Ok Folks, Before I go spend $$ on a professional rigger, I'd like to ask ya'll's advice one more time. I think my rigging is too loose. Under light winds, you don't notice much, but in a broad reach in 15kts winds, the lee side shrouds go fairly slack. So my question is is this normal, or should I tighten the shrouds. For the second issue is my forestay. I've got a roller furling and I think the forestay was cut too long. First, there's noticable slack in the furler's headstay. Second, when I release the jib halyard after connecting the roller furling, the mast doesn't sit tight on the step (probably 1/8 inch or slightly more gap between mast and step). Any inputs? Also, did they take the archives down? Deucer
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If your concerned, get a Loos gauge.....
that will help you save some money on the rigger, depending on the size cables, your going to need a PT-1, PT-2, or PT-3 gauge. Get the professional series, those are way better than the cheaper models, yea they cost more, but are woth it.
that will help you save some money on the rigger, depending on the size cables, your going to need a PT-1, PT-2, or PT-3 gauge. Get the professional series, those are way better than the cheaper models, yea they cost more, but are woth it.
Your shrouds shouldn't ever be slack
Good advice from Mike, get yourself a Loos gauge. Tuning your own standing rigging isn't difficult at all.
Good advice from Mike, get yourself a Loos gauge. Tuning your own standing rigging isn't difficult at all.
What Boat?
If it is a B & R rigged Hunter and the rig is loose, you could loose it. Suggest never to sail with a slack rig and the Hunter site carries info on tuning. On B & R the lee shrouds should never go slack, though this is somewhat less critical on 'conventionally' rigged boats - ie. boats with backstays. Again the forestay tension on modern Hunters depends on the shroud tensions. Any gap between mast step and mast heel indicates a loose rig and/or or too much mast rake. Suggest you read up on this before buying a Loos Gauge. My 376 manual says shrouds should be tightened till no more tension can be applied using a standard spanner but without any extension tube. The knack is to know which wires to tweak.
If it is a B & R rigged Hunter and the rig is loose, you could loose it. Suggest never to sail with a slack rig and the Hunter site carries info on tuning. On B & R the lee shrouds should never go slack, though this is somewhat less critical on 'conventionally' rigged boats - ie. boats with backstays. Again the forestay tension on modern Hunters depends on the shroud tensions. Any gap between mast step and mast heel indicates a loose rig and/or or too much mast rake. Suggest you read up on this before buying a Loos Gauge. My 376 manual says shrouds should be tightened till no more tension can be applied using a standard spanner but without any extension tube. The knack is to know which wires to tweak.
yes, loose shrouds could lead to a dismast.
Get a Loos gauge and tighten them according to a percentage of the breaking strength for the thickness of the wire. If your forestay is too long it can be cut to size. It seems to me that if your shrouds and headstay are that loose perhaps your problem lies in the compression post; it seems your mast step base has given way as seasoned wire does not strech that much. I would suggest you inspect and perhaps repair the compression post and mast step and then get a rigger to cut and adjust the wires and then from there on you can do periodic tuning. Like other have said there should be no slack in any of the riggin. I would not sail again until the riggin is tuned.
Get a Loos gauge and tighten them according to a percentage of the breaking strength for the thickness of the wire. If your forestay is too long it can be cut to size. It seems to me that if your shrouds and headstay are that loose perhaps your problem lies in the compression post; it seems your mast step base has given way as seasoned wire does not strech that much. I would suggest you inspect and perhaps repair the compression post and mast step and then get a rigger to cut and adjust the wires and then from there on you can do periodic tuning. Like other have said there should be no slack in any of the riggin. I would not sail again until the riggin is tuned.
H260 Rigging
You don't need a professional rigger just yet. I forget if you have a H26 or an H260 but the principles are similar. Both boats do not have a back stay. Your forestay might be too long but but I doubt it. Have you done the "wrench test"? Using the main halyard, center the rig in the middle of the boat by first jamming the halyard in a position so that the halyard shackle just contacts known point on the port side. Then, with the same tension, move the halyard to the starboard side to the corresponding position. After the mast is centered, hang a crescent wrench from the main halyard just above the gooseneck. The wrench should hang 6 inches away from the aft face of the mast. Once you've done this test, you can adjust the forestay length and tweak the shrouds. You have to measure the tension on your shrouds with a Loose Gage. The Hunter 260 (and probably the H26) uses Hackensack 316 Stainless Steel 1/8" (3.2mm) 1X19 cable and 5/32" (4mm) 1X19 cable for the H260. The Hackensack 1 x 19 Strand cable is strong, with less stretch but is also less flexible than many types of cable and does not allow for kinks or bends. With all of the cables tensioned so that none are slack, set up RD1 (1/8" / 3.2mm cable) to 356 lbs or 20% of it's nominal breaking strength of 1780 pounds. This should be about 26 on the PT-1 professional Loos Gage. Set D1, D2, and V1 (5/32 / 4mm cable) to 560 lbs or 20% of nominal breaking strength of 2800 pounds. This will be about 37 on the Loos Gage. Questions check with Hunter. Also, This and more information on the H260 rigging is in the Manual and at this link: http://kobernus.com/hunter260/rigging/rigging.html
You don't need a professional rigger just yet. I forget if you have a H26 or an H260 but the principles are similar. Both boats do not have a back stay. Your forestay might be too long but but I doubt it. Have you done the "wrench test"? Using the main halyard, center the rig in the middle of the boat by first jamming the halyard in a position so that the halyard shackle just contacts known point on the port side. Then, with the same tension, move the halyard to the starboard side to the corresponding position. After the mast is centered, hang a crescent wrench from the main halyard just above the gooseneck. The wrench should hang 6 inches away from the aft face of the mast. Once you've done this test, you can adjust the forestay length and tweak the shrouds. You have to measure the tension on your shrouds with a Loose Gage. The Hunter 260 (and probably the H26) uses Hackensack 316 Stainless Steel 1/8" (3.2mm) 1X19 cable and 5/32" (4mm) 1X19 cable for the H260. The Hackensack 1 x 19 Strand cable is strong, with less stretch but is also less flexible than many types of cable and does not allow for kinks or bends. With all of the cables tensioned so that none are slack, set up RD1 (1/8" / 3.2mm cable) to 356 lbs or 20% of it's nominal breaking strength of 1780 pounds. This should be about 26 on the PT-1 professional Loos Gage. Set D1, D2, and V1 (5/32 / 4mm cable) to 560 lbs or 20% of nominal breaking strength of 2800 pounds. This will be about 37 on the Loos Gage. Questions check with Hunter. Also, This and more information on the H260 rigging is in the Manual and at this link: http://kobernus.com/hunter260/rigging/rigging.html
Rig Tunning
Rig tunning is not a black art but it must be done correctly. The headstay is ONLY adjusted for rake settings, NOTHING else!! Headstay tension is derived from the shrouds and/or backstay tension. Rake is adjusted with the shrouds and backstay loose and set typically at 1-1.5% of mast height. Example: a 30' mast would have a rake of about 5". This can be adjusted for prevailing wind conditions. In typically lighter air the rake should be increased, in heavier air (12+ kts) the rake should be decreased. The Loos gauge has a scale on it to aid in the proper shroud tension. If leeward shrouds go loose on a reach they need adjusting to remove the slack.
Rig tunning is not a black art but it must be done correctly. The headstay is ONLY adjusted for rake settings, NOTHING else!! Headstay tension is derived from the shrouds and/or backstay tension. Rake is adjusted with the shrouds and backstay loose and set typically at 1-1.5% of mast height. Example: a 30' mast would have a rake of about 5". This can be adjusted for prevailing wind conditions. In typically lighter air the rake should be increased, in heavier air (12+ kts) the rake should be decreased. The Loos gauge has a scale on it to aid in the proper shroud tension. If leeward shrouds go loose on a reach they need adjusting to remove the slack.
I suggest..
...after properly tunning the rig(note: make sure you get it right), draw a line parallel to the base plate on the mast. Then remove the mast and transfer the line as close to the base of the mast as you can. Cut or file the bottom of the mast along that new line. Now the mast will sit exactly square on its base. It is important to get the mast to sit square so that the mast is not point loaded but transfers the entire load over the whole mast section.
...after properly tunning the rig(note: make sure you get it right), draw a line parallel to the base plate on the mast. Then remove the mast and transfer the line as close to the base of the mast as you can. Cut or file the bottom of the mast along that new line. Now the mast will sit exactly square on its base. It is important to get the mast to sit square so that the mast is not point loaded but transfers the entire load over the whole mast section.
I have the following info
You don't indicate what boat, but on my H26… Tension - 10% for lowers and 20% for uppers. The breaking strength is 4700lbs. So, lowers 470 pounds, uppers to 940 pounds. I have found this is a bit to much as it tends to bend the deck hull seam upward, and with that much tension on the lowers, I can’t get the bent in the mast I need. I tend to tighten the uppers enough so that there is no sway in the forestay, then the lowers to give me the required mast bend. There is never any slack and a tension gauge is a must to get them equal side to side. While you doing all this, don’t forget to keep in mind the mast rake as well.
You don't indicate what boat, but on my H26… Tension - 10% for lowers and 20% for uppers. The breaking strength is 4700lbs. So, lowers 470 pounds, uppers to 940 pounds. I have found this is a bit to much as it tends to bend the deck hull seam upward, and with that much tension on the lowers, I can’t get the bent in the mast I need. I tend to tighten the uppers enough so that there is no sway in the forestay, then the lowers to give me the required mast bend. There is never any slack and a tension gauge is a must to get them equal side to side. While you doing all this, don’t forget to keep in mind the mast rake as well.
Tunning 260
Folks, I appreciate the great response. I've got a Loos gauge coming in the mail. George, I did the wrench test when I first got the boat in November. Everything seemed to be centered with the right rake. ALso, the boat is well centered on all points of sail in 10-12 kts wind. I'm really happy with sale balance and just a touch of weather helm. I've also been thinking about the forestay tension. With a three point shourd system, you'd think the forestay would always have about the same tension as the rest of the rig. It has to...just like a three legged stool has the same weight while sitting stable on the floor. I do have one more question. For those of you who have a proper tuned rig, how hard is it to pin the roller furling when raising mast. I don't have any great difficulty putting enough tension on the jib halyard to make pinning the forestay. I'll follow up on this post once I get the Loos gauge.
Folks, I appreciate the great response. I've got a Loos gauge coming in the mail. George, I did the wrench test when I first got the boat in November. Everything seemed to be centered with the right rake. ALso, the boat is well centered on all points of sail in 10-12 kts wind. I'm really happy with sale balance and just a touch of weather helm. I've also been thinking about the forestay tension. With a three point shourd system, you'd think the forestay would always have about the same tension as the rest of the rig. It has to...just like a three legged stool has the same weight while sitting stable on the floor. I do have one more question. For those of you who have a proper tuned rig, how hard is it to pin the roller furling when raising mast. I don't have any great difficulty putting enough tension on the jib halyard to make pinning the forestay. I'll follow up on this post once I get the Loos gauge.
Tuning 260 Rigging
George, You are truly a wonderful depository of knowledge and we're all lucky you take the time to share it with us. You just gave me the last piece of knowledge I think I need to get Acadia's rigging set up correctly. I would have never thought to look inside the drum for turnbuckle. So, do you think that after I raise the mast, I could loosen the shrouds and, using the jib halyard, make sure the mast is fully seated on the step. Once it seats flush, adjust the forestay to hold it there. Then adjust the shroud tension in accordance with the manuel? Man, I've got to get this set up right. It was too nice a day today here to let the boat sit in storage. Deucer
George, You are truly a wonderful depository of knowledge and we're all lucky you take the time to share it with us. You just gave me the last piece of knowledge I think I need to get Acadia's rigging set up correctly. I would have never thought to look inside the drum for turnbuckle. So, do you think that after I raise the mast, I could loosen the shrouds and, using the jib halyard, make sure the mast is fully seated on the step. Once it seats flush, adjust the forestay to hold it there. Then adjust the shroud tension in accordance with the manuel? Man, I've got to get this set up right. It was too nice a day today here to let the boat sit in storage. Deucer
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