What are the correct times and ways to use your vang. I am more interested in the windward use of this adjustment. Thanks and looking forward to all replys Dale
Use of Boom Vang
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I've never used a boom vang to windward.
Even dinghy racing. Only used it when sailing off the wind to adjust sail shape. A boom vang creates downward pressure on the boom which your mainsheet does for you when going to windward.
Even dinghy racing. Only used it when sailing off the wind to adjust sail shape. A boom vang creates downward pressure on the boom which your mainsheet does for you when going to windward.
Sheet angles
When the boom is under the main sheet it works correctly by pulling down on the boom. When it is out over the water, it cannot pull down on the boom. The boom vang can though. It is a down wind sail adjustment.
When the boom is under the main sheet it works correctly by pulling down on the boom. When it is out over the water, it cannot pull down on the boom. The boom vang can though. It is a down wind sail adjustment.
Boom Vang
Let's have some more forum listers jump in on this one. Anyone who has my Sail Trim Users Guide, which tells you WHY you are making a sail trim adjustment, can answer this question. I could answer it but every time I answer a question the discussion stops. I don't know everything. I'm just a common seaman. Maybe I can learn a new angle from this discussions. Every have a conversation with someone about anything and they say something that trips your mind on another subject which has nothing to do with the subject you were discussing?
Let's have some more forum listers jump in on this one. Anyone who has my Sail Trim Users Guide, which tells you WHY you are making a sail trim adjustment, can answer this question. I could answer it but every time I answer a question the discussion stops. I don't know everything. I'm just a common seaman. Maybe I can learn a new angle from this discussions. Every have a conversation with someone about anything and they say something that trips your mind on another subject which has nothing to do with the subject you were discussing?
Harden the vang in heavy wind
I use the vang both for safety, because I do not have to worry about the boom being lifted up by the wind and possibly hanging up on the backstay, and also as a sail adjustment tool. As the wind picks up, I harden the vang, and also tighten the outhaul. That make the mainsail flatter and reduces lift somewhat. Don Guillette, please grade me on this.
I use the vang both for safety, because I do not have to worry about the boom being lifted up by the wind and possibly hanging up on the backstay, and also as a sail adjustment tool. As the wind picks up, I harden the vang, and also tighten the outhaul. That make the mainsail flatter and reduces lift somewhat. Don Guillette, please grade me on this.
Hunter 29.5
this boat does not have a traveler the main sheet is attached to the binnacle so the vang gets lots of use in this case as it is the only way to pull the boom down without centering the main.
this boat does not have a traveler the main sheet is attached to the binnacle so the vang gets lots of use in this case as it is the only way to pull the boom down without centering the main.
Vang use upwind can be very useful.......
when sailing dingys. It is called vang sheeting and is used to induce mast bend to depower the sail and maintain twist so that the mainsheet can be used to adjust the angle of attack. It is done on boats like lasers all the time.
when sailing dingys. It is called vang sheeting and is used to induce mast bend to depower the sail and maintain twist so that the mainsheet can be used to adjust the angle of attack. It is done on boats like lasers all the time.
Vang control
is used for three purposes: It holds the boom up appx 10-15 degrees when unloaded by the mainsheet and in absence of a topping lift. Upwind the vang will control the twist or flatness of the upper third of the mainsail. More vang = less twist = flatter sail Reaching the vang is used to pull/keep the boom down for a optium reaching sail shape. my 2 cents BobD Boston
is used for three purposes: It holds the boom up appx 10-15 degrees when unloaded by the mainsheet and in absence of a topping lift. Upwind the vang will control the twist or flatness of the upper third of the mainsail. More vang = less twist = flatter sail Reaching the vang is used to pull/keep the boom down for a optium reaching sail shape. my 2 cents BobD Boston
Kicker and vang combo
Boom vang as trim control is fine in theory. My Catalina 27 had a boomkicker rigid vang (installed upside down) on it when I bought it. I remounted it and added a 4:1 vang. I've found that it takes an enormous amount of force to tighten the vang even a little bit, with barely noticable movement of the boom (downwards). It works to keep the boom from jumping off the top of the kicker, and it works as a preventer if I take it to the rail, but I've had little success using it to flatten the mainsail. If I had to guess, I'd say that the rods on the kicker were probably cut too long. Any thoughts?
Boom vang as trim control is fine in theory. My Catalina 27 had a boomkicker rigid vang (installed upside down) on it when I bought it. I remounted it and added a 4:1 vang. I've found that it takes an enormous amount of force to tighten the vang even a little bit, with barely noticable movement of the boom (downwards). It works to keep the boom from jumping off the top of the kicker, and it works as a preventer if I take it to the rail, but I've had little success using it to flatten the mainsail. If I had to guess, I'd say that the rods on the kicker were probably cut too long. Any thoughts?
Boom Vang
Mates: Here's the way I like to answer sail trim questions. It may not be the best way but it works best for me. It would be better if I was standing on the dock with you or on your boat because I could use my hands and so on. The first thing I tell the sailor is WHAT all the sail trim controls for the main and jib are adjusting and they are draft depth (belly), draft position, twist and angle of attack. I've said this a million times on this forum but that is ALL the sail trim controls adjust. I then ask them if they understand those terms. Most nod their head or grunt. I know most mates don't understand the terms completely but I take them at their word and move on. The problem is if a sailor does not completely understand those terms sail trim will never make any sense. With every SAIL TRIM CHART I sell I include a QUICK REFERENCE sheet which outline all the sail trim controls for the main and jib and explains what they adjust and what happens when you push or pull them - takes all the guess work out of sail trim. The next thing I discuss is the sail trim control they are questioning. In this case it is the boom vang. The boom vang is used primarily to adjust TWIST (along with the mainsheet) and it also adjusts DRAFT POSITION (along with the cunningham, mainsheet, outhaul and mast bend). Next, I explain is what happens when you push or pull the boom vang. By increasing pressure you reduce TWIST and move the DRAFT POSITION forward. Reduce pressure and the opposite happens to both elements. That answers their question and the amount of time I spent to explain it is about the amount of time it took you to read this message. If they are not bored by this point I go on to mention the advantages of a rigid vang over a soft vang. A soft vang and the mainsheet lose their mechanical advantage the farther the boom moves out board. A rigid vang such as the one made by Garhauer does NOT lose any mechanical advantage. At this point, if they want to know more about the vang I explian the settings that should be used for each point of sail and wind condition. What do you mates think of my explanation? Could I make it clearer or am I confusing folks. I mean I know what I'm saying when I'm talking to myself but am I communicating the message?
Mates: Here's the way I like to answer sail trim questions. It may not be the best way but it works best for me. It would be better if I was standing on the dock with you or on your boat because I could use my hands and so on. The first thing I tell the sailor is WHAT all the sail trim controls for the main and jib are adjusting and they are draft depth (belly), draft position, twist and angle of attack. I've said this a million times on this forum but that is ALL the sail trim controls adjust. I then ask them if they understand those terms. Most nod their head or grunt. I know most mates don't understand the terms completely but I take them at their word and move on. The problem is if a sailor does not completely understand those terms sail trim will never make any sense. With every SAIL TRIM CHART I sell I include a QUICK REFERENCE sheet which outline all the sail trim controls for the main and jib and explains what they adjust and what happens when you push or pull them - takes all the guess work out of sail trim. The next thing I discuss is the sail trim control they are questioning. In this case it is the boom vang. The boom vang is used primarily to adjust TWIST (along with the mainsheet) and it also adjusts DRAFT POSITION (along with the cunningham, mainsheet, outhaul and mast bend). Next, I explain is what happens when you push or pull the boom vang. By increasing pressure you reduce TWIST and move the DRAFT POSITION forward. Reduce pressure and the opposite happens to both elements. That answers their question and the amount of time I spent to explain it is about the amount of time it took you to read this message. If they are not bored by this point I go on to mention the advantages of a rigid vang over a soft vang. A soft vang and the mainsheet lose their mechanical advantage the farther the boom moves out board. A rigid vang such as the one made by Garhauer does NOT lose any mechanical advantage. At this point, if they want to know more about the vang I explian the settings that should be used for each point of sail and wind condition. What do you mates think of my explanation? Could I make it clearer or am I confusing folks. I mean I know what I'm saying when I'm talking to myself but am I communicating the message?
Catalina 27 Twist Control
Phil, I agree with you. I am testing a C27 and it seems almost imposible to adjust the vang. I was seeing too much twist on the main sail and couldn't put more tension on the leech. Don Guillete is teaching me what I learnt on sailing I for dinghies, and seems to be trying to sell a book that probably is a copy of other 100 sailing manuals. But in the case of the C27, there was another cable working in the opossite direction of the vang. This cable was holding the aft end of the boom to the head of the mast. And I think that was the reason why I couldn't tighten the vang. That cable was tense and preventing the boom to going down. I would apreciate if someone can explain what that cable is for, what it is called and how to reduce twist on the C27 (please, be boat-specific and don't tell me the sailing I version). Thank you all
Phil, I agree with you. I am testing a C27 and it seems almost imposible to adjust the vang. I was seeing too much twist on the main sail and couldn't put more tension on the leech. Don Guillete is teaching me what I learnt on sailing I for dinghies, and seems to be trying to sell a book that probably is a copy of other 100 sailing manuals. But in the case of the C27, there was another cable working in the opossite direction of the vang. This cable was holding the aft end of the boom to the head of the mast. And I think that was the reason why I couldn't tighten the vang. That cable was tense and preventing the boom to going down. I would apreciate if someone can explain what that cable is for, what it is called and how to reduce twist on the C27 (please, be boat-specific and don't tell me the sailing I version). Thank you all
Topping Lift
I think I found the answer for my basic question on another forum. I have been sailing dinghies for a while but only recently on keel-boats, so here you have other devices such as the topping lift that prevents the boom from falling all the way when you lower the main. I guess next time I will losen the lift first so I can effectively use the boom vang.
I think I found the answer for my basic question on another forum. I have been sailing dinghies for a while but only recently on keel-boats, so here you have other devices such as the topping lift that prevents the boom from falling all the way when you lower the main. I guess next time I will losen the lift first so I can effectively use the boom vang.
Kicker
Phil's mention of the boomkicker. I would say that either the rods were of the wrong dimension (too short or too fat)for the boat or it was not located correctly with respect to the mast and boom fittings. Mine was ordered for our boat and it came with only one set of rods. Aside from the position relative to the amount of boom rise, I'd think that if the angles aren't correct, then it may take more force to bend the rods. OF course one could use a topping lift also but I thought that the kicker reduced the lines up there and was more easily adjustable. The vang/kicker combo can work as a boomkicker upper end limiter so that you can actively place a certain amount of twist into the sail and also adjust the draft. I would think that without using a vang on a broad reach (for example) on a gusty day, the sail may increase it's own twist during the puffs and with the vang, this would be less so. Assuming of course that the main isn't sheated in hard and the boom is out beyond the traveler. One other book that I read suggested that the vang if tightened also acts to tighten the rig's forestay tension. I'd think that this would be probably more so if the main's boom is more centered.
Phil's mention of the boomkicker. I would say that either the rods were of the wrong dimension (too short or too fat)for the boat or it was not located correctly with respect to the mast and boom fittings. Mine was ordered for our boat and it came with only one set of rods. Aside from the position relative to the amount of boom rise, I'd think that if the angles aren't correct, then it may take more force to bend the rods. OF course one could use a topping lift also but I thought that the kicker reduced the lines up there and was more easily adjustable. The vang/kicker combo can work as a boomkicker upper end limiter so that you can actively place a certain amount of twist into the sail and also adjust the draft. I would think that without using a vang on a broad reach (for example) on a gusty day, the sail may increase it's own twist during the puffs and with the vang, this would be less so. Assuming of course that the main isn't sheated in hard and the boom is out beyond the traveler. One other book that I read suggested that the vang if tightened also acts to tighten the rig's forestay tension. I'd think that this would be probably more so if the main's boom is more centered.
Sailing1 For Dinghies
Adriano: I surprised that, while taking sailing 1 for dinghies, you did not learn what a topping lift is and what it is used for. It is a very basic sail trim question and one that could be and would be answered by any frequent high beginner listers on this forum. The main purpose of the topping lift is to hold the boom in place, off the deck, when the main sail is flaked. It is not a sail trim control but it does have a function in certain wind conditions and points of sail. Do you know what that function is? Check back on your "sailing 1 for dinghies" class notes and share with us what you find.
Adriano: I surprised that, while taking sailing 1 for dinghies, you did not learn what a topping lift is and what it is used for. It is a very basic sail trim question and one that could be and would be answered by any frequent high beginner listers on this forum. The main purpose of the topping lift is to hold the boom in place, off the deck, when the main sail is flaked. It is not a sail trim control but it does have a function in certain wind conditions and points of sail. Do you know what that function is? Check back on your "sailing 1 for dinghies" class notes and share with us what you find.
Preventer
It was mentioned briefly in a previous post, but I think it needs more attention: Another use of the vang is as a preventer when running downwind. This is a major safety device to prevent an accidental jibe and is much easier to implement than securing a line from the end of the boom to a bow cleat. It also avoids the need to go to the foredeck when runing in chop. Just remove the snap shackle from the base of the mast and attach to the base of a stanchion and trim. Quick, easy and SAFE.
It was mentioned briefly in a previous post, but I think it needs more attention: Another use of the vang is as a preventer when running downwind. This is a major safety device to prevent an accidental jibe and is much easier to implement than securing a line from the end of the boom to a bow cleat. It also avoids the need to go to the foredeck when runing in chop. Just remove the snap shackle from the base of the mast and attach to the base of a stanchion and trim. Quick, easy and SAFE.
Doug, Using a vang as a preventer
depends on the location and size of the boom. My boom is only 2 feet above the deck and is 14 feet long. My beam is only 9 feet. That won't give me much purchase for controlling the boom. Yes. I have a low aspect rig.
depends on the location and size of the boom. My boom is only 2 feet above the deck and is 14 feet long. My beam is only 9 feet. That won't give me much purchase for controlling the boom. Yes. I have a low aspect rig.
Preventer
Doug: Excellent suggestion on the use of a preventer when sailing downwind. I'll never forget this situation which occured in a Redondo Beach to Long Beach race a few years back. On the downwind leg, which is mostly what this race is, I was standing on the cockpit seat watching the goings on at the foredeck and also noticed that the skippers girl friend, who was driving, was starting to "sail by the lee". I gently moved the tiller with my foot and told her to watch the situation. For some unknown reason I then took a step backwards. The next thing I saw was the big, brown butt end of the boom flash by my eyes. I would have never known what hit me had I not stepped back. Another big mistake I had made was not wearing a inflatable life jacket. As soon as I got off the boat I went to West Marine and bought one. I don't care what the weather conditions are, the first thing I do when I board the boat is put on that jacket. Back to the question of preventer -here's the problem when you disconnect the soft vang and use it as a preventer. The vang is the only thing stopping the boom from rising while sailing downwind and making a mess of the sail shape. My suggestion is to install a Garhauer Rigid vang, which works twice as well as the soft vang. Then use the soft vang as a Cunningham. Rig up another system as a preventer. I've seen some mates use a bungee cord as a preventer. I know a skipper who almost lost an eye when the bungee cord snapped. Under no circumstance should anyone use a bungee cord as a preventer.
Doug: Excellent suggestion on the use of a preventer when sailing downwind. I'll never forget this situation which occured in a Redondo Beach to Long Beach race a few years back. On the downwind leg, which is mostly what this race is, I was standing on the cockpit seat watching the goings on at the foredeck and also noticed that the skippers girl friend, who was driving, was starting to "sail by the lee". I gently moved the tiller with my foot and told her to watch the situation. For some unknown reason I then took a step backwards. The next thing I saw was the big, brown butt end of the boom flash by my eyes. I would have never known what hit me had I not stepped back. Another big mistake I had made was not wearing a inflatable life jacket. As soon as I got off the boat I went to West Marine and bought one. I don't care what the weather conditions are, the first thing I do when I board the boat is put on that jacket. Back to the question of preventer -here's the problem when you disconnect the soft vang and use it as a preventer. The vang is the only thing stopping the boom from rising while sailing downwind and making a mess of the sail shape. My suggestion is to install a Garhauer Rigid vang, which works twice as well as the soft vang. Then use the soft vang as a Cunningham. Rig up another system as a preventer. I've seen some mates use a bungee cord as a preventer. I know a skipper who almost lost an eye when the bungee cord snapped. Under no circumstance should anyone use a bungee cord as a preventer.
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