I am new to sailing so pardon me if this is a dumb question. I complained to a friend that my 170 does not point well. He made a few quick adjustments to my standing rigging and the performance of the boat improved imeadiately. Then he said that I should get a "tuning guide" for the 170 that would help me make tweak it further. I have never even heard of a tuning guide, where do I get one????? or, Does anyone have any suggestions for tuning my rig???? Thanks, john kivel
- Status
Quick Adjustments?
What quick adjustments did your friend make? Was this while you were out sailing?
What quick adjustments did your friend make? Was this while you were out sailing?
adjustments at dock
The biggie was that he tightened the head stay (before we went sailing). I had it in the closest hole, he moved it to the middle, he said it might be better still in the furthest hole. Also, he replaced some of my hardware - like the shackle that connects the boom vang to the mast, which allows the boom vang to opperate better. After we went sailing he said he thinks the stantions are also too loose, but he didn't think we should tighten them until I could get hold of a tuning guide. Because tightening the fore-stay would also tighten the stantions he was not sure which would be better. In general, he said my rig was loose, and could still stand to be tighter. He has about 20 years of sailing experience, and as manager of a WestMarine store he has much experience helping other people rig thier sailboats. But he he lives in a "big boat" town, and tells me that he has very little experience on trailerable boats esp. daysailers. j
The biggie was that he tightened the head stay (before we went sailing). I had it in the closest hole, he moved it to the middle, he said it might be better still in the furthest hole. Also, he replaced some of my hardware - like the shackle that connects the boom vang to the mast, which allows the boom vang to opperate better. After we went sailing he said he thinks the stantions are also too loose, but he didn't think we should tighten them until I could get hold of a tuning guide. Because tightening the fore-stay would also tighten the stantions he was not sure which would be better. In general, he said my rig was loose, and could still stand to be tighter. He has about 20 years of sailing experience, and as manager of a WestMarine store he has much experience helping other people rig thier sailboats. But he he lives in a "big boat" town, and tells me that he has very little experience on trailerable boats esp. daysailers. j
Should shrouds be tightened first?
I'm curious about tightening the forestay by using a forward hole - it would seem like that would tip the mast forward slightly. Based on "typical" tuning, I instead tightened the upper shrouds slightly (would rake the mast aft, if at all). with the swept spreaders, this also can bow the mast (top aft slightly, middle of mast forward - an advantage) if the lower shrouds are adjusted properly. Of course, since the boat doesn't have turnbuckles, these adjustments cannot be done with the forestay pinned - it takes a few tries to get it right. I think I finally got it right this season. Seems to point very well, and the leeward shrouds aren't excessively loose like they were when the dealer performed the initial adjustments.
I'm curious about tightening the forestay by using a forward hole - it would seem like that would tip the mast forward slightly. Based on "typical" tuning, I instead tightened the upper shrouds slightly (would rake the mast aft, if at all). with the swept spreaders, this also can bow the mast (top aft slightly, middle of mast forward - an advantage) if the lower shrouds are adjusted properly. Of course, since the boat doesn't have turnbuckles, these adjustments cannot be done with the forestay pinned - it takes a few tries to get it right. I think I finally got it right this season. Seems to point very well, and the leeward shrouds aren't excessively loose like they were when the dealer performed the initial adjustments.
Any tricks on tightening the chain plates?
Bruce, I have noticed that the leeward shrouds get very loose on my 170. What tricks did you employ to get the shrouds tight enough using only the the chain plates? I have decided that this winter's project will be to replace the chain plates with shroud adjusters (all 4). I exclusively dry sail between outings, so I put my 170 together (and take it apart) quite a bit. I need an easily adjustable method and the shroud adjusters seem to be the only trick. If your method method meets this criteria, you could save me a couple hundred bucks!
Bruce, I have noticed that the leeward shrouds get very loose on my 170. What tricks did you employ to get the shrouds tight enough using only the the chain plates? I have decided that this winter's project will be to replace the chain plates with shroud adjusters (all 4). I exclusively dry sail between outings, so I put my 170 together (and take it apart) quite a bit. I need an easily adjustable method and the shroud adjusters seem to be the only trick. If your method method meets this criteria, you could save me a couple hundred bucks!
My factory hardware works fine
Rusty - I also keep my boat in my driveway, and the factory shroud hardware seems to work fine. I apologize in advance for the long explanation: To initially set the shroud tension, I set the mast up like normal, but I also tie a bowline in the end of the topping lift and connect it to the bow using the boom vang. This is also how I put up the mast by myself - I've put snap shackles on the boom vang to make the set-up faster. Then: - with forestay connected, determine which shroud(s) need to be tightened - tighten the topping lift / boom vang enough to allow the forestay to be disconnected, then loosen the boom vang just enough to allow sufficient slack in the shrouds to tighten them (move the pin into a lower hole). Obviously, only disconnect one shroud at a time (the other 3 and the topping lift will keep the mast up). - re-attach the forestay (using the boom vang to pull the mast forward). - repeat as necessary until you are satisfied with the shroud tension. Start with the lower shrouds relatively slack and tighten the uppers. If you get the uppers too tight, you will be unable to easily pin the forestay - I can still disconnect the forestay while pulling down fairly hard on the furling drum. I only had to move the shrouds down 1-2 holes each. Then, tighten the lowers until they are no longer slack (no longer flapping), but not too tight, since they will then pull aft on the middle of the mast (bowing it aft in the middle - will adversely affect performance and will make the forestay too tight). The lower adjustment took me a couple of outings to complete - I had to observe the shrouds while sailing close-hauled, then make further adjustments before the next outing. One dealer told me that the original tension (flapping shrouds) was fine - could be, I'm not an expert. But, I was taught differently and find it disconcerting to see the shrouds hanging limp. Sorry that this is an unexact approach, but it worked for me. The only disadvantage is that the shrouds are just slightly too short to allow me to drop the mast base / pin into the tabernackle while the mast is still resting on the aft crutch (the shrouds hold the mast slightly forward when down). I have to lift the back / top of the mast up about a foot off of the crutch and pull aft to do this. But, once the base is in the tabernackle, the mast can be lowered back into the crutch so that you can climb into the boat to complete the mast raising.
Rusty - I also keep my boat in my driveway, and the factory shroud hardware seems to work fine. I apologize in advance for the long explanation: To initially set the shroud tension, I set the mast up like normal, but I also tie a bowline in the end of the topping lift and connect it to the bow using the boom vang. This is also how I put up the mast by myself - I've put snap shackles on the boom vang to make the set-up faster. Then: - with forestay connected, determine which shroud(s) need to be tightened - tighten the topping lift / boom vang enough to allow the forestay to be disconnected, then loosen the boom vang just enough to allow sufficient slack in the shrouds to tighten them (move the pin into a lower hole). Obviously, only disconnect one shroud at a time (the other 3 and the topping lift will keep the mast up). - re-attach the forestay (using the boom vang to pull the mast forward). - repeat as necessary until you are satisfied with the shroud tension. Start with the lower shrouds relatively slack and tighten the uppers. If you get the uppers too tight, you will be unable to easily pin the forestay - I can still disconnect the forestay while pulling down fairly hard on the furling drum. I only had to move the shrouds down 1-2 holes each. Then, tighten the lowers until they are no longer slack (no longer flapping), but not too tight, since they will then pull aft on the middle of the mast (bowing it aft in the middle - will adversely affect performance and will make the forestay too tight). The lower adjustment took me a couple of outings to complete - I had to observe the shrouds while sailing close-hauled, then make further adjustments before the next outing. One dealer told me that the original tension (flapping shrouds) was fine - could be, I'm not an expert. But, I was taught differently and find it disconcerting to see the shrouds hanging limp. Sorry that this is an unexact approach, but it worked for me. The only disadvantage is that the shrouds are just slightly too short to allow me to drop the mast base / pin into the tabernackle while the mast is still resting on the aft crutch (the shrouds hold the mast slightly forward when down). I have to lift the back / top of the mast up about a foot off of the crutch and pull aft to do this. But, once the base is in the tabernackle, the mast can be lowered back into the crutch so that you can climb into the boat to complete the mast raising.
Yes I did
Yes, I did buy my 170 from Midwest Sailing, and for the record I am sure it was tuned properly when they delivered it. The first couple times I put it on the trailer it took me HOURS to put it back together. I am much better at it now, but I want to make sure I am doing things correctly. j
Yes, I did buy my 170 from Midwest Sailing, and for the record I am sure it was tuned properly when they delivered it. The first couple times I put it on the trailer it took me HOURS to put it back together. I am much better at it now, but I want to make sure I am doing things correctly. j
Sounds a little like my experience
the fact that my manual consisted of photocopied pages that were out of order and missing some pages didn't help, but I eventually got the hang of things. By and large, my experience with Midwest Sailing was positive, although I got some bad advice when asking about a cover...I was told to get a cheap tarp from the hardware store. Fortunately, I read this forum and talked to a couple-dozen 170 owners before my purchase so I was able to get the correct cover. We also took lessons from a great gal at Midwest who got us off on the right foot.
the fact that my manual consisted of photocopied pages that were out of order and missing some pages didn't help, but I eventually got the hang of things. By and large, my experience with Midwest Sailing was positive, although I got some bad advice when asking about a cover...I was told to get a cheap tarp from the hardware store. Fortunately, I read this forum and talked to a couple-dozen 170 owners before my purchase so I was able to get the correct cover. We also took lessons from a great gal at Midwest who got us off on the right foot.
lessons from Lisa?
Was your teacher Lisa? She is great. Are you the guy with the pretty new shiny 170 berthed three slips down from my scratchy 5 year old 170 at the portage yacht club?? Strange that I would meet you on-line, I have shouted to you a couple times on the lake. Maybe we should meet for a cold beverage at the club. john
Was your teacher Lisa? She is great. Are you the guy with the pretty new shiny 170 berthed three slips down from my scratchy 5 year old 170 at the portage yacht club?? Strange that I would meet you on-line, I have shouted to you a couple times on the lake. Maybe we should meet for a cold beverage at the club. john
Yes and no
Yep, we took lessons from Lisa. She was absolutely super. A great person and a great teacher. Our whole family learned a lot from her. But no, we don't belong to the Portage Yacht Club as we reside about an hour away. I must admit, though, that when we were buying our boat last year and taking lessons I don't remember seeing another 170 docked at the club or even on the lake. Lots of Flying Scots, etc., but no Hunters.
Yep, we took lessons from Lisa. She was absolutely super. A great person and a great teacher. Our whole family learned a lot from her. But no, we don't belong to the Portage Yacht Club as we reside about an hour away. I must admit, though, that when we were buying our boat last year and taking lessons I don't remember seeing another 170 docked at the club or even on the lake. Lots of Flying Scots, etc., but no Hunters.
they race flying scots
The race class at PYC is Flying Scott / Interlake. They also race Sunfish. I have no interest in racing, and I wanted something a little more easily trailerable, so I went with the 170. There were no other 170s on the lake at the beginning of the summer, but one showed up about mid July. j
The race class at PYC is Flying Scott / Interlake. They also race Sunfish. I have no interest in racing, and I wanted something a little more easily trailerable, so I went with the 170. There were no other 170s on the lake at the beginning of the summer, but one showed up about mid July. j
- Status