Rico 36 Daytona Beach
Prices reflect ...

I think prices generally reflect what the owner wants to get from his/her boat based on what they've put in it. So owners way too often over price their boats, and it all depends on how badly and quickly they want to sell. If an owner is not willing to dicker over the final price, walk away and find another boat from someone who understands that boats always lose value. Practical Sailor ran a piece about six years ago that gave suggested values on used boats in a spread sheet that covered many boats over twenty or more years. I found it really useful in determining values.
 
J

jcole@coledata.com

Florida

There are a few factors that lead to the depressed prices in Florida:

Marina space in FL is at a premium, and consequently the cost of storage is much higher, resulting in owners beeing keener to sell.

Many sailboats available in Florida are either from the charter market, or are for sail because a snowgoose learned that they really didn't enjoy passagemaking.

Many powerboats available in Florida are owned by recent widows looking to dump something they just can't use.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
my ericson has been for sale for 3 yrs at 30k--and worth it--now i cannot get anything for her so i will keep her out of spite...lol---there is a huge difference between asking a price and selling a boat--someone said in so cal his boat was worth 20 percent more than in fla--HAHAHAHAH---- try selling it at that price now----wont happen-----the value of the boat is what the purchasor will pay for the boat...just like your houses.....goooood luck........is a total BUYERS market....lol.....yay crappy economy....lol.....as for m arina space in kalifornikatin---HAINT NONE...cannot sell a boat without marina space....
 
W

William179a

other factors in boat value

Aside from the factors already mentioned that influence a boat's price, I would add that small boats are much like small airplanes.

The three things a small plane has which are about equal in consideration are: the soundness of the structure, the engine, and the instruments. All of those are influenced by age just like a car can be an antique masterpiece or a junkyard piece of art.

An old tired Loran is about worthless, but a GPS included is nice. How many hours on the engine? How does it sound and run? What conditions are the sails? Dingy included to get to shore? On the structure, soft spots on deck, blisters on hull, corrosion on rigging? Coast Guard package up to date with holding tank?

I also figure that people who have had the money to own and maintain a boat do not seem to be motivated to sell. I guess the economy has to completely fall apart, as it will with jobs being lost at a rate of 500,000 per month.
 
Aug 2, 2005
374
pearson ariel grand rapids
It's true that there are regional differences in the value of boats. What's routine maintenance in New England while the boat is on the hard, is hard to do here in Florida since the boat comes out of the water only every 2 or 3 years. And, yes, the sun does a job on gelcoat, biminis, zodiacs, etc., etc.
But you'd also need to know how those individual boats are equipped in order to campare values. My Catalina 310 came with a lot of extras that I took for granted, but would jump the value over a similar boat, I think.
Region has a huge effect on prices. Freshwater and seasonal use is a big plus for for improving resale value.
I think I was the only boat that really sailed from one marina I was at for a while. About the only time I ever saw one of those boats leave the dock was the fourth of july.

Years ago my friend and I used to make a decent side income buying motorcycles up here and hauling them down to Florida, we could buy 5 or 6 year old bikes here for a few hundred each, and double that when we got them to florida where they were low mileage bikes.

Ken.
 
May 24, 2004
6
Sabre 34 MkI Solomons, MD
In addition to all of the reasons already mentioned, Florida used boat prices have always been lower than prices published in all other U.S. locations primarily because of the principles you learned in Econ. 101...Too many boats chasing too few buyers...lots of price competition. Obviously, the situation has only become worse now that "buyers" have virtually dried up everywhere..
 
Jan 3, 2005
50
- - Punta Gorda, FL
I had a guy just recently tell me to look up the boat on N.A.D.A. and add about 20% for the extras and that's a good price to pay... Anyone else want to comment on this? I'd like to know
 

KD3PC

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Sep 25, 2008
1,069
boatless rainbow Callao, VA
NADA is all but useless for anything that is over 23-25'....it is an auto website, and their stats and algorithms reflect that.

Why not look at the boat, assess it for your needs, make an offer pending survey of what it is worth to YOU, after survey you can negotiate a price or walk away. Having been on both ends of the transaction, this is by far the best way.

the books mean nothing in today's new economy. Even the best only show what some percentage of the population paid for "similar" (and that is where the real problem, comes in) units, some months back at some auction.

Then take the numbers to a bank and see if they will loan you the money, and you better have at LEAST 20% down, FICO above 730, and reasonable history.

Best of luck
 
Oct 4, 2004
24
International Offshore 50 Alameda
Little difference in the boats - big difference in the price!

I have bought and sold many boats in the 90s - most of them just happened to be Catalina's.

I have never owned a boat that I did not make money on - including all dock fees, taxes and improvements (with the exception of my very first boat - a Cal 20 which I broke even on).

You will find little or no difference in the boats up north or down south with a few exceptions.
Northern boats will often have full canvas enclosures and frequently they will be in dark colors.
In Florida, few will have full enclosures and most will have "cool" colors like white or light gray. Florida boats often come with complete air conditioning systems and very good ice-makers.
Northern boats often have good heaters.

The boat prices are simply economics and supply and demand:

In the larger sailboat category nobody beats Florida - they have a ton of them by comparison to all the other states. The Great Lakes area is know as having the greatest number of boats but the vast majority of them are small fishing boats, runabouts - way less than 30 ft.

Florida and all the other southern states have more larger sailboats and they use them more (its hot more and the "season" is generally year round - not iced over).

If one region has 50 Cat 30s for sale and another has 5, the greater number means greater competition for a buyer.

Florida has been VERY hard hit by the recession - the housing market was even more absurd in that area than in most of the rest of the country.

There will be almost no difference between a 5 year old boat in Florida and the Great Lakes area. The Florida boat may have had more use and the engine may have more hours but the overall look and feel will be basically the same - all things equal.

Everything costs more as you go North - think of it - ever try to run a seasonal business?
Have fun staying alive in the boating business up north - you have to charge more and limp through the winter.

Currently approximately 70% of those in the boating business are unemployed!
You should see the trade papers - they are super thin - just a fraction of what they were 1.5 years ago. Today and for several years to come boat prices will decline dramatically as home prices in most regions will continue to de-leverage.

The southern states always have considerable savings compared to the north and the internet has really opened up this fact. Dealers frequently buy down south and ship up north.
People are generally suspicious and would rather purchase from someone local that they "know" instead of picking up a great boat at 30 or 40% less in another area from someone someone else "knows" - (odd but very true).

Do not hesitate to jump on a plane and make a vacation out of it!
A dealer is not necessary in the least, but if you have the cash and any questions as to your ability to vet a boat - BRING a surveyor you know and trust - they will actually tell you the truth based on many years of inspecting boats, and they will be paid for services rendered regardless of whether you purchase the boat or not. They may also be very helpful in overseeing the proper preparation of your new boat for transport.
Typically a surveyor will cost: 300-500 per day plus food/drink and all transportation, plus cost of full survey if done. If they do a great job - give them a good tip - remember they were far less expensive than a dealer and they steered you to a good boat not a "big commission".

If you are going to buy away from home - take a video with you and make a movie of the contents of the boat. If the purchase is out of country, I suggest you stay with the boat from purchase to shipping. Too many stories of a stripped boat arriving home.

I hope this has been of use.

Fair winds,

David
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
these days are not like the 90s--there is a crappy market out there and folks are afraid to buy anything much less boats lol.....if you donot believe--try selling one now---lol--is a TOTAL buyers market....
 
May 5, 2009
14
Hunter 25.5 Apollo Beach
Just a short distance can make a difference

In Atlanta around Lake Lanier - the prices are half of those in Chattanooga. Supply & Demand - There are dozens of boats for sale in Atlanta and a couple in Chattanooga. Distance - 100 miles but no waterway between the two.
 
Apr 26, 2009
107
Catalina 309 #168 kentucky lake
soggysocks and others

Thank you all for your replies to my questions.

Donny
 
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