Used Boat Buying Help

[bbqdude]

I am new to the forum and new to sailing. I have been taking sailing lessons all summer long through Hoofers at the University of Wisconsin. I have been looking at small boats that I could trailer to other local lakes and recently found a Precision 15 on Craigslist. I have a few questions about this boat. First does anyone have any experience with this boat. I also would like to know what I should be looking for and what questions I should ask about this boat when looking to buy. I have included a link for the listing below.

http://madison.craigslist.org/boa/1962849631.html

 

[Mike1956]

If you're going to daysail on smaller lakes it's not a bad choice. I've seen used sunfishes for more money. Precision is a respected manufacturer that makes good sailboats. I noted that the sails were repaired, so find out what type of damage, and who repaired them, ie, a reputable loft. the ad doesn't mention an outboard, and depending upon where you sail, it may not be necessary. A good rule of thumb to use is to do your upwind sailing early, so you can run downwind on your return to the dock. I guarantee that once you learn to sail a smaller boat, you'll have no trouble sailing a larger sailboat, because it gets easier.

 

[jimmyb]

I took a 3 day basic keel boat course early May this year. Had a great time and knew almost imediately I was going to become a sailor. Im a bid confident/cocky that way. Anyway I had done a bunch of homework on trailer sailing boats for the local smaller lakes and had my heart set on a Precision 18. I went through a bit of indecision and worried about the boat being more hassle to set up than a smaller boat. I ended up with a Precision 15 that needed a little work.

I had her up and running by the first of June and have been having a blast since then. The 15 is a wide beam dingy. Havent seen one with as big a cockpit for the size either. The forward stowage is very useful to keep the deck clear, although I wish all Precisions came with an anchor locker. Still havent figured out a good place to have one for quick deployment in an emergency. The boat is definietly lively. I think its pretty fast for what it was designed for as well. It responds instantly and is easily. Its boom is carried on the mast above the heads of most average sized people which is a BIG plus. Not ducking all the time while tacking and jibing. It is a boat that you will find yourself needing a good amount of input most of the time. You will sail with the main sheet in your hand and hike out a bit when pushing her in the stiffer wind. I dont single hand because the wife loves it as much as I do. She crews the boat and loves to hike out while i man the helm and push the boat as much as we can. Knock on a big piece of wood we have not been knocked down in some pretty good wind dipping the comings in the water. However if your going to sail the boat aggresively you cant be asleep at the helm and your crew should know how to balance the boat. Mine is great at it.

If you choose to sail in lighter wind only the boat is fantastic for that as well. We scoot along much faster than most on the lakes when the wind is down. I believe the sail area is pretty big for the boat. It is also more relaxing at the helm. The boat is perfect size for 2. We havent had reason to carry anyone else at this point. You can anchor for lunch or a swim. You can also walk about the boat from stem to stern and its very stable . I promise i dont work for Precision boat works but we have had many nice compliments on the boats size, layout and performance on the lakes from other small boat sailers, and my boat is really not anything out of the ordinary.

We have a 2 hp honda 4 stroke and it is a blessing for pointing to wind when it is breezy so as to raise the main and when we want to get around sails down. Its so light and does not interfere under sail when in the cocked up position.

The harken hardware, IMHO is the best. I picked up a new set of running riging as a kit from Precision. They are very reasonably priced on all the spare parts I bought. With all new lines and good hardware and like new standing rigging It feels and sails just as good as a newer model selling for MUCH more. You can get the boat rigged and running in no time and she floats off in 6" of water. Big plus.

As for what to look for, make sure the hull is good and solid. Walk on the forward deck and feel for any soft areas. See if the PO kept the hardware tightend and clean such as chainplates and stem fitting. Make sure other hardware that is not bolted thru is not stripped out like mainsheet padeyes on the CB trunk and tabernacle. Look for bad kinks in the shrouds/forestay, loose rivets on the spars, badly sun damaged sheeves. (they deteriorate into dust). You can fix most anything but be honest about the money you are willng to put into it. You may look for another boat or you may have a real steal there. BIG expense is your sails. No work involved just get on the phone and order but if you need a new set, and besides the spars that hold them they are the most important part of your rig, you are looking at some big dollars. Make sure the rudder if wood is not rotted or cracked as well as the tiller. Also look at the CB. It may need grinding and epoxy filling as well as a fiberglass rudder from being dragged. The last thing I will mention is check to see if the forward hatch in good shape. I had the old style and replaced it with a new one. The old style has been changed, it was terrible. The good thing is that the new one is slightly larger and you can recut the hole and mount a new one and you cant tell the difference.

It all boils down to how much you have and are willing to spend, how much work you are willing to do and finally will you be sailing in the good weather or working on the boat. Armchair sailing sucks big time.

I took a good amount of time here because a good many people took a good amount of time with me and it helped a great deal. I wish you good luck and will be looking forward to you letting us all know how you make out.

God Bless, jimmyb

 

[jimmyb]

Oops. just a few more things. Have the owner completely set up the boat before you buy. Easier to see if you are missing anything. Check the trailer out as well. It is as you know a big part of trailer sailing. A wheel type jack on the front makes for easy manuvaring in the garage or driveway. Bearing buddies at 20 bucks are cheap insurance. Good tires and a spare are a must. Jack up the sides and check for crunchy wheel bearings and pull of buddy caps or bearing caps and check for water or corrosion.

jimmyb

 

[bbqdude]

Thanks Jimmy B! The info you provided helps greatly. I have been sailing a small dinghy through the Hoofers Club (Tech A 12 ft boat) and it is very tippy. I have been looking for something small enough I could tow with a car and get out with my wife that is less tippy. This seems to be a good choice.

 

[jimmyb]

dude,
Another boat in the precision line is the 165. They are fewer and pricier but still lightweight and rigged almost the same as the 15 but the draft is 21". In fact the wife and I are considering moving up to something like that or a Precison 18 but we dont want to sacrifice the convenience of going sailing at the drop of a hat and thats what the small boats offer at a small price. Even so I would not have traded my experience with the smaller boat for anything. Like Mike said above, it has taugh me many things faster than a big boat would have.

jimmyb

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Well, lots of good things were said about the Precision 15 above and it is all true. They are great little boats. The beam contributes to stability (some of the competition have hiking straps which suggest that they are more "tippy" and it is true). The P-15 has been used for sailing schools with great success. Easy to sail, rig, launch and retrieve (even by a very small car) and there is a lot of cockpit space and even a spot for a cooler (not included). They are great boats and I have known others who have owned and sailed them and they all say the same good things.

 

[bbqdude]

I have sent an email with questions and I am waiting on a reply.

 

[esterhazyinoz]

At the asking price, if the hull & tralier are in good shape, then I can't see how you could go wrong. I was very attracted to the P15 (but ultimately purchased a new Hunter 15) for all the reasons that jimmyb has pointed out. Even if you needed new sails (maybe $300-$500???), hardware and standing rigging, you'd have a great boat for lake sailing.
Good luck

 

[Winkfish]

Make sure your wife is on board with your choice of boat!!

 

[bbqdude]

So there has been a new update in this. I was able to contact the owner and I can look at it tomorrow night (Thursday) with another person who is interested. In the mean another boat came up on Craigslist that intersts me. There is a 1970 16' Rebel MarkII for $695. This includes Main, Jib, and Spinaker. It also includes the trailer. The owner said this boat has been stored indoors for some time. I have done some readin up on this boat and it seems there is quite a loyal folowing and seems to be a good boat. Any input? Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[jimmyb]

Cant speak to this one but from what I saw on a brochure online it has 166 sq ft of sail. That seems huge, looks huge too. It must fly if it is efficiently used.

Good luck either way, jimmyb

 

[kenn]

Trailer-sailing rocks!

...we dont want to sacrifice the convenience of going sailing at the drop of a hat and thats what the small boats offer at a small price.

This is definitely the forte of trailerable boats. We've owned our boat for 4 years, and we still enjoy our sailing - a combination of club-based day-sailing close to home on L. Ontario, and at least one 3+ -day 'cruise' per season at a new location.

We went for something a bit larger than 15', in order to get a boat that both of us could comfortably sleep on, to add the cruising capability. It's still fairly lively to sail, and our purchase price plus improvements still totaled less than $5000, including trailer and outboard.

 

[John Nantz]

Wife on board?

I'd like to chime in with what Winkfish suggested earlier - make sure your wife is on board.

If this is something you're going to like doing, and it sounds like it is, and you have a significant other, then it would be good to really discuss the hope and dreams you each have. How do you envision the future with a boat? Do you see yourself in club races? Or does she see the two of you on a sandy beach somewhere with a picknick lunch? Will she be the one hiking out to windward taking all the wind and spray?

Looking at the picture of the ad I see a flush deck boat and basically I'd put this in a sport category. For the same length, well, maybe a tad more, the O'Day 16 has a cuddy which provides some protection. My wife spent some time ducked behind the cuddy on our boat (Falcon 16) when it was cold (late fall, early spring, or just plain high wind-chill factor).

There will probably be some days that are forecasted to be nice but turn sour and you sure don't want your S.O. turning sour on this dream.

The Precision 15 with it's flush deck and the O'Day 16 with it's cuddy are two totally styles of boat. The O'Day would be a nice "family" type boat that could be used for short "cruises". Unfortunately, the O'Day is about a 45 year old design and there aren't many small cuddy-type boats in the newer designs.

As for price, just look at a new boat and the price and any of these older ones will look like a bargain - which they are. Sure, they come with some dings and scratches but if you bought a new one you're sure to put some of those on yourself.

Trailer: Tires take a beating from UV so if you wind up putting on new tires a suggestion would be to have some tire covers for UV protection.

Lake sailing: depending on the topography, can have fluky winds. I've only capsized once and it was on a small lake. Lost the rudder doing it, too. This was the only time I didn't have the safety tie on.

Sails: Might be "blown-out" which will cause more heeling in gusts. New and flatter sails will help with sailing ease because the boat won't feel like it's getting knocked down every time a small gust comes along.

Just a few additional thoughts.....

 

[Sterling Levie]

I've been sailing a Precision 23 for years in lakes and bays, and love it. I think Precision designs are excellent, and that Precision Boat Works provides excellent support.

Having said that, I'm selling my Precision 23 and have made a web site describing its features and providing lots of photos. That might be informative for you, and--who knows--maybe you'll want to consider a "23." The site is at http://tinyurl.com/Precision23.