Well folks, Finally got out to tune the rigging on my H260. George, thanks for the info on your site. A couple of things I found. 1. I've got a Charleston Spar Mast. Sighting down the mast, there is a built in aft rake. Probably 6 inches or more. 2. My D2 shrouds don't have a turnbuckle to adjust the tension. I'm assuming that as I adjust the lower shrouds, the D2 shrouds will tighten up. 3. I don't have the rubber thingees where the shourds come out of mast. Mine are all stainless steel. 4. My step appears to be different from the one on Georges web sight. 5. I noticed when I'd raise the mast, that it would sometimes twist. I figured out that hole in the mast where the mast pin goes through was 3X as large as the pin. That allowed the twist. I'm planning to put in a piece of reinforced rubber hose in the hole to serve as a flexible sleeve (just like the holes in the step) 6. Another clue that I don't have an original mast is the fact that I can't tune to the required tension. V1 on both sides max out the turnbuckles before I get to 37 on the Loos gauge. Guess I'll have to have a rigger shorten the shrouds...more money..sigh.. I also built the PVC roller furling holder I saw in the improvement sections. Seems to work like a champ. I think it's going to speed up stowing the mast. I also plan on making Sunbrella bags for the halyards to protect them from the elements. I'll post pictues. Think that's it. Any comments? Deucer
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Is the mast a stock length?
The side stays should be the same/orig length if the mast was replaced. Or maybe the distance from the base to the spreaders wasn't spec original when it was changed. I don't think the compression post can substatially compress downward on these boats or I'd be aiming at that. The other issue to watch for is over tightening the stays, pulling the hull/deck joint out of line. When I sight down the rub rail the stay connectors are slightly pulled up at the deck/hull connection. Any more than a slight rise under a static load would give me cause for concern when under a full load. On the other hand, slack in a leeward shroud under sail is a serious no-no too. Georges' assembled info is too convienient. Much thanks goes out to his effort. Just a couple thoughts. Have a great time sailing. Michael
The side stays should be the same/orig length if the mast was replaced. Or maybe the distance from the base to the spreaders wasn't spec original when it was changed. I don't think the compression post can substatially compress downward on these boats or I'd be aiming at that. The other issue to watch for is over tightening the stays, pulling the hull/deck joint out of line. When I sight down the rub rail the stay connectors are slightly pulled up at the deck/hull connection. Any more than a slight rise under a static load would give me cause for concern when under a full load. On the other hand, slack in a leeward shroud under sail is a serious no-no too. Georges' assembled info is too convienient. Much thanks goes out to his effort. Just a couple thoughts. Have a great time sailing. Michael
H260 Rigging
Deucer: 1. I have a US Spars Mast. It has the normal 6" curve. If you had a conventional spar the rake would be controlled by the back stay. Over the years Hunter has used different sources for their spars - My suggestion is to contact Hunter to see if this is one of the companies they used or the PO replaced the original spar with a non-standard product. If this is the case, I'd be very careful using the numbers cited in my website since they assume the stays are Hackensack 316 Stainless Steel 1/8" (3.2mm) 1X19 cable and 5/32" (4mm) 1X19 cable. If the PO has substituted something different all bets are off. Stays are relatively cheap, so in doubt, just replace them. A call/e-mail to US Spars might also be wise (They'll probably refer you to Secco South another very responsive company). I've found them both to be very responsive. US Spars http://www.usspars.com/ Seco South 2111 34th Way Largo, FL 33771 Attn: Jean (727) 536-1924 Hunter Customer Service (800) 771-5556 customerservice@huntermarine.com You might want to measure the stays to see if the lengths match the manual. Go to: http://www.ayesail.net/sailing/Hunter/ManualH260/images/Descrip_46B.jpg (Many thanks to Jim Seamans for this valuable resource.) If you don't have confidence in the Loose Gage method maybe a professional rigger would help - One experienced rigger said he makes initial adjustments by feel (Guitar string tight)and then refines the adjustment by observation under sail. Once you get the spar up and have an equal tension on each side in the slip (using the Loos Gage) you can adjust the stays based on observation under sail. Do it very gradually - One or two turns on each side until you're comfortable with the tension. Make sure you keep track of the number of turns on each side. 2. You are correct D2 has no adjustments 3. The purpose of the rubber plugs is to keep the toggle bolt from slipping out - if you have something else that does the same thing I would not be concerned. 4 & 5. The fact that the spar step is different concerns me. I'd take pics so we can all compare. Also, Hunter is a good source on this. Feel free to contact me directly. I don't know squat about rigging but am willing to share experiences.
Deucer: 1. I have a US Spars Mast. It has the normal 6" curve. If you had a conventional spar the rake would be controlled by the back stay. Over the years Hunter has used different sources for their spars - My suggestion is to contact Hunter to see if this is one of the companies they used or the PO replaced the original spar with a non-standard product. If this is the case, I'd be very careful using the numbers cited in my website since they assume the stays are Hackensack 316 Stainless Steel 1/8" (3.2mm) 1X19 cable and 5/32" (4mm) 1X19 cable. If the PO has substituted something different all bets are off. Stays are relatively cheap, so in doubt, just replace them. A call/e-mail to US Spars might also be wise (They'll probably refer you to Secco South another very responsive company). I've found them both to be very responsive. US Spars http://www.usspars.com/ Seco South 2111 34th Way Largo, FL 33771 Attn: Jean (727) 536-1924 Hunter Customer Service (800) 771-5556 customerservice@huntermarine.com You might want to measure the stays to see if the lengths match the manual. Go to: http://www.ayesail.net/sailing/Hunter/ManualH260/images/Descrip_46B.jpg (Many thanks to Jim Seamans for this valuable resource.) If you don't have confidence in the Loose Gage method maybe a professional rigger would help - One experienced rigger said he makes initial adjustments by feel (Guitar string tight)and then refines the adjustment by observation under sail. Once you get the spar up and have an equal tension on each side in the slip (using the Loos Gage) you can adjust the stays based on observation under sail. Do it very gradually - One or two turns on each side until you're comfortable with the tension. Make sure you keep track of the number of turns on each side. 2. You are correct D2 has no adjustments 3. The purpose of the rubber plugs is to keep the toggle bolt from slipping out - if you have something else that does the same thing I would not be concerned. 4 & 5. The fact that the spar step is different concerns me. I'd take pics so we can all compare. Also, Hunter is a good source on this. Feel free to contact me directly. I don't know squat about rigging but am willing to share experiences.
Tuning H260 Rigging
Folks, Thanks for the advice. I think the Loos gauge is in the ball park. The shroud tension, while MUCH better, doesn't seem as tight as the charter boats I used sail. I know some of the turnbuckles have been replaced by the PO (one, they're not all the same, and two, the old ones came in the tool box with the boat). So, I've probably got a fair chance that the shrouds were replaced at some time, too. Micheal, I didn't think to site down the rub rail to see if there's any deformation. I'll look next time I'm over at the boat. I'll also take pictures of the step. I'm thinking that if I need to shorten a shroud, Quick Attach makes a pretty convienent non-swage turnbuckle that might do the trick. I do have another question..imagine that. If I loosen the lower shrouds, what will happen to D2? I assume D1's tension is maintained by D1 and RD1. I'm anxious to take Acadia out to see if the new tuning makes a difference. I'll keep everyone postes. Deucer
Folks, Thanks for the advice. I think the Loos gauge is in the ball park. The shroud tension, while MUCH better, doesn't seem as tight as the charter boats I used sail. I know some of the turnbuckles have been replaced by the PO (one, they're not all the same, and two, the old ones came in the tool box with the boat). So, I've probably got a fair chance that the shrouds were replaced at some time, too. Micheal, I didn't think to site down the rub rail to see if there's any deformation. I'll look next time I'm over at the boat. I'll also take pictures of the step. I'm thinking that if I need to shorten a shroud, Quick Attach makes a pretty convienent non-swage turnbuckle that might do the trick. I do have another question..imagine that. If I loosen the lower shrouds, what will happen to D2? I assume D1's tension is maintained by D1 and RD1. I'm anxious to take Acadia out to see if the new tuning makes a difference. I'll keep everyone postes. Deucer
Tuning H260 Rigging
George, I was just reviting your site when I couldn't resist going to the bad stuff. Just so happens that you have a very good picture of your step with the gin pole installed for mast raising. Yep, mine is totally different. I'll have to post pictures. Yours looks sturdier, but my has the halyards running out of sheeves at the bottom of the mast. Um......... Deucer
George, I was just reviting your site when I couldn't resist going to the bad stuff. Just so happens that you have a very good picture of your step with the gin pole installed for mast raising. Yep, mine is totally different. I'll have to post pictures. Yours looks sturdier, but my has the halyards running out of sheeves at the bottom of the mast. Um......... Deucer
260 differences
Deucer, I have a 1998 260 that came originally with a charleston spar mast. It had 2 small sheaves in the bottom for each halyard, side struts for raising the mast, and the loose hinge pin like you describe. The gin pole doesn't insert into the mast, it has it's own hinge pin just in front of the mast. I like this much better because you can adjust the angle of the gin pole to the mast back slightly while raising the mast. this gives you more room between the pole and the bow when the mast is up. I bought some nylon rod the same size as the pivot hinge hole for the mast and plate and drilled it out to the pin diameter making a bushing. That took the slop out of the hinge and eliminated the twist. I trailer everytime I sail and installed a sheave on the bow pulpit and use the trailer winch to raise and lower the mast. This is MUCH easier than using the mainsheet. I can raise and lower with 2 fingers and stop at any point in the process to straighten out whatever without worrying about something letting go. I had a close encounter of the worst kind similar to Georges and had to replace the mast. The replacement is a US spar with the halyards exiting the mast about 3-4 feet above the bottom of the mast and single sheaves at the base of the mast to turn the halyards to the deck organizers. This setup has less friction when using the halyards. The boom, reefing system, and topping lift are all different. Apparently there are many variations of the 260 mast and rigging depending on the stock on hand at the time of construction. Another thing to look at is the hull to deck joint. When I dismasted it popped the deck joint open at the bow back to the shroud U bolts. When it was repaired the dealer installed stainless bolts every 6 inches under the rub rail. Hunter started doing this from the factory with 2000 and later 260's. The earlier ones didn't come with through bolts in the joint, just 5200. You should look at this and if your boat doesn't have them you should consider installing them.
Deucer, I have a 1998 260 that came originally with a charleston spar mast. It had 2 small sheaves in the bottom for each halyard, side struts for raising the mast, and the loose hinge pin like you describe. The gin pole doesn't insert into the mast, it has it's own hinge pin just in front of the mast. I like this much better because you can adjust the angle of the gin pole to the mast back slightly while raising the mast. this gives you more room between the pole and the bow when the mast is up. I bought some nylon rod the same size as the pivot hinge hole for the mast and plate and drilled it out to the pin diameter making a bushing. That took the slop out of the hinge and eliminated the twist. I trailer everytime I sail and installed a sheave on the bow pulpit and use the trailer winch to raise and lower the mast. This is MUCH easier than using the mainsheet. I can raise and lower with 2 fingers and stop at any point in the process to straighten out whatever without worrying about something letting go. I had a close encounter of the worst kind similar to Georges and had to replace the mast. The replacement is a US spar with the halyards exiting the mast about 3-4 feet above the bottom of the mast and single sheaves at the base of the mast to turn the halyards to the deck organizers. This setup has less friction when using the halyards. The boom, reefing system, and topping lift are all different. Apparently there are many variations of the 260 mast and rigging depending on the stock on hand at the time of construction. Another thing to look at is the hull to deck joint. When I dismasted it popped the deck joint open at the bow back to the shroud U bolts. When it was repaired the dealer installed stainless bolts every 6 inches under the rub rail. Hunter started doing this from the factory with 2000 and later 260's. The earlier ones didn't come with through bolts in the joint, just 5200. You should look at this and if your boat doesn't have them you should consider installing them.
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