Santa (First Mate) gave me the go-ahead to get one of these little buggers. However, I quickly found that in So. Calif. during the recent fires, that Honda "donated" a large stock to the firefighters. They are hard, if not impossible to find. And, they charge sales tax. After doing a little research, I also found that after January 1st, Honda was no longer going to allow their generators to be sold over the Internet. They want to get you into their dealerships to pay exhorbitant prices. I found a site in OK recommended by a past buyer here on this board. They are currently charging $1141, shipped. Too many dollars! I finally settled on www.americanequipmentusa.com in FL. They're charging $975 shipped to CA. I also found that the current "dealer cost" for the units is $755. Now that I'm finally getting one, I will no longer have to deal with no hot water, deciding which lights to turn off, limiting the use of A/C appliances and spending time charging batteries by running the motor. Life is good... John Richard s/v Jack's Place
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Good tip John.
Would that include dealers who sell on E-Bay I wonder? Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Would that include dealers who sell on E-Bay I wonder? Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Now the only thing you have to worry about is
CO poisoning. Those of you with diesel engines tend to overlook the fact that gas engines produce far more CO. Although there have never been any reported marine related CO deaths from diesel engines and gensets, gas engines and gensets kill people every year. NEVER run it overnight while you're sleeping, and be sure to install a good CO detector in your cabin--one that's hardwired to your battery, not the kind that only use a couple of Duracells (you'll much more likely to know when your boat's battery has died than when the Duracells have). Pay attention to what your body is telling you...the early signs of CO poisoning are a slight headache, slight queasiness, and the urge for a nap...often mistaken for "too much sun." If you or anyone on the boat starts to experience any of these symptoms while the genset is running, turn it off immediately and get away from the boat for a while--into fresh air while the the air around the boat clears. Pay even closer attention when rafted to other boats and/or when there is -0- breeze to blow exhaust away. If you put it on the swim platform, do NOT go swimming around the stern of the boat. Many boat owners don't realize how many ways ther are for CO to get into the cabin of a boat...through sink drains, bilge pump thru-hulls, engine room vents...any hatch that isn't air tight (none are). So enjoy your new generator, but be VERY careful--downright anal wouldn't be overkill when it comes to protecting yourselves from CO poisoning. 'Cuz it's the one thing that doesn't offer the opportunity to wish you'd been more careful or done things differently.
CO poisoning. Those of you with diesel engines tend to overlook the fact that gas engines produce far more CO. Although there have never been any reported marine related CO deaths from diesel engines and gensets, gas engines and gensets kill people every year. NEVER run it overnight while you're sleeping, and be sure to install a good CO detector in your cabin--one that's hardwired to your battery, not the kind that only use a couple of Duracells (you'll much more likely to know when your boat's battery has died than when the Duracells have). Pay attention to what your body is telling you...the early signs of CO poisoning are a slight headache, slight queasiness, and the urge for a nap...often mistaken for "too much sun." If you or anyone on the boat starts to experience any of these symptoms while the genset is running, turn it off immediately and get away from the boat for a while--into fresh air while the the air around the boat clears. Pay even closer attention when rafted to other boats and/or when there is -0- breeze to blow exhaust away. If you put it on the swim platform, do NOT go swimming around the stern of the boat. Many boat owners don't realize how many ways ther are for CO to get into the cabin of a boat...through sink drains, bilge pump thru-hulls, engine room vents...any hatch that isn't air tight (none are). So enjoy your new generator, but be VERY careful--downright anal wouldn't be overkill when it comes to protecting yourselves from CO poisoning. 'Cuz it's the one thing that doesn't offer the opportunity to wish you'd been more careful or done things differently.
Save $
John: Bought mine this past summer and I paid in the $800's for it online, somewher in Kentucky if I remember correctly. If you haven't ordered yet, maybe a bit more searching will some savings. Jeff
John: Bought mine this past summer and I paid in the $800's for it online, somewher in Kentucky if I remember correctly. If you haven't ordered yet, maybe a bit more searching will some savings. Jeff
Generators & CO
Peggie's right. Here are a couple of links to discussions on our C34 Message Board about generators: http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=746602911&r=356602911#356602911 http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=364604153&r=638600253#638600253 http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=122602911&r=432602911#432602911 http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=433600922&r=825602332#825602332 Happy reading. Stu
Peggie's right. Here are a couple of links to discussions on our C34 Message Board about generators: http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=746602911&r=356602911#356602911 http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=364604153&r=638600253#638600253 http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=122602911&r=432602911#432602911 http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=433600922&r=825602332#825602332 Happy reading. Stu
Honda Genset
I bought an almost new (20 hrs.) from a private seller on Ebay about 2 weeks ago. I tried Ebay after being told by an on-line dealer that it would be several months before the EU2000 would be available. I was the lone bidder and the auction closed about an hour after placing my bid. ($825) I just returned from checking it out on our Hunter31. It operated very well powering a small microwave, battery charger and hot water heater simultaneously with a very moderate increase in rpm.
I bought an almost new (20 hrs.) from a private seller on Ebay about 2 weeks ago. I tried Ebay after being told by an on-line dealer that it would be several months before the EU2000 would be available. I was the lone bidder and the auction closed about an hour after placing my bid. ($825) I just returned from checking it out on our Hunter31. It operated very well powering a small microwave, battery charger and hot water heater simultaneously with a very moderate increase in rpm.
BOAT/US Seaworthy Magazine on CO
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/carbonmonoxide.asp I'm NOT trying to talk you out of the Honda...only educate you about how to use it (or any other gasoline powered engine) safely. All of my boats have been gas powered, the last two with gas gensets too...and I'm still here. We don't want to lose you either. I suppose now you'll also have to buy a blender to go with it.
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/carbonmonoxide.asp I'm NOT trying to talk you out of the Honda...only educate you about how to use it (or any other gasoline powered engine) safely. All of my boats have been gas powered, the last two with gas gensets too...and I'm still here. We don't want to lose you either. I suppose now you'll also have to buy a blender to go with it.
You'll like it, John Richard.
I should have bought one a couple of years ago. You'll find an hour a day (or less) is enough for a full battery charge. You may not be able to run a big battery charger and hot water heater the same time. My charger is 130 amps. But, 45 minutes on the battery charger and 15 on the heater and you're finished (unless you spin the amps a lot more than I.) See you on the water. Rick D.
I should have bought one a couple of years ago. You'll find an hour a day (or less) is enough for a full battery charge. You may not be able to run a big battery charger and hot water heater the same time. My charger is 130 amps. But, 45 minutes on the battery charger and 15 on the heater and you're finished (unless you spin the amps a lot more than I.) See you on the water. Rick D.
Also, Salt Air is Murder on Generator Parts
Besides the CO problem, salt air is murder on the steel and aluminum materials the generator is made out of. From experience, I picked up a Honda EM650 that had been used for an RV for several years and it looked nearly new. Used it on a trip for only ONE month, keeping it under the helm seat, and by the next spring it looked really ratty. The aluminum oxidized and the steel parts all rusted. Since the units are not constructed with marine grade materials I can only wonder what the insides might look like after a few years of use pumping all that salt air through the system for cooling. I'm also concerned about what the salt air does to the electrical components. Sold the 650 and got a 1000i but plan to take better care of it and keep it off the boat as much as possible and covered when on the boat because if I don't it won't take long for it to look ratty. In my opinion playing with CO is worse than playing with fire because it's odorless, colorless, heavier than air, and numbs the senses. And a major concern is the stationwagon effect - just because it's on the stern and downwind don't think the CO can't get to you. At least with fire you can see it. The best thing is to know what's hapening and play it safe.
Besides the CO problem, salt air is murder on the steel and aluminum materials the generator is made out of. From experience, I picked up a Honda EM650 that had been used for an RV for several years and it looked nearly new. Used it on a trip for only ONE month, keeping it under the helm seat, and by the next spring it looked really ratty. The aluminum oxidized and the steel parts all rusted. Since the units are not constructed with marine grade materials I can only wonder what the insides might look like after a few years of use pumping all that salt air through the system for cooling. I'm also concerned about what the salt air does to the electrical components. Sold the 650 and got a 1000i but plan to take better care of it and keep it off the boat as much as possible and covered when on the boat because if I don't it won't take long for it to look ratty. In my opinion playing with CO is worse than playing with fire because it's odorless, colorless, heavier than air, and numbs the senses. And a major concern is the stationwagon effect - just because it's on the stern and downwind don't think the CO can't get to you. At least with fire you can see it. The best thing is to know what's hapening and play it safe.
Honda Advice
John - I've used a Honda 2000 on my 450 for about a year and LOVE it. Be aware that your "reverse polarity" light will come on when you plug it into the boat. I've been told that this is because it is not grounded. 3 people at Honda, 2 electricians, and an "alternative power sources" lecturer at West Marine all assured me that this won't cause a problem, and in a year of use it hasn't. My standard Grunert fridge/freezer compressor and water pump draw 7.5 amps when running, but almost 30 on start up! If your unit is similar you need to be sure that the batteries are fully charged or the charger is off when you start the fridge or the emergency breaker on the generator will cut power. I store mine in the aft lazarette (fits nicely on the top shelf) and leave it on the fantail while running so there's no CO worry. I've even strapped it down with bungies and run it while underway in an emergency. I searched the Internet and paid in the low $800 range for mine. I don't recall who I purchased from, but search google.com for "discount honda generator" and you'll eventually run across them. For anyone else considering one of these - if 2kw turns out to be a little less power than you need, the units are designed to be hooked together for a 4kw solution with special cords from Honda. Enjoy the HOT showers!!
John - I've used a Honda 2000 on my 450 for about a year and LOVE it. Be aware that your "reverse polarity" light will come on when you plug it into the boat. I've been told that this is because it is not grounded. 3 people at Honda, 2 electricians, and an "alternative power sources" lecturer at West Marine all assured me that this won't cause a problem, and in a year of use it hasn't. My standard Grunert fridge/freezer compressor and water pump draw 7.5 amps when running, but almost 30 on start up! If your unit is similar you need to be sure that the batteries are fully charged or the charger is off when you start the fridge or the emergency breaker on the generator will cut power. I store mine in the aft lazarette (fits nicely on the top shelf) and leave it on the fantail while running so there's no CO worry. I've even strapped it down with bungies and run it while underway in an emergency. I searched the Internet and paid in the low $800 range for mine. I don't recall who I purchased from, but search google.com for "discount honda generator" and you'll eventually run across them. For anyone else considering one of these - if 2kw turns out to be a little less power than you need, the units are designed to be hooked together for a 4kw solution with special cords from Honda. Enjoy the HOT showers!!
Rick - Spray with What?
Do you spray it to help reduce oxidation and rust? What do you use? Also, if it's oil based does it "stink" things up? Jim - the reverse polarity light on my boat doesn't come on. I also use a separate polarity tester, if needed, which I use for dock boxes at marinas I visit for a back -up when trying to find a receptacle that isn't wired wrong. There was a discussion about this time last year and I double-checked everything and no problem. Just because a gen set is on the swim step is no reason to assume it won't be a problem. The stationwagon effect has been known to cause the exhaust to flow into the boat. Also note the cabin sole of the boat is lower than sea level and once the gas is there, being heavier than air, how can it get out? For info, some (all?) of the boats where CO deaths have occured have had their exhausts in the stern and some of the victims have been outside the boat(!) That's why one has to be careful. We have two CO detectors on board and in different locations for redundency. The EU1000i requires a bit of energy management to prevent serious overload. The Heart Freedom 10 with the golf cart banks will really suck the juice so I charge one bank for a bit, then do the other and finally both and it works okay, then the water heater while topping off the batteries. If I had to do it over again I think I would opt for the EU2000i but it weighs quite a bit more. Cost wasn't an issue as there isn't that much difference.
Do you spray it to help reduce oxidation and rust? What do you use? Also, if it's oil based does it "stink" things up? Jim - the reverse polarity light on my boat doesn't come on. I also use a separate polarity tester, if needed, which I use for dock boxes at marinas I visit for a back -up when trying to find a receptacle that isn't wired wrong. There was a discussion about this time last year and I double-checked everything and no problem. Just because a gen set is on the swim step is no reason to assume it won't be a problem. The stationwagon effect has been known to cause the exhaust to flow into the boat. Also note the cabin sole of the boat is lower than sea level and once the gas is there, being heavier than air, how can it get out? For info, some (all?) of the boats where CO deaths have occured have had their exhausts in the stern and some of the victims have been outside the boat(!) That's why one has to be careful. We have two CO detectors on board and in different locations for redundency. The EU1000i requires a bit of energy management to prevent serious overload. The Heart Freedom 10 with the golf cart banks will really suck the juice so I charge one bank for a bit, then do the other and finally both and it works okay, then the water heater while topping off the batteries. If I had to do it over again I think I would opt for the EU2000i but it weighs quite a bit more. Cost wasn't an issue as there isn't that much difference.
Try Boeshield.
I use Boeshield around the boat. The terminal strip in the bilge for example, where all the mast wires interconnect. Stays nice and clean and shiny. Also on back of electrical panel. When I winterize I spray the entire Yanmar and then cover for the winter. BUT(big but), I am not in salt water.
I use Boeshield around the boat. The terminal strip in the bilge for example, where all the mast wires interconnect. Stays nice and clean and shiny. Also on back of electrical panel. When I winterize I spray the entire Yanmar and then cover for the winter. BUT(big but), I am not in salt water.
Boeshield - Sounds Great!
Thanks for the info Ed - I'll check it out. I have a spray can of Boeshield but never thought of spraying it on a generator but it makes sense. I use it on a number of other things though. Using it on the boats engine is a good idea too. Thanks for the idea.
Thanks for the info Ed - I'll check it out. I have a spray can of Boeshield but never thought of spraying it on a generator but it makes sense. I use it on a number of other things though. Using it on the boats engine is a good idea too. Thanks for the idea.
corosion X
Corosion X also works pretty good. a little thicker than boshield. and may be easier to find. also probably cheaper.
Corosion X also works pretty good. a little thicker than boshield. and may be easier to find. also probably cheaper.
CO INFO
I want to set the record strait ...... CO or carbon monoxide is lighter than air not heavier than air. there seems to be a lot of people beleive that CO is heavier than air and it is not. I don't want to belittle the dangers of CO however it will not settle to the lowest areas of your boat.
I want to set the record strait ...... CO or carbon monoxide is lighter than air not heavier than air. there seems to be a lot of people beleive that CO is heavier than air and it is not. I don't want to belittle the dangers of CO however it will not settle to the lowest areas of your boat.
Paul, your post is a first for me. At no time in
my life (over a half century) have I heard anyone say that CO is lighter than air. Until you, right now! HUH????
my life (over a half century) have I heard anyone say that CO is lighter than air. Until you, right now! HUH????
Paul is Right ON
This is a quote from a CO safety sheet. Carbon monoxide results from incomplete combustion of organic carbon-based materials. It is also an after-product of detonated explosives and diesel engines. Carbon monoxide is highly toxic to the body. When inhaled, CO quickly bonds with the body’s hemoglobin, thus reducing the blood’s ability to carry oxygen throughout the body. Properties: · Flammable · Colorless · Tasteless · Odorless · Lighter than air Don' feel bad Fred, I learn something new everyday. Ward
This is a quote from a CO safety sheet. Carbon monoxide results from incomplete combustion of organic carbon-based materials. It is also an after-product of detonated explosives and diesel engines. Carbon monoxide is highly toxic to the body. When inhaled, CO quickly bonds with the body’s hemoglobin, thus reducing the blood’s ability to carry oxygen throughout the body. Properties: · Flammable · Colorless · Tasteless · Odorless · Lighter than air Don' feel bad Fred, I learn something new everyday.
Ward
The good news is: nobody is completely wrong!
Among other research topics, my laboratory at the University of Utah analyzes ambient air as well as exhaust gases for a living. Therefore, I feel confident to state that the issues raised in the last few posts appear simple but are actually pretty complex. Not only are multiple interactive forces at work but, more importantly, the correct answer may well depend on one's perspective. Yes, 22.4 liters of CO at atmospheric pressure (i.e. 1 mole) weigh nominally 28 g (C+O = 12+16), whereas air is a mixture of approximately 80% N2 (N+N = 28) + 20% O2 (O+O = 32) and thus weighs approximately 28.8 g per mole (i.e. .8x28 + .2x32 ). So, formally speaking, CO is lighter than air that has any oxygen left in it. Now, if I wanted to be exact about it I would also have to consider that the true weight of 1 mole of CO depends on its precise isotopic composition, and thereby on it's origin! However, now we are talking about milligram range differences (or less) per mole and none of this matters for the practical question which is: will CO gas sink to the bottom or rise to the top inside your cabin? The short answer is: if CO would tend to rise to the top, so would nitrogen gas (thus leaving us with air enriched in oxygen near the floor and enriched in nitrogen near the ceiling). We all know that this does not happen under practical conditions; i.e. it is just as easy to breathe or light a candle near the floor or near the ceiling). The long answer would have to consider a variety of so-called "initial conditions" (i.e. how concentrated were the CO-rich flows entering the cabin, were they laminar or turbulent, and were they released near the ceiling or near the floor, or even in the bilge perhaps) plus the diffusion and dispersion forces active in the room (loosely referred to as "transport conditions"). But who cares? So, why is Fred not wrong and why is the information in the CO safety pamphlet slightly misleading? Well, has anyone ever heard or read the equivalent (but somewhat silly) claim that "nitrogen gas is lighter than air" ? I rest my case. Have fun! Flying Dutchman
Among other research topics, my laboratory at the University of Utah analyzes ambient air as well as exhaust gases for a living. Therefore, I feel confident to state that the issues raised in the last few posts appear simple but are actually pretty complex. Not only are multiple interactive forces at work but, more importantly, the correct answer may well depend on one's perspective. Yes, 22.4 liters of CO at atmospheric pressure (i.e. 1 mole) weigh nominally 28 g (C+O = 12+16), whereas air is a mixture of approximately 80% N2 (N+N = 28) + 20% O2 (O+O = 32) and thus weighs approximately 28.8 g per mole (i.e. .8x28 + .2x32 ). So, formally speaking, CO is lighter than air that has any oxygen left in it. Now, if I wanted to be exact about it I would also have to consider that the true weight of 1 mole of CO depends on its precise isotopic composition, and thereby on it's origin! However, now we are talking about milligram range differences (or less) per mole and none of this matters for the practical question which is: will CO gas sink to the bottom or rise to the top inside your cabin? The short answer is: if CO would tend to rise to the top, so would nitrogen gas (thus leaving us with air enriched in oxygen near the floor and enriched in nitrogen near the ceiling). We all know that this does not happen under practical conditions; i.e. it is just as easy to breathe or light a candle near the floor or near the ceiling). The long answer would have to consider a variety of so-called "initial conditions" (i.e. how concentrated were the CO-rich flows entering the cabin, were they laminar or turbulent, and were they released near the ceiling or near the floor, or even in the bilge perhaps) plus the diffusion and dispersion forces active in the room (loosely referred to as "transport conditions"). But who cares? So, why is Fred not wrong and why is the information in the CO safety pamphlet slightly misleading? Well, has anyone ever heard or read the equivalent (but somewhat silly) claim that "nitrogen gas is lighter than air" ? I rest my case. Have fun! Flying Dutchman
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