troubled waters

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Oct 16, 2008
184
hunteer 23.5 st lawerence
Read this recently and has the entire area concerned with future boating on our river. Did not know that a fishing pole with a sinker on it is considered a boat at anchor and therefore required to report to candian customs of your arrival????????
A fisherman's got to know his limitations. And the same now apparently goes for every other boater on the St. Lawrence River who may accidentally drift into Canadian waters.
Roy M. Anderson, a seasonal resident of Thousand Island Park, found out May 30 that long-held notions of where it's OK for United States citizens to fish no longer apply. While fishing a favorite spot in the Gananoque Narrows with a friend, his boat was boarded and then "seized" by Canadian Border Services Agency officers.
"I was dumbfounded," Mr. Anderson, 22, Baldwinsville, said. "My dad's 67 years old and he's fished there his whole life without a problem."
According to Mr. Anderson, officers came aboard his boat and checked his $83 Canadian fishing license, which he always carries, and checked for outstanding criminal warrants, of which there were none. Trouble started when Mr. Anderson was asked if he had reported his presence in Canada at a port of entry, which he had not. At the time, he was less than a quarter-mile into Canadian waters.

"I was told, 'If you are in Canadian waters, you should be running toward a port of entry. If you're not running toward a port of entry, you are in violation of the law,'" he said.
Mr. Anderson, who fishes the narrows daily in the summer, said he had been checked previously by Ontario Provincial Police and Canadian game wardens and was always left with the impression that, as long as he was not anchored or otherwise on shore, he was doing nothing illegal.
This time, his boat was searched for contraband and seized and he was told that it would cost him $1,000 to get it back. If he could not immediately come up with the money, he would be placed in handcuffs and made to lie on his stomach while his boat was towed to shore in Canada, where he could face a fine of up to $25,000 under the Canadian Customs Act.
"I had to pay it on the spot," Mr. Anderson said. "They seized my boat and I had to buy it back on the spot."
The Canadian Customs Act states that penalties "shall become payable on the day the notice of assessment of the penalty is served on the person." It also gives border agents the authority to seize a boat "as forfeit."
Chris J. Kealey, a spokesman for the Canadian Border Services Agency, said if the penalty is not able to be paid on the water, "the alternative is they can seize the vessel pending payment of the penalty."
Mr. Anderson said that his boat is old and "not worth much," so "I was thinking about letting them just take it." After a phone call to his father, Michael, he agreed to pay the money using a credit card.
"Usually I don't have my wallet with me out there," he said. "Thank God I had a credit card with enough on it so I could get my boat back."
Sean R. Magers, a spokesman for Rep. William L. Owens, D-Plattsburgh, said the congressman has been made aware of Mr. Anderson's plight and has "reached out" to the Canadian Embassy on the matter.
Mr. Magers said the congressman's interpretation of the statute involved exempts fishermen, as it states that it does not apply to a person entering Canadian waters "directly from one place outside of Canada to another place outside of Canada."
David A. McCrea, a charter captain out of Henderson who fishes frequently in Canada, said "there's no rhyme nor reason" to be found in the enforcement of the Canadian fishing and boating regulations. He said calls to the border agency's Canadian Passenger Accelerated Service System, or CANPASS, which is designed to expedite the customs and immigration process, rarely provides a satisfactory answer as to what is and isn't allowed.
"You call that number five times and get five different answers," he said. "You just keep calling back until you get the answer you're looking for and then you get that guy's badge number."
Russell A. Finehout, a Clayton fishing guide, said he has had a Canadian fishing license for 55 years and it has always been a general rule among guides and other fishermen that if you had a license and weren't anchored, you could fish in Canadian waters without declaring your presence to customs.
"I've never been stopped by Canadian customs in all my years of fishing and I'm 74 years' old," he said.
Mr. Finehout said he recently visited the Canadian customs office at Landsdowne, Ontario, and was told that American fishermen are expected to report into the country at points in either Gananoque, Ivy Lea or Rockport.
"That makes it pretty much impossible for us to fish because of the time wasted going all the way over there to check in and then back to where you want to fish. That's a couple hours wasted, plus the extra expense for the gas."
Mr. Finehout said he was also told at the meeting that the rules apply not just to fishermen, but to all boaters, even people who unwittingly drift into Canadian waters without realizing they have crossed the international border.
"They don't want us to go over there. It's quite apparent to me," he said. "It'll be the last time I buy a Canadian fishing license."
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Sounds like a pure case of government gone mad. Same sort of crap as Homeland Security at airports in the US. Just think of the wasted money and time at airports. And think about how many terrorists they've caught this way!! ....what a joke.
 
Jun 28, 2009
312
hunter 23 Lake Hefner
Truly sad... I hope he gets a refund and an appology. Of course, nothing will ever come of any "reaching out". Our fine neighbor to the north just needs a little quid pro quo.
 
Mar 2, 2011
489
Compac 14 Charleston, SC
Typical government over-reaching. I hope he contacts local and national news about this.
 
Oct 16, 2008
184
hunteer 23.5 st lawerence
Yes its in the papers as well as tv. Ive never had an issue with the ont police but then again Ive never seen them hassle / board a sailboat.I watch them speed by and go after the loud cig boats and jetski's. hope its not a sign of things to come as my entire vacation is planned and dates set to be in canadian waters throughout the whole trip. I will definetly have documentaion verifying where I'm headed to and coming from in hopes theres no delays and or confiscations of my boat. They'll have to drag me kicking and screaming ,,,,or just taze me once I guess :p
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
I think this is an unusual situation given the number of boats from both countries crossing back and forth day to day. It is too bad this occured. I do have to wonder if we have all the "facts" ?
There has been a change in the officers at Canadian Border Services. The older ones are taking an early retirement as they do not want to be armed, the young ones being hired are a different breed and one big attraction is the gun and with it they bring an attitude. I'm not antigun and in fact own a half dozen myself. Just an observation I have made over the past few years.
None of what happened to this boater is government policy, it was made up on the fly by the individual. Front line workers get no guidelines from the bureaucrats. I worked for 34 years enforcing federal legislation and regulations and usually you are on your own, if you make a mistake it your neck not the managers that is on the line.
My experience with US and Canada border crossings has been similar, rules and policy seems to change with who you talk to, never getting the same answer twice.
Always a good idea to have all your paperwork in order dealing with these guys. If things start to get tight ask to speak with a supervisor.
Bob
 
Oct 16, 2008
184
hunteer 23.5 st lawerence
Guess the canadians were withing their rights to do what they did,,,,scary thought


WASHINGTON - The State Department said Tuesday that Canadian border officers had the law on their side when they seized an American fisherman's boat and fined him $1,000 for fishing in Canadian waters without registering at customs.
In fact, they could have made him pay more, the department said.
In a statement, the State Department said the Canadian Border Services Agency was acting within "long standing regulations" by penalizing Roy M. Anderson, the Thousand Island Park resident who was snagged by Canadian officers while fishing, unanchored, in a favorite spot in the Gananoque Narrows.
All foreign boaters must report to Canadian authorities upon arrival in Canadian waters regardless of whether they anchor their boats, the State Department said, echoing the Canadian government's position. North country boaters have long been under the impression that they did not have to report unless they anchored.

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But the only exception, according to the State Department, is for boaters traveling through Canadian waters from one U.S. point to another - and without stopping along the way.
In replying to questions about the issue, the State Department and the Canadian Border Services Agency each forwarded a document outlining the Canadian policy, spelling out what sort of trips do not require reporting.
"In-transit movement must be continuous, uninterrupted and without delays or stop-overs. Such movement could be for reasons of the shortest route, requirement of deep waters, evading obstacles such as bridges, etc.," the document states.
A spokesman at the State Department's Office of Western Hemisphere Affairs, Charles E. Luoma-Overstreet, said in a statement, "We understand that this case was handled consistent with long standing regulations. We refer you to Canadian authorities for further information."
The State Department's backing of the Canadians' approach comes as Rep. William L. Owens, D-Plattsburgh, challenges the CBSA's interpretation of the law and after New York officials asked the CBSA to refund Mr. Anderson his $1,000.
Mr. Owens has also been working with Canadian officials in Washington to clarify the policy and to explore whether the registration requirement stated by Canadian officials can be eased, said the congressman's spokesman, Sean Magers.
Although north country boaters have believed for years that they could venture into Canadian waters without reporting to authorities - as long as they do not set anchor or tie up to a dock - the Canadians have taken a firm position that the impression is wrong.
The approach Canada has asserted since the incident with Mr. Anderson is that boaters who stop to float or fish must follow the same rules as those who go to Canada by recreational boat, dock and come ashore to shop or go to dinner, for instance.
And while boaters may check in with Canadian authorities by phone at 1-888-226-7277, they must use a CBSA telephone on land to do so.
Those phones are located at some marinas and other locations, although in practice anglers might have to go out of their way to comply.
The call-in center runs 24 hours a day, seven days a week, Mr. Luoma-Overstreet said.
Reporting requirements have become familiar to residents who visit Canadian towns or simply stop by a friend's house on a nearby island in Canada, said Jennifer Caddick, executive director of Save the River, the environmental group in Clayton. But applying those rules to people who never intended to come ashore has people "scratching their heads" about what they thought the rules were and how the policy works in practice, she said.
Northern New York is not the only place where anglers will have to pay closer attention to the border - if they know where it is on the water.
Boaters on the St. Mary's River, near Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., and the city by the same name in Ontario, can easily find themselves on either side of the border.
A fishing charter captain there, Travis M. White, said in a telephone interview Tuesday that the understanding among boaters on the St. Mary's is that "as long as you're not anchored, you're not on Canadian soil."
Mr. White said he heard rumors last season that Canada might tighten enforcement along the river, but told of Mr. Anderson's experience, he said, "We haven't had any issues like that."
 
Mar 2, 2011
489
Compac 14 Charleston, SC
They need to just stop buying Canadian fishing license and fish in US waters. Money talks don't you think?
 
Oct 16, 2008
184
hunteer 23.5 st lawerence
Ok we've figured it all out up here with the border / boating issue

Dear Canada,
You're not getting the Stanley Cup back no matter how many fishermen you capture and ramson.
 
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