First of all I want to thank Phil and his colleagues for this web site and also hope they have a great sailing holiday weekend with fair winds. Secondly I would like to ask Phil if it is possible to invite a 3M Company representative to do a guest forum where the subject of 5200 versus whatever can be discussed. 3M is considered one of the greatest companies in the world. The stock has gone up about 40 to 50% recently due to one of the GE executives leaving GE and taking over as CEO of 3M. Tom Peters about 10 years ago ranked them as one of the most innovative companies with incredible R&D. A huge percent of their sales every year are from products invented within the last 4 years. Let's hear it from the experts!!! Wile they're at it maybe they could speak on one step cleaner and wax and other products as well. Thanks again Phil, Dave
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5200
Great idea. While they are here maybe they could respond to why West Marine has pulled ALL the 4200 (at least the two stores I've visited) in the Boston area because the product is hardening in the tube. Anyone have any suggestions as to alternative to 4200 for bedding deck hardware? JT
Great idea. While they are here maybe they could respond to why West Marine has pulled ALL the 4200 (at least the two stores I've visited) in the Boston area because the product is hardening in the tube. Anyone have any suggestions as to alternative to 4200 for bedding deck hardware? JT
Use Life Seal vs. 4200
JT, I used Life Seal instead of 4200 when I rebedded my hand rails on my cabin roof. Have not had a leak there yet (2 months). You can also use Life Calk, which is a polysulfide compound. Both of these are available at WM. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh 86 C-36 #560
JT, I used Life Seal instead of 4200 when I rebedded my hand rails on my cabin roof. Have not had a leak there yet (2 months). You can also use Life Calk, which is a polysulfide compound. Both of these are available at WM. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh 86 C-36 #560
4200 hardened in tube
JT, Was not just Boston apparently....also WM in Sausalito. I tried three tubes before they decided the batch was bad.
JT, Was not just Boston apparently....also WM in Sausalito. I tried three tubes before they decided the batch was bad.
Do one wants to upset you.
Dave: Just a couple of things about your post. 1. Just because a company is successful does NOT mean that they have the best product on the market. Microsoft's windows is an example of an only adequate product that drags the PC market around by it's tail. There were other better products but Microsoft won the marketing battles. As far as 3M, I doubt that their marine sealant division has much to do with the success of their stock. The company is very big on R&D and typically have very innovative products. They are a much bigger company in other areas. 2. I really don't care if someone wants to glue their winches, cleats and sheet stoppers to their deck with 5200. That's just what 'they' think is best way to do it. I personally prefer a product that does the SAME thing without the adhesive quality. This entire issue is more a matter of preference than fact. For the un-informed both sides have make their point (and made them well). It has not changed my mind and will probably continue to use the Life Caulk product as well as 4200. When I find a use for 5200 it will be the first product that I would use. But your idea to get someone to explain the real qualities of these and other products would be very welcome. We can always learn something new.
Dave: Just a couple of things about your post. 1. Just because a company is successful does NOT mean that they have the best product on the market. Microsoft's windows is an example of an only adequate product that drags the PC market around by it's tail. There were other better products but Microsoft won the marketing battles. As far as 3M, I doubt that their marine sealant division has much to do with the success of their stock. The company is very big on R&D and typically have very innovative products. They are a much bigger company in other areas. 2. I really don't care if someone wants to glue their winches, cleats and sheet stoppers to their deck with 5200. That's just what 'they' think is best way to do it. I personally prefer a product that does the SAME thing without the adhesive quality. This entire issue is more a matter of preference than fact. For the un-informed both sides have make their point (and made them well). It has not changed my mind and will probably continue to use the Life Caulk product as well as 4200. When I find a use for 5200 it will be the first product that I would use. But your idea to get someone to explain the real qualities of these and other products would be very welcome. We can always learn something new.
College try
It may be tough to get someone on here from 3M to field questions. I will do some research, but typically, we've had better luck getting moderators from smaller companies that are closer to the marine business. Let me see what/who I can find; it would be interesting.
It may be tough to get someone on here from 3M to field questions. I will do some research, but typically, we've had better luck getting moderators from smaller companies that are closer to the marine business. Let me see what/who I can find; it would be interesting.
Darlin, nobody's knocking 5200
It's about using the right product for the job. 3M also makes Post-It notes (the greatest invention of the 20th century), but you wouldn't use Post-It notes to shingle a roof. Too many people use 5200 inappropriately because they're looking for the easy way out: to be able to do a job once and be able to totally ignore it forever after. That's not possible on boat. 5200 won't let go, even when you need for it to, but it can leak. Trouble is, those who've used it don't expect it to, so they aren't even aware that it is until the leak has caused major damage. Caulk and bedding compound, otoh--where caulk and bedding compound are called for--does need inspection and replacing, and it'll let you know it--IF you're paying ANY attention to what's going on on your boat--BEFORE a leak can either do major damage or sink your boat. The ONLY thing "wrong" with 5200 is that too many people consider 5200 a way out of necessary boat maintenance--a "free lunch." But there ain't no such thing as a free lunch...and there ain't no such thing as a maintenance-free boat.
It's about using the right product for the job. 3M also makes Post-It notes (the greatest invention of the 20th century), but you wouldn't use Post-It notes to shingle a roof. Too many people use 5200 inappropriately because they're looking for the easy way out: to be able to do a job once and be able to totally ignore it forever after. That's not possible on boat. 5200 won't let go, even when you need for it to, but it can leak. Trouble is, those who've used it don't expect it to, so they aren't even aware that it is until the leak has caused major damage. Caulk and bedding compound, otoh--where caulk and bedding compound are called for--does need inspection and replacing, and it'll let you know it--IF you're paying ANY attention to what's going on on your boat--BEFORE a leak can either do major damage or sink your boat. The ONLY thing "wrong" with 5200 is that too many people consider 5200 a way out of necessary boat maintenance--a "free lunch." But there ain't no such thing as a free lunch...and there ain't no such thing as a maintenance-free boat.
3M Support or else!!!!
Phil, You can tell 3M from me that if they refuse to participate in a guest forum that I will sell all eleven shares of stock that I own and thus drive down the market price. You can also threaten them with a boycott, but first you should try to be nice to them!! For the rest of you I wasn't really upset, just thought we should hear from some experts about the products. Dave
Phil, You can tell 3M from me that if they refuse to participate in a guest forum that I will sell all eleven shares of stock that I own and thus drive down the market price. You can also threaten them with a boycott, but first you should try to be nice to them!! For the rest of you I wasn't really upset, just thought we should hear from some experts about the products. Dave
5200 leaking - installation defective
Ah, 5200 doesn't leak but the installations do. Techneques mast be mastered. Never turn a bolt coated with 5200, it will develop an airline following the threads. Never tighten a fixture hard tight when installing. Wait 24-48 hours until the 5200 sets and creates a gasket. Then tighten hard against the semi-pliant 5200. There are other tricts that others could share, but the product doesn't leak, only the bad installations.
Ah, 5200 doesn't leak but the installations do. Techneques mast be mastered. Never turn a bolt coated with 5200, it will develop an airline following the threads. Never tighten a fixture hard tight when installing. Wait 24-48 hours until the 5200 sets and creates a gasket. Then tighten hard against the semi-pliant 5200. There are other tricts that others could share, but the product doesn't leak, only the bad installations.
Didn't mean to start such a debate
Just made an observation, that most of the recommendations include don't use 5200. Between heat and the solvents, I understand you can get it to release. Still, I think Life Caulk wins on most things.
Just made an observation, that most of the recommendations include don't use 5200. Between heat and the solvents, I understand you can get it to release. Still, I think Life Caulk wins on most things.
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