Has anyone ever unstepped their mast with the boat in the water? My trailer is not available right now, and I need to replace my Windex and unjam a halyard. I can get help if I need it. Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated. Thanks! Peter S/V Raven
Unstepping mast on the water
- Thread starter Wanderer138
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I have a 240 and not sure if it's the same but I have unstepped my mast several times on the water. I actually find it easier. (I can stand on the slip and reach all the rigging.)
I have a 240 and not sure if it's the same but I have unstepped my mast several times on the water. I actually find it easier. (I can stand on the slip and reach all the rigging.)
I've Done it Twice
I lowered it part way to go under a bridge. No mast crutch so we just dropped it and I held the mast at the stern until we motored under then put it back up. We never unpinned the mast. The other time was for the same reason as you. A slip knot tied itself in the halyard when we stepped the mast. We didn't notice it until we were motored out in the lake. Rather than going back in, we just dropped the mast, unpinned it and slid the mast forward until I could reach the knot. Restepped the mast and put the sail up. Both of these occasions I had the mast tripod connected so I didn't have to worry about the mast going sideways on me. That would be my biggest concern doing it on the water. A rocking boat could put a lot of side force on a 33' mast. Good luck Ward
I lowered it part way to go under a bridge. No mast crutch so we just dropped it and I held the mast at the stern until we motored under then put it back up. We never unpinned the mast. The other time was for the same reason as you. A slip knot tied itself in the halyard when we stepped the mast. We didn't notice it until we were motored out in the lake. Rather than going back in, we just dropped the mast, unpinned it and slid the mast forward until I could reach the knot. Restepped the mast and put the sail up. Both of these occasions I had the mast tripod connected so I didn't have to worry about the mast going sideways on me. That would be my biggest concern doing it on the water. A rocking boat could put a lot of side force on a 33' mast. Good luck Ward
Yup, no problem
Be very careful with those little pins and rings. If they go overboard, you be motoring back home. It's a good idea to carry spares anyway. The crutch has been on the back of my H23.5 all summer because I haven't gotten around to stowing it but I sure made it handy to replace my Windex. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
Be very careful with those little pins and rings. If they go overboard, you be motoring back home. It's a good idea to carry spares anyway. The crutch has been on the back of my H23.5 all summer because I haven't gotten around to stowing it but I sure made it handy to replace my Windex. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
Done it once, no prob
Hi Peter, I had to go through it once to get under a bridge. I actually did all the work in a slip, then moved the boat under the bridge and put it on its trailer on the other side of the bridge... The only concern I had was the boat rocking from side to side. We didn't have any waves that day, so it was a piece of cake- Just like doing it on the trailer, but lower to the ground! ;o) --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (For sale!) H25 'Adagio'
Hi Peter, I had to go through it once to get under a bridge. I actually did all the work in a slip, then moved the boat under the bridge and put it on its trailer on the other side of the bridge... The only concern I had was the boat rocking from side to side. We didn't have any waves that day, so it was a piece of cake- Just like doing it on the trailer, but lower to the ground! ;o) --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (For sale!) H25 'Adagio'
Slow Movements
I don't have a trailor and the lift at the marina needs the mast down. As a result, when I need the bottom painted the mast has to be removed. It is very important that everyone makes slow easy movements to prevent the boat from rocking. We use one man at the bow, one man at the mast, and one man at the stern. The man at the bow releases the forestay and lets out the jib halyard. The man at the mast removes first pin and steadies mast as it is lowered. The man in the stern takes hold of the mast when it gets low enough. The tricky part is when the second mast pin is removed. The man in the stern acts as a fulcrum and, since more weight is hanging off the stern than is still in the boat, when the second/last pin is removed the base of the mast will want to swing up from the deck. As soon as possible the base of the mast needs to be moved forward so the weight is back into the boat. I would really like to try out the mast tripod that Ward has posted in the photo forum. Greg Hartgraves S/V Paradise
I don't have a trailor and the lift at the marina needs the mast down. As a result, when I need the bottom painted the mast has to be removed. It is very important that everyone makes slow easy movements to prevent the boat from rocking. We use one man at the bow, one man at the mast, and one man at the stern. The man at the bow releases the forestay and lets out the jib halyard. The man at the mast removes first pin and steadies mast as it is lowered. The man in the stern takes hold of the mast when it gets low enough. The tricky part is when the second mast pin is removed. The man in the stern acts as a fulcrum and, since more weight is hanging off the stern than is still in the boat, when the second/last pin is removed the base of the mast will want to swing up from the deck. As soon as possible the base of the mast needs to be moved forward so the weight is back into the boat. I would really like to try out the mast tripod that Ward has posted in the photo forum. Greg Hartgraves S/V Paradise
unstepping on water,
We have on occasion unstepped, we just turn boat around in dock and it is really easier,god luck Mike ,
We have on occasion unstepped, we just turn boat around in dock and it is really easier,god luck Mike ,
climb?
Have you considered sending someone aloft? I sent my son up recently and it was quite easy. Just find an adventurous, young lightweight and hoist them up with the main halyard. I used a rappelling harness. He hung there for a long while with no problem.
Have you considered sending someone aloft? I sent my son up recently and it was quite easy. Just find an adventurous, young lightweight and hoist them up with the main halyard. I used a rappelling harness. He hung there for a long while with no problem.
My preferred method
On the 240, I prefer to step/unstep at the dock on the water. It can be done by one person (two makes it easier). It's less far to fall and the sudden stop at the end of the fall is not as hard should you slip & fall. There is a sense of more sure footedness when raising or lowering the mast on the water vs on the trailer.
On the 240, I prefer to step/unstep at the dock on the water. It can be done by one person (two makes it easier). It's less far to fall and the sudden stop at the end of the fall is not as hard should you slip & fall. There is a sense of more sure footedness when raising or lowering the mast on the water vs on the trailer.
Thnaks for all your suggestions!
The two that I liked the most were: a) Watch out for the mast base, which will tend to kick up when the pin is released (why didn't I think of that?!), and b) turn the boat around in the slip so the bow points out (excellent idea!) I would go up the mast myself, but I'm way too heavy and there is no one who I could possibly convince to make the trip on my behalf. I'm going to have to build one of those mast raising rigs soon. The jib halyard is gone too, so it looks like it's going to be a long day on Saturday. Oh well. Peter S/V Raven
The two that I liked the most were: a) Watch out for the mast base, which will tend to kick up when the pin is released (why didn't I think of that?!), and b) turn the boat around in the slip so the bow points out (excellent idea!) I would go up the mast myself, but I'm way too heavy and there is no one who I could possibly convince to make the trip on my behalf. I'm going to have to build one of those mast raising rigs soon. The jib halyard is gone too, so it looks like it's going to be a long day on Saturday. Oh well. Peter S/V Raven
Jib halyard jammed?
Ewww, that makes this project a little more difficult. You may be able to do it if you: 1. Let out your main halyard as far as possible without sending it up the mast (Heck, even if it goes up, it won't matter- You can get it back when the mast is down... as long as it doesn't com completely out if the mast!) You'll need as much free line as you can get for this trick. 2. Route the free end of the main halyard around the spreaders, through a block in the anchor locker, find a place to cleat it off; 3. Release the forestay; 4. Have someone SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY feed this line through the block, while you keep the mast from swinging side-to-side. In fact, I'd keep a turn on that cleat, just in case I needed to stop that line from running free. 5. Have someone in the cockpit to 'catch' the mast, and guide it into the mast crutch (or some other support). 6. Un-pin and move mast as necessary. OK, this method takes three people, but if you can't use your jib halyard, it seems the safest to me. Another thing to think about- If you're going to turn you boat around in its slip, be sure your mast doesn't come down on the boat across the dock from you. I can only imagine the look on my neighbor's face if he found my mast resting on his spreaders...
) Good luck, and let us know how it goes! --Jon Bastien
Ewww, that makes this project a little more difficult. You may be able to do it if you: 1. Let out your main halyard as far as possible without sending it up the mast (Heck, even if it goes up, it won't matter- You can get it back when the mast is down... as long as it doesn't com completely out if the mast!) You'll need as much free line as you can get for this trick. 2. Route the free end of the main halyard around the spreaders, through a block in the anchor locker, find a place to cleat it off; 3. Release the forestay; 4. Have someone SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY feed this line through the block, while you keep the mast from swinging side-to-side. In fact, I'd keep a turn on that cleat, just in case I needed to stop that line from running free. 5. Have someone in the cockpit to 'catch' the mast, and guide it into the mast crutch (or some other support). 6. Un-pin and move mast as necessary. OK, this method takes three people, but if you can't use your jib halyard, it seems the safest to me. Another thing to think about- If you're going to turn you boat around in its slip, be sure your mast doesn't come down on the boat across the dock from you. I can only imagine the look on my neighbor's face if he found my mast resting on his spreaders...
) Good luck, and let us know how it goes! --Jon BastienThanks for the tips Jon...now tell me if I'm crazy
Here's how I plan to get around the problem of the missing jib halyard. I'm going to tie a loop in the end of the new jib halyard (70 ft long) and hoist it almost to the top of the mast using the main halyard. Once there, I'll cleat off the main halyard, bring the jib halyard through the spreaders and around to the bow, run it through a block shackled to the stem fitting and then lead it back to the winch on the port side, which will be away from the dock. That way I won't have to yell at my helper on the winch, if things start to get out of hand I can cleat off the line, and I can get onto the dock to receive the mast as it comes down, hopefully in a controlled manner. The fun will start when I try to fish the new halyard through the mast without fouling the VHF antenna lead or the wiring for the masthead light. Then it will hit a new high as I try to re-step the mast. Maybe I better do this on a weekday morning, when there won't be any spectators at the marina. Peter S/V Raven
Here's how I plan to get around the problem of the missing jib halyard. I'm going to tie a loop in the end of the new jib halyard (70 ft long) and hoist it almost to the top of the mast using the main halyard. Once there, I'll cleat off the main halyard, bring the jib halyard through the spreaders and around to the bow, run it through a block shackled to the stem fitting and then lead it back to the winch on the port side, which will be away from the dock. That way I won't have to yell at my helper on the winch, if things start to get out of hand I can cleat off the line, and I can get onto the dock to receive the mast as it comes down, hopefully in a controlled manner. The fun will start when I try to fish the new halyard through the mast without fouling the VHF antenna lead or the wiring for the masthead light. Then it will hit a new high as I try to re-step the mast. Maybe I better do this on a weekday morning, when there won't be any spectators at the marina. Peter S/V Raven
Unstepping the mast on the water - Epilogue
Now I know why sailors curse! It took all day Friday in 96 degree heat and passing thunderstorms to lower the mast, fit the new Windex, run the new jib halyard, raise the mast, and retune the rig. Here are a few things that I learned in the process: a) sunblock really works (I forgot to apply it Friday and my face still burns) b) mud wasps like to build their nests in sailboat masts c) Once the shrouds go slack, the mast takes on a life of its own. I am now shopping for a new mast base casting. d) the H23 has a sheave above the forestay fitting for a spinnaker! e) Even with the backstay completely slack, the forestay will not go slack until the lower shrouds are very loose. e) the people who designed the forestay fitting in the anchor locker are sadists. Only a four year old has hands small enough to put that cotter pin back in. f) Weekdays are best for doing stuff like this. There is a lot less traffic. We raised the mast by throwing a line over the crossbeam on the marina's travelift and then shackling it around the mast at the spreaders. Keeping the mast horizontal, we picked it up bodily about 6 feet off the deck. The main halyard and a tagline on the lower end kept the mast under control. By grabbing the lower end of the mast and pushing down and back, we stepped it in less than 10 minutes. We fished the shackle from around the spreaders using a long boathook. Anybody who routinely raises and lowers the mast on the H23 has my deepest and utmost respect. I'm not worthy!! Peter S/V Raven
Now I know why sailors curse! It took all day Friday in 96 degree heat and passing thunderstorms to lower the mast, fit the new Windex, run the new jib halyard, raise the mast, and retune the rig. Here are a few things that I learned in the process: a) sunblock really works (I forgot to apply it Friday and my face still burns) b) mud wasps like to build their nests in sailboat masts c) Once the shrouds go slack, the mast takes on a life of its own. I am now shopping for a new mast base casting. d) the H23 has a sheave above the forestay fitting for a spinnaker! e) Even with the backstay completely slack, the forestay will not go slack until the lower shrouds are very loose. e) the people who designed the forestay fitting in the anchor locker are sadists. Only a four year old has hands small enough to put that cotter pin back in. f) Weekdays are best for doing stuff like this. There is a lot less traffic. We raised the mast by throwing a line over the crossbeam on the marina's travelift and then shackling it around the mast at the spreaders. Keeping the mast horizontal, we picked it up bodily about 6 feet off the deck. The main halyard and a tagline on the lower end kept the mast under control. By grabbing the lower end of the mast and pushing down and back, we stepped it in less than 10 minutes. We fished the shackle from around the spreaders using a long boathook. Anybody who routinely raises and lowers the mast on the H23 has my deepest and utmost respect. I'm not worthy!! Peter S/V Raven
Hey Peter, I'm pretty sure I.....
bought the last mast foot casting for an '88 Z-Spar in existence last year. I've asked Hunter twice for the name and address of the person responsible for the forestay thing. They've so far declined to supply the info. Greg H23 Faster-
bought the last mast foot casting for an '88 Z-Spar in existence last year. I've asked Hunter twice for the name and address of the person responsible for the forestay thing. They've so far declined to supply the info. Greg H23 Faster-
Mast base casing
I know these are hard to find- I had to buy what I thought was the last one in existance last year too. I got mine from the good folks at US Spars in Gainesville. They claim to be the only "authorized Z-Spar dealer" in the states; their number is (904) 462-3760, and their web site is http://www.usspars.com . It cost me about 70 bucks for the new casing, and about 20 minutes of my time to drill out the old one and rivet the new one in. That price included a couple of sheaves (The ones you get at West Marine don't quite fit right), and some pins to hold those sheaves. As an aside (and I certainly don't recommend this for safety reasons), The casing for my H23 mast had 2 places where the clevis pin passed through it. I trailer-sailed my H23 for almost a year with only one side of that fitting intact... I finally shelled out the $$ when the other side broke during a mast lowering under "other than optimal" conditions. Again, not recommended, but we never had a problem sailing the boat with a 'broken' casing. For the rest of the items in your list- I thought you'd had your mast down before, Peter! I didn't realize this was the first time you had to raise/lower it. -- Yep. Sunblock is a Godsend. -- Eewww, don't like wasps... Didn't know about them nesting in the mast, but I had 2 nests in my H23 interior when I bought it. Vacated, thank goodness. -- Mast "taking on a life of its own"- Yeah, that's true. I usually control that by straddling the mast as it comes down and using my thighs to 'nudge' it around and keep it centered. Some people use baby stays attached to the stanchions on deck to prevent that swing... Again, if I'd known this was your first lowering, I'd have warned you about this. -- Spinnaker sheave- If you look at the US Spars web page, not all models of the H23 mast have that sheave. You're one of the lucky ones! Only drawback- No sheave at the base of the mast for that halyard (although you can add one easily enough). -- Re: forestay tension... I usually just unscrew the turnbuckle for the forestay until it is loose enough to remove the pin; seems easier than trying to re-tune the lower shrouds when raising. -- Greg- If you ever find out who designed that forestay attachment point, let us know. I think there are a bunch of H23 owners (who don't have convenient 4-year-olds) who would like to have a conversation with him... ;o) -- Weekdays are definitely best for this- It means you're not at the office, right? Sorry to hear that you had so much trouble with lowering and raising. After you've done it a few times, you develop a system that works for you (and your system may not work for someone else...), and it gets MUCH easier. Of course, the travel lift method is the easiest of them all! --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' H25 'Adagio'
I know these are hard to find- I had to buy what I thought was the last one in existance last year too. I got mine from the good folks at US Spars in Gainesville. They claim to be the only "authorized Z-Spar dealer" in the states; their number is (904) 462-3760, and their web site is http://www.usspars.com . It cost me about 70 bucks for the new casing, and about 20 minutes of my time to drill out the old one and rivet the new one in. That price included a couple of sheaves (The ones you get at West Marine don't quite fit right), and some pins to hold those sheaves. As an aside (and I certainly don't recommend this for safety reasons), The casing for my H23 mast had 2 places where the clevis pin passed through it. I trailer-sailed my H23 for almost a year with only one side of that fitting intact... I finally shelled out the $$ when the other side broke during a mast lowering under "other than optimal" conditions. Again, not recommended, but we never had a problem sailing the boat with a 'broken' casing. For the rest of the items in your list- I thought you'd had your mast down before, Peter! I didn't realize this was the first time you had to raise/lower it. -- Yep. Sunblock is a Godsend. -- Eewww, don't like wasps... Didn't know about them nesting in the mast, but I had 2 nests in my H23 interior when I bought it. Vacated, thank goodness. -- Mast "taking on a life of its own"- Yeah, that's true. I usually control that by straddling the mast as it comes down and using my thighs to 'nudge' it around and keep it centered. Some people use baby stays attached to the stanchions on deck to prevent that swing... Again, if I'd known this was your first lowering, I'd have warned you about this. -- Spinnaker sheave- If you look at the US Spars web page, not all models of the H23 mast have that sheave. You're one of the lucky ones! Only drawback- No sheave at the base of the mast for that halyard (although you can add one easily enough). -- Re: forestay tension... I usually just unscrew the turnbuckle for the forestay until it is loose enough to remove the pin; seems easier than trying to re-tune the lower shrouds when raising. -- Greg- If you ever find out who designed that forestay attachment point, let us know. I think there are a bunch of H23 owners (who don't have convenient 4-year-olds) who would like to have a conversation with him... ;o) -- Weekdays are definitely best for this- It means you're not at the office, right? Sorry to hear that you had so much trouble with lowering and raising. After you've done it a few times, you develop a system that works for you (and your system may not work for someone else...), and it gets MUCH easier. Of course, the travel lift method is the easiest of them all! --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' H25 'Adagio'
Jon, Your last casting must be...
more laster than mine as I only paid about $40 for mine. I have yet to install as I still have 1 tang left and a mast tower available for raising, lowering and clumbing for mast head work. I too have got to install a new Windex as the old one is getting smaller and harder to see. I got a new (biggest available) and will install after I put an 8 degree bend in the post to comp for mast rake. Greg H23 Faster-
more laster than mine as I only paid about $40 for mine. I have yet to install as I still have 1 tang left and a mast tower available for raising, lowering and clumbing for mast head work. I too have got to install a new Windex as the old one is getting smaller and harder to see. I got a new (biggest available) and will install after I put an 8 degree bend in the post to comp for mast rake. Greg H23 Faster-
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