I am looking for suggestions. I just purchased my first "big" boat a 1975 Cat 27 (#1885). It is in great shape structurally(surveyer thought so to) However, it has not been in the water for three years so it does need a good bit of bright work. I am looking for specific products and procedures: The deck needs cleaned, it has black shoe marks and stains in the cockpit from dirty leafy stagnet water. My teak is very grey. The surveyer said it will come back with some work. What is required to do this. In the main salon there is some mildew on the walls and ceiling. is there a suggestion for cleaning this. The galley counter is also a teak but it looks oiled. the finish looks uneven and spotty. Do I just use a househol oil. I appriciate any help or suggestions. It is still very cold here in Cleveland but I hape to have the boat in the water in late April. So I am trying to get as much information now so on the first warm day I can head to the boat yard. Thanks Skip
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LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners
Cleaning
You should talk to Island Girl (in the Gelcoat Forum on this site) about their products. I used FSR (Fiberglass Stain Remover) on gelcoat that was mud encrusted/stained & it came out very nice. You can get it at West Marine & is basically just oxalic acid in gel form. I'm sure Island Girl's products are less toxic! Sanding, sanding, sanding is required for your teak. If you're opposed to that much sanding, you could pressure wash the teak (on a low setting) but know that it will cause the grain to raise quite a bit. It'll still be gray but a very light, pleasant gray instead of the ugly blackish gray it can get with neglect. Your options for "finishing" the teak are oiling, varnish(or some other finish) or allowing it to go gray. I wouldn't bother with oiling cuz it goes away in just a few weeks. And unless you're committed to having gorgeous teak, forget varnish. It's not really that much more work (maintenance a couple times a year) but some people hate it. If you're one of those, try Cetol (ugly orange tint) or Bristol (expensive but looks like varnish) - low maintenance options. I had a little mildew on my interior & it came off fine with Simple Green. If that doesn't take it off completely there are a number of mildew remover products that seem to work well. A number of people I know are very satisfied with lemon oil. Doesn't have the same buildup as "teak oil" does. Household oil won't *hurt* anything. Have fun with your new baby! LaDonna
You should talk to Island Girl (in the Gelcoat Forum on this site) about their products. I used FSR (Fiberglass Stain Remover) on gelcoat that was mud encrusted/stained & it came out very nice. You can get it at West Marine & is basically just oxalic acid in gel form. I'm sure Island Girl's products are less toxic! Sanding, sanding, sanding is required for your teak. If you're opposed to that much sanding, you could pressure wash the teak (on a low setting) but know that it will cause the grain to raise quite a bit. It'll still be gray but a very light, pleasant gray instead of the ugly blackish gray it can get with neglect. Your options for "finishing" the teak are oiling, varnish(or some other finish) or allowing it to go gray. I wouldn't bother with oiling cuz it goes away in just a few weeks. And unless you're committed to having gorgeous teak, forget varnish. It's not really that much more work (maintenance a couple times a year) but some people hate it. If you're one of those, try Cetol (ugly orange tint) or Bristol (expensive but looks like varnish) - low maintenance options. I had a little mildew on my interior & it came off fine with Simple Green. If that doesn't take it off completely there are a number of mildew remover products that seem to work well. A number of people I know are very satisfied with lemon oil. Doesn't have the same buildup as "teak oil" does. Household oil won't *hurt* anything. Have fun with your new baby! LaDonna
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R.W.Landau
LaDonna has the experience.
LaDonna has had to deal with much of this. Alot of your teak situation is preference. What do you want. Before you start with the clean-up, check for leaks. A "75" might have some leak problems. Leak can cause serious damage if you don't attack them. Check your deck fittings: chainplate, cleats,etc. Rebed anything you may think looks like it leaks. The cores are very sensitive to water and since they are enclosed they rot. Causing spongy deck and cockpits. Check your handrails also. If they need rebedded, do it now! You won't want to if it's in the water. I have seen good results from two part teak conditioner and oil. If you follow mfg suggestions it normally work good. Plan on a touch-up midsummer and before you pull the boat. This will make next spring easier. Mildew, is a tough one. I had mildew problems in my 23 Paceship for three years that were finially removed with TILEX, the bath room cleaner. It has some bleach so figure white spot on the cloths you wear and don't get it no the cushions. Island girl has good products, not from experience but through hearsay. TILEX may take out some of those stains also. BON AMY the old cleanser works good on that stuff also. Just enough abrasive to help polish the old gelcoat also. The galley may have cooking grease stains. Try some sanding and conditioner. If if doesn't pull the stains, sand again and try a linseed oil to even things out. Remember the linseed oil is flamable. My son is going to CIA in Cleveland. Have a good first season with your new boat. may it come quick and last long. r.w.landau
LaDonna has had to deal with much of this. Alot of your teak situation is preference. What do you want. Before you start with the clean-up, check for leaks. A "75" might have some leak problems. Leak can cause serious damage if you don't attack them. Check your deck fittings: chainplate, cleats,etc. Rebed anything you may think looks like it leaks. The cores are very sensitive to water and since they are enclosed they rot. Causing spongy deck and cockpits. Check your handrails also. If they need rebedded, do it now! You won't want to if it's in the water. I have seen good results from two part teak conditioner and oil. If you follow mfg suggestions it normally work good. Plan on a touch-up midsummer and before you pull the boat. This will make next spring easier. Mildew, is a tough one. I had mildew problems in my 23 Paceship for three years that were finially removed with TILEX, the bath room cleaner. It has some bleach so figure white spot on the cloths you wear and don't get it no the cushions. Island girl has good products, not from experience but through hearsay. TILEX may take out some of those stains also. BON AMY the old cleanser works good on that stuff also. Just enough abrasive to help polish the old gelcoat also. The galley may have cooking grease stains. Try some sanding and conditioner. If if doesn't pull the stains, sand again and try a linseed oil to even things out. Remember the linseed oil is flamable. My son is going to CIA in Cleveland. Have a good first season with your new boat. may it come quick and last long. r.w.landau
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Bob
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Rob Rich
Hey Skip
Having survived more than 25 Great Lakes winters, I know how boring they can be (if you don't ski). If you want your teak to look really good, remove it from the boat and take it home. Once home, clean it with two part teak cleaner (available at West Marine) and then sand it. Since you can't go outside, you might as well have fun inside. Get a small sander from Walmart, about $29 bucks. It'll pay itself off, trust me. Once it is sanded, I'd start with the varnish. I've heard it recommended that you cut the first two coats with a lot of thinner, and then use full strength stuff later. About eight coats should do you fine. I just redid my teak, and get compliments from everyone who comes aboard. It was a pain in the ass, but I think it was worth it. I haven't touched it in 6 months, and it looks like it was done yesterday. I wouldn't lose a weekend of sailing over it, but if you can knock it out during the off season, you will appreceiate it! Best Regards, Rob
Having survived more than 25 Great Lakes winters, I know how boring they can be (if you don't ski). If you want your teak to look really good, remove it from the boat and take it home. Once home, clean it with two part teak cleaner (available at West Marine) and then sand it. Since you can't go outside, you might as well have fun inside. Get a small sander from Walmart, about $29 bucks. It'll pay itself off, trust me. Once it is sanded, I'd start with the varnish. I've heard it recommended that you cut the first two coats with a lot of thinner, and then use full strength stuff later. About eight coats should do you fine. I just redid my teak, and get compliments from everyone who comes aboard. It was a pain in the ass, but I think it was worth it. I haven't touched it in 6 months, and it looks like it was done yesterday. I wouldn't lose a weekend of sailing over it, but if you can knock it out during the off season, you will appreceiate it! Best Regards, Rob
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Bob Camarena
Scrubbing Bubbles for Interior
I've found that Scrubbing Bubbles bathroom cleaner is great for interior fiberglass. It comes in an aerosol can and is foamy so it sticks to vertical and overhead surfaces long enough to do its work. It is great on mildew. It also works well in the cockpit but is a little expensive for routine exterior cleaning.
I've found that Scrubbing Bubbles bathroom cleaner is great for interior fiberglass. It comes in an aerosol can and is foamy so it sticks to vertical and overhead surfaces long enough to do its work. It is great on mildew. It also works well in the cockpit but is a little expensive for routine exterior cleaning.
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Tony Z
Brite work
I recomend the teak cleaner products. You just won't believe the crud that will be removed from you wood. The only drawback to these types of cleaners is they leave the wood wet. This means you have to wait untill the wood is thouroughly dry before the next step. I have tried varnish. Excellent appearance results but can chip off if hit or bumped with anything. Once that happens, it's all over. Water will destroy all your work. I have tried Oils: Looks great for about a week then you MUST keep at it with the oil or it's wrecked. I have not yet tried Cetol (or equivelent). But I am goig to this year. I hate the ORANGE tone but one of your responses indicates that a clear is now available. I have seen Cetol results and must admit it looks good enough and stands up better than the other options. Only one other thing Cetol is real expensive, but I guess most things taht work well are. GOOD LUCK
I recomend the teak cleaner products. You just won't believe the crud that will be removed from you wood. The only drawback to these types of cleaners is they leave the wood wet. This means you have to wait untill the wood is thouroughly dry before the next step. I have tried varnish. Excellent appearance results but can chip off if hit or bumped with anything. Once that happens, it's all over. Water will destroy all your work. I have tried Oils: Looks great for about a week then you MUST keep at it with the oil or it's wrecked. I have not yet tried Cetol (or equivelent). But I am goig to this year. I hate the ORANGE tone but one of your responses indicates that a clear is now available. I have seen Cetol results and must admit it looks good enough and stands up better than the other options. Only one other thing Cetol is real expensive, but I guess most things taht work well are. GOOD LUCK
Cetol Lite too.
Cetol has a Lite version as well as the clear coat too. So depending on what you are looking for they have several options. Varnish may look good the day you put it on but 3 months later it can be in very bad shape.
Cetol has a Lite version as well as the clear coat too. So depending on what you are looking for they have several options. Varnish may look good the day you put it on but 3 months later it can be in very bad shape.
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Rick
Cetol? No thanks.
I bought cetol lite and paid $30 for the smallest container. I tried it on a small block of bare teak as a sample -just to see how it would look. Ugh. Not for my boat. (Now I have to find a cetol user to sell the can to.) I ended up using a product called Watco teak oil. If you just use one or two coats it will look beautiful but will only last 4 to 6 weeks. However if you put a third coat on it will gloss like varnish and last longer. I now have about 5 coats and every couple of months I just wipe it down with a sponge and add another coat. No sanding or scrubbing. Just like varnish you have to tend to it before it needs it. If you wait until its needed you have to start all over. A point about varnishing. The reason you want to thin the first couple coats of varnish is so that it soaks into the teak and adhears better to avoid chipping and peeling later. Cetol, varnish or oil all require the same effort for starting out on good clean dry wood. After that Cetol requires the least effort (and in my opinion the least attractive results) but if you are willing do the extra effort for the extra beauty, oil and varnish can be maintained just by reapplying on a regular basis (without sanding) before it starts to deteriorate.
I bought cetol lite and paid $30 for the smallest container. I tried it on a small block of bare teak as a sample -just to see how it would look. Ugh. Not for my boat. (Now I have to find a cetol user to sell the can to.) I ended up using a product called Watco teak oil. If you just use one or two coats it will look beautiful but will only last 4 to 6 weeks. However if you put a third coat on it will gloss like varnish and last longer. I now have about 5 coats and every couple of months I just wipe it down with a sponge and add another coat. No sanding or scrubbing. Just like varnish you have to tend to it before it needs it. If you wait until its needed you have to start all over. A point about varnishing. The reason you want to thin the first couple coats of varnish is so that it soaks into the teak and adhears better to avoid chipping and peeling later. Cetol, varnish or oil all require the same effort for starting out on good clean dry wood. After that Cetol requires the least effort (and in my opinion the least attractive results) but if you are willing do the extra effort for the extra beauty, oil and varnish can be maintained just by reapplying on a regular basis (without sanding) before it starts to deteriorate.
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Rob Rich
I agree with Rick
with the caveat that if you take your work home, it is less torture. I would NEVER use Cetol - it just looks cheap. I would actually let my teak go grey before using the "orange stuff." No joke. Varnish takes a little more time, but if you take it home and do it right.. well, there's just nothing like it. Rob
with the caveat that if you take your work home, it is less torture. I would NEVER use Cetol - it just looks cheap. I would actually let my teak go grey before using the "orange stuff." No joke. Varnish takes a little more time, but if you take it home and do it right.. well, there's just nothing like it. Rob
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Melody Miller
Cetol Rules
Hi Guys: Say whatever you want about Cetol . .It is hands down the best product for finishing bright work. I did my rails a year ago and today they look great. They are not orange. I put the first coat on my companionway hatch boards. They also look great . . not orange. It may be that many people just don't want to take the time to thoroughly clean the wood before application. That is an investment but well worth it. I've never heard anyone say . "Boy, I wish I hadn't put Cetol on my wood." Conversely, I've heard people say that other products don't last more than a few months. Melody
Hi Guys: Say whatever you want about Cetol . .It is hands down the best product for finishing bright work. I did my rails a year ago and today they look great. They are not orange. I put the first coat on my companionway hatch boards. They also look great . . not orange. It may be that many people just don't want to take the time to thoroughly clean the wood before application. That is an investment but well worth it. I've never heard anyone say . "Boy, I wish I hadn't put Cetol on my wood." Conversely, I've heard people say that other products don't last more than a few months. Melody
Melody is correct.
Read some of the reviews in Practical Sailor that outlines some of the products on the market. Cetol/Armada beats the best of them. There are someother products that cost a lot more that are comparable. I also do not find that the color looks objectionable. What I do find objectionable is pealing and flaking varnish which is what you see more of than anything else in the varnish work (except of the day that they just finished putting on their 7 coat). We have cetoled our pin boards and they have last for 3 years without a recoating. but I guess that is why we have options in this world. Wouldn't it be boring if everyone liked the same thing.
Read some of the reviews in Practical Sailor that outlines some of the products on the market. Cetol/Armada beats the best of them. There are someother products that cost a lot more that are comparable. I also do not find that the color looks objectionable. What I do find objectionable is pealing and flaking varnish which is what you see more of than anything else in the varnish work (except of the day that they just finished putting on their 7 coat). We have cetoled our pin boards and they have last for 3 years without a recoating. but I guess that is why we have options in this world. Wouldn't it be boring if everyone liked the same thing.
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Pat Spino
Cetol
Skip Cetol, newly applied to properly prepared teak, looks great. What I find objectional is the way it looks after repeated applications. I think that the pigment builds up giving the wood a more and more painted look as successive coats are applied. I think the solution to such a problem is to apply cetol clear coat as the overcoat, providing the original cetol is in satisfactory condition. The real trick, as with any teak dressing, is to catch it before it needs it. I do not like Cetol applied to interior teak. Varnish is much preferred for interior applications. By the way, for my money, avoid Armada. I found that Armada, although requiring the same prep and care as Cetol, does not look as good and has an even worse build up appearance. PAT
Skip Cetol, newly applied to properly prepared teak, looks great. What I find objectional is the way it looks after repeated applications. I think that the pigment builds up giving the wood a more and more painted look as successive coats are applied. I think the solution to such a problem is to apply cetol clear coat as the overcoat, providing the original cetol is in satisfactory condition. The real trick, as with any teak dressing, is to catch it before it needs it. I do not like Cetol applied to interior teak. Varnish is much preferred for interior applications. By the way, for my money, avoid Armada. I found that Armada, although requiring the same prep and care as Cetol, does not look as good and has an even worse build up appearance. PAT
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
How to avoid Cetol buildup
I've used Cetol for nearly 10 years, on two boats...wouldn't use anything else. Before re-applying, I "sand" it with fine bronze wool (NEVER sandpaper!). The wood is still sealed, but this takes off the top coat, removing ground-in dirt, body oils left behind by sweaty hands (grab rails), scratches and any UV degradation. Then I apply TWO new coats. Without the build-up of multiple coats, my teak always has that "first year" look, with only a little more effort than it takes to just slap another coat on over whatever dirt and degradation has occurred to the previous applications. I've also found that a VERY light "sanding"--more of a buffing, actually--with very fine bronze wood between coats, whether it's the first application or later ones, to remove any bubbles or places where it might have pooled produces a much smoother finish...a glow that's almost like hand-rubbed fine furniture.
I've used Cetol for nearly 10 years, on two boats...wouldn't use anything else. Before re-applying, I "sand" it with fine bronze wool (NEVER sandpaper!). The wood is still sealed, but this takes off the top coat, removing ground-in dirt, body oils left behind by sweaty hands (grab rails), scratches and any UV degradation. Then I apply TWO new coats. Without the build-up of multiple coats, my teak always has that "first year" look, with only a little more effort than it takes to just slap another coat on over whatever dirt and degradation has occurred to the previous applications. I've also found that a VERY light "sanding"--more of a buffing, actually--with very fine bronze wood between coats, whether it's the first application or later ones, to remove any bubbles or places where it might have pooled produces a much smoother finish...a glow that's almost like hand-rubbed fine furniture.
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Thomas Ehmke
Amen, Melody
Skip, I want to add my whole-hearted support to what Melody says about Cetol and the satisfaction it gives to its users. Several years ago I got tired of cleaning and oiling teak and bought Cetol on the advice of a boating friend and have never looked back. I've had nothing but compliments on the bright work (admittedly only a small amount- toe rails, grab rails, companionway hatches, and slides) and spend minimal time touching up the dents and worn spots every spring. Regarding the orange color, my thought is that any finish will alter the color of the wood beneath sooner or later. What's the difference if Cetol has a slight orange tint? Varnish will darken, yellow or otherwise discolor the wood it seals with time.Quite frankly I prefer sailing to dockside maintenance and would never spend the time to place 6,7,or 8 coats of varnish on brightwork that will require sanding and a repeat performance, sometimes within months. Read the Practical Sailor "Round the World Adventure" with Nick Nicholson. It seems that he is varnishing something every time he sails into a port. For my time and money, it just aint worth it.
Skip, I want to add my whole-hearted support to what Melody says about Cetol and the satisfaction it gives to its users. Several years ago I got tired of cleaning and oiling teak and bought Cetol on the advice of a boating friend and have never looked back. I've had nothing but compliments on the bright work (admittedly only a small amount- toe rails, grab rails, companionway hatches, and slides) and spend minimal time touching up the dents and worn spots every spring. Regarding the orange color, my thought is that any finish will alter the color of the wood beneath sooner or later. What's the difference if Cetol has a slight orange tint? Varnish will darken, yellow or otherwise discolor the wood it seals with time.Quite frankly I prefer sailing to dockside maintenance and would never spend the time to place 6,7,or 8 coats of varnish on brightwork that will require sanding and a repeat performance, sometimes within months. Read the Practical Sailor "Round the World Adventure" with Nick Nicholson. It seems that he is varnishing something every time he sails into a port. For my time and money, it just aint worth it.
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Rob Rich
Time and Love
Simply put folks, Cetol does not look as good as varnish... Only rationalizations will convince you otherwise. Let's be honest - if you take teak, clean it by the two step process and then sand it... then varnish looks better than Cetol. Anyone who says different has not put the two products side by side. Varnish allows the natural glow of the wood to surface from within without any pigment interference. I would not advocate spending time in port working on brightwork - I would naturally rather be sailing. But I would advocate removing the wood and taking it home. 8 coats applied over four days is pretty easy work. Re-install the wood on Friday night, seal the deck junction, and you are set for the weekend. My brightwork has lasted 8 months in Texas sun and looks as good as the day it was put on the boat. If I have to re-apply every two years, it is still worth it. Much Love, The Varnish Freak
Simply put folks, Cetol does not look as good as varnish... Only rationalizations will convince you otherwise. Let's be honest - if you take teak, clean it by the two step process and then sand it... then varnish looks better than Cetol. Anyone who says different has not put the two products side by side. Varnish allows the natural glow of the wood to surface from within without any pigment interference. I would not advocate spending time in port working on brightwork - I would naturally rather be sailing. But I would advocate removing the wood and taking it home. 8 coats applied over four days is pretty easy work. Re-install the wood on Friday night, seal the deck junction, and you are set for the weekend. My brightwork has lasted 8 months in Texas sun and looks as good as the day it was put on the boat. If I have to re-apply every two years, it is still worth it. Much Love, The Varnish Freak
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LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners
I'm definitely a varnish snob
So I have to agree 1000% with you Bob. Cetol takes just as much prep work as varnish and if you keep the varnish touched up twice a year... TWICE per YEAR ... they you shouldn't have any problems, even in southern locales. Nothing beats the gleam of teak - and just for the record, I don't give up one minute of sailing time to work on my boat. I'd much rather work on the boat than mow a lawn! LaDonna
So I have to agree 1000% with you Bob. Cetol takes just as much prep work as varnish and if you keep the varnish touched up twice a year... TWICE per YEAR ... they you shouldn't have any problems, even in southern locales. Nothing beats the gleam of teak - and just for the record, I don't give up one minute of sailing time to work on my boat. I'd much rather work on the boat than mow a lawn! LaDonna
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