USCG documentation or State registration

K

k_setchfield

.
Feb 19, 2010
80
Hi all,

I'm reviewing the requirements for either registering my soon to be acquired vega in New York or documenting it with the US Coast Guard.

The Coast Guard documentation FAQ specifically states that vessels under 5 tons can not be documented.

Do any of you have any pearls of wisdom to add about that? I mean do I just submit the paperwork anyway and the USCG will give me the documentation, even though the vega is less than 5 tons?

We plan to sail internationally, so it seems that documentation is indicated over state registration.

New york specifically requires registration if the vessel is in the state for more than "90 contiguous days." Since we'll be sailing between Canada, Vermont, and New york all summer and at no point will the boat be in NY for more than 90 contiguous days, I don't see a compelling reason to register in NY and therefore pay NY sales tax. In the fall we'll be leaving the country via the ICW which also makes me think that USCG documentation is the way to go over NY registration.

But, if I can't document through the USCG because the vega is so light, then maybe this whole discussion is just superfluous.

What should I do?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Kristopher
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
You can document a Vega, it's easy. See A Vessel of the United StatesNicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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please delete it and contact us.

From: k_setchfield
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 8:15 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] USCG documentation or State registration
Hi all,

I'm reviewing the requirements for either registering my soon to be acquired vega in New York or documenting it with the US Coast Guard.

The Coast Guard documentation FAQ specifically states that vessels under 5 tons can not be documented.

Do any of you have any pearls of wisdom to add about that? I mean do I just submit the paperwork anyway and the USCG will give me the documentation, even though the vega is less than 5 tons?

We plan to sail internationally, so it seems that documentation is indicated over state registration.

New york specifically requires registration if the vessel is in the state for more than "90 contiguous days." Since we'll be sailing between Canada, Vermont, and New york all summer and at no point will the boat be in NY for more than 90 contiguous days, I don't see a compelling reason to register in NY and therefore pay NY sales tax. In the fall we'll be leaving the country via the ICW which also makes me think that USCG documentation is the way to go over NY registration.

But, if I can't document through the USCG because the vega is so light, then maybe this whole discussion is just superfluous.

What should I do?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Kristopher
 
S

SVFlyAway

.
Oct 31, 2019
303
My Vega is documented as are many others. The 5 tons (tonnes) doesn't mean
the weight of the vessel but really means the volume the vessel can carry as
if was a revenue issue. There is a formula you go thorough to arrive at the
weight and the Vega will qualify. As I mentioned, documentation was
originally planned for small merchant schooners carrying freight to and from
the states from foreign ports. US vessels were allowed to register to make
it easier for their entry back into the US. Thus the yacht ensign to
identify these vessels (the yacht ensign should only be flown within US
waters, out of the country fly the flag).

If you are sailing internationally, a documented vessel if a good idea. Some
countries don't recognize state registrations -- of better put, it is less
of a hassle at times to have federal registration when checking in than
state registration.

Chris
 
D

dougpol1

.
Feb 13, 2010
528
I am sure that Vega is less than 5 tons. But according to the
documentation services approved method of measuring the boat she shows
up as over 5 tons. So legally she is over 5 tons and that is all that
counts. I would say do as everyone else does and fill out the paperwork
she will be 5 tons. I'm sure that if you don't know, someone on this
list has the measurements to use. I don't have my documentation here or
I would give you the numbers. Doug
k_setchfield wrote:
 
V

vega1860

.
Apr 28, 2000
691
The net tonnage for USCG documentation is not the weight of the boat,
nor the displacement but rather the capacity of the "Hold". Using
the USCG formula, a Vega is five net tons. Many Vegas are documented.

"Fair Winds"

Chuck Rose
SV Lealea, V1860
USCG No. 1167966
 
T

tiempo2010

.
Sep 24, 2008
346
Tonnage measurement for documentation has nothing to do with weight but with
cubic measured area. The Vega can be documented.
 
D

dougpol1

.
Feb 13, 2010
528
It is my understanding that originally tons was spelled tuns and a tun
was a hundred cubic feet of space in the hold of the ship. I think the
word dunage came from tuns. Dunage was the timbers used to block or
frame the freight in place. I was raised in Baltimore Maryland , a large
shipping port, and my father built our home of scrap lumber during the
depression. Most of the wood was donage. A great deal of that was teak
as teak was used in the middle east for donage, cheap, cheap wood, back
then. DougChuck and Laura Rose wrote:
 
F

frankdeba27

.
Oct 30, 2019
80
Dear Kristopher,

Chuck Rose is correct that the 5 ton Coast Guard requirement to document a vessel is not its displacement. Our Vega is documented.

As far as sailing between Vermont, Canada, and New York, that may work. I can't speak for New York but Connecticut has a requirement that a boat which has a rented seasonal slip or mooring in the state be registered, and therefore have paid sales tax. In the case of a documented vessel with a seasonal slip or mooring in Connecticut you would have to pays sales tax and get a sticker for the hull; there would be no need to display registration numbers, just the sticker.

I would check out the laws in New York if you have a slip or mooring there. In Connecticut they hire college kids home for the summer to walk the docks and search the mooring fields for boats without stickers.

Connecticut love to collect money. They love the fines and they love to find $400,000.00 documented boats that haven't paid Connecticut sales tax. When I bought my boat I paid Connecticut sales tax and registered it. Soon after, I got a letter from Connecticut saying I hadn't paid sales tax and needed to prove that I had paid it.

Thank you,
Frank DeBaggis
Vega 2141, Carpe Diem
 
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