We've recently purchased a Catalina 30 after many years of chartering 34 and 36 foot Catalinas. My slip is directly across the prevaling breeze and not far from the leeward end of the fairway (there are two slips between ours and the solid leeward end). I used to think I was good at maneuvering under power, but backing out with a good cross-wind breeze these days has been a real problem. As I back out, I usually just back out and down to Port (the direction the stern prefers when in reverse), put the helm over, gun the throttle and am able to spin the boat to Stbd and head out of the fairway. However, when any breeze is blowing, I back out and the bow immediately falls off to leeward faster than I can correct for (even using all the "spin in place" or "torque turns" that normally work). No matter how I try, the bow just will not come up into the wind as fast as needed. Any hints on how best to get out without damaging our boat or others? I'm familiar with using the normal prop walk to help get the boat spinning. It just doesn't work in this situation with the breeze up. My guesses as to how to get out properly involve maybe backing out and backing to stbd, followed by backing all the way up the fairway (into the breeze stern first). I suppose I could also back into the slip at the end of the day, then just head out for subsequent sailing days. Getting in is not a problem, it's only getting out when there is a good breeze. I'm interested in hearing from other Catalina 30 owners who may have found a solution (aside from the obvious one of changing marinas and finding an into-the-wind-slip). All suggestions welcome. Gary Kunkel Folie a Deux Channel Islands Harbor
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Use the lines
You don't mention what's on your leeward side (finger dock, piling?) but if there is a piling, or a cleat near the end of the finger dock, you might try doubling your stern line around it and backing down on the line. That is, leave the line secured to your stern cleat, lead it around the dock cleat or piling, and back to your boat. As you back out, let the line run until you are ready to turn and then snug it tightly while backing hard...that should spring your bow up to windward. When you're ready to go foward, drop the free end of the line and recover it by pulling in the side on your stern cleat (quickly so you don't foul your prop!) Alternatively, you may be able to run the line around just one horn of the cleat and recover it by flipping it off sideways. Clearly, this is something to practice in light winds so you understand it before attempting it in stronger breezes. Also in really heavy wind, you may just do better backing down the fairway. I think Chapman's has a nice description of this use of spring lines, although I don't have a copy in front of me right now.
You don't mention what's on your leeward side (finger dock, piling?) but if there is a piling, or a cleat near the end of the finger dock, you might try doubling your stern line around it and backing down on the line. That is, leave the line secured to your stern cleat, lead it around the dock cleat or piling, and back to your boat. As you back out, let the line run until you are ready to turn and then snug it tightly while backing hard...that should spring your bow up to windward. When you're ready to go foward, drop the free end of the line and recover it by pulling in the side on your stern cleat (quickly so you don't foul your prop!) Alternatively, you may be able to run the line around just one horn of the cleat and recover it by flipping it off sideways. Clearly, this is something to practice in light winds so you understand it before attempting it in stronger breezes. Also in really heavy wind, you may just do better backing down the fairway. I think Chapman's has a nice description of this use of spring lines, although I don't have a copy in front of me right now.
Docking strategies
He Gary - I can appreciate your predicament, and you've done a good job of considering different methods. I also understand that without water moving over the rudder from a stopped position, the prop walk is more pronounced and the windage on the bow is difficult to compensate for. Colin has some good ideas regarding using spring lines. I don't know how much room you have on the windward side, but running a spring from mid-ship aft might work. Use the engine in forward to push your bow into the dock and the stern out, then gun the engine in reverse to back away from the leeward pier. Let us know how you make out! Trevor
He Gary - I can appreciate your predicament, and you've done a good job of considering different methods. I also understand that without water moving over the rudder from a stopped position, the prop walk is more pronounced and the windage on the bow is difficult to compensate for. Colin has some good ideas regarding using spring lines. I don't know how much room you have on the windward side, but running a spring from mid-ship aft might work. Use the engine in forward to push your bow into the dock and the stern out, then gun the engine in reverse to back away from the leeward pier. Let us know how you make out! Trevor
I think I had similar problem...
...with my 27. The way I'm reading your problem is that the bow starts swinging back toward the dock before you can get enough steerage to turn it into the wind. This is caused by the wind coming over the aft quarter and pushing against the bow while you are trying to change direction. The solution is not to use dock lines to turn the boat. That keeps you too near the dock that you're trying to clear. You aren't having trouble turning the boat in reverse down wind, you are having trouble keeping it from falling off before you can get under way, right? So instead, when backing out, wait till you get completely to the other side of the fairway before starting your direction change maneuver. This will give you some room to work with. Go all the way across as close to the other boats as you can, swing the rudder quickly to pivot the boat with momentum, then reverse the rudder to stop the swing as you change to forward gear. Having the main up will help the boat turn into the wind. If you can't get it hoisted at the dock safely have your crew start hoisting as soon as possible. Remember the boom will swing out till the sail luffs, so watch out for pilings when leaving the slip. In a nutshell...... don't start turning too soon!
...with my 27. The way I'm reading your problem is that the bow starts swinging back toward the dock before you can get enough steerage to turn it into the wind. This is caused by the wind coming over the aft quarter and pushing against the bow while you are trying to change direction. The solution is not to use dock lines to turn the boat. That keeps you too near the dock that you're trying to clear. You aren't having trouble turning the boat in reverse down wind, you are having trouble keeping it from falling off before you can get under way, right? So instead, when backing out, wait till you get completely to the other side of the fairway before starting your direction change maneuver. This will give you some room to work with. Go all the way across as close to the other boats as you can, swing the rudder quickly to pivot the boat with momentum, then reverse the rudder to stop the swing as you change to forward gear. Having the main up will help the boat turn into the wind. If you can't get it hoisted at the dock safely have your crew start hoisting as soon as possible. Remember the boom will swing out till the sail luffs, so watch out for pilings when leaving the slip. In a nutshell...... don't start turning too soon!
Some good advice...
...so far. I have a C-27, so my windage is different, but somewhat proportional to yours. Personally, I am a big fan of reverse. I reverse down my fairway as often as I use forward gear. Don't know why though
If you prefer to exit the fairway bow first (and who could blame you, especially at night), remember that the wind is not your enemy. Take its force and use it to your advantage. Allow it to swing the bow back away from the wind as you back out. Increase your speed to about 2.5 knots (higher in strong winds). Then, cut your throttle, and immediately swing the rudder hard to port (direction of reverse walk). As the boat rotates on its keel, she should run out of steam just as the nose is about 30 degrees off the wind. At this point, or slightly before, reverse rudder to full opposite stop and administer a healthy dose of throttle. The comination of slow speed, prop walk, and full rudder deflection of prop wash will bring your nose smartly into the wind. You can perform this manuever as soon as you reach the appropriate speed. I try to remember that speed equals control. The last thing I want is to be eeking along with little or no headway in a strong wind. I'm figuring that by allowing the wind to push your bow out, you will not be fighting it, and the boat will accelerate quicker, and give you more positive control sooner. Once you have the speed, you are free to do what you wish. Let us know how you make out! Rob
...so far. I have a C-27, so my windage is different, but somewhat proportional to yours. Personally, I am a big fan of reverse. I reverse down my fairway as often as I use forward gear. Don't know why though
If you prefer to exit the fairway bow first (and who could blame you, especially at night), remember that the wind is not your enemy. Take its force and use it to your advantage. Allow it to swing the bow back away from the wind as you back out. Increase your speed to about 2.5 knots (higher in strong winds). Then, cut your throttle, and immediately swing the rudder hard to port (direction of reverse walk). As the boat rotates on its keel, she should run out of steam just as the nose is about 30 degrees off the wind. At this point, or slightly before, reverse rudder to full opposite stop and administer a healthy dose of throttle. The comination of slow speed, prop walk, and full rudder deflection of prop wash will bring your nose smartly into the wind. You can perform this manuever as soon as you reach the appropriate speed. I try to remember that speed equals control. The last thing I want is to be eeking along with little or no headway in a strong wind. I'm figuring that by allowing the wind to push your bow out, you will not be fighting it, and the boat will accelerate quicker, and give you more positive control sooner. Once you have the speed, you are free to do what you wish. Let us know how you make out! RobWhy not back into your slip?
Instead of backing out of your slip, back into it. That way the wind will help push you into your slip and then leaving is a lot easier. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
Instead of backing out of your slip, back into it. That way the wind will help push you into your slip and then leaving is a lot easier. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
Thanks everyone
Thanks everyone for all the great ideas. Joe describes this situation perfectly. What success we've had was in backing as close as possible to the boats on the opposite side of the fairway which gives us maximum opportunity to shift into fwd, gun the throttle and get the bow up into the breeze. Works flawlessly in no wind, adequately in some wind, and not so good in a stiff breeze. With a strong breeze the force on the rudder (once we shift into fwd) tries to turn the bow up into the wind while the wind drives the bow down to leeward. Result ... the boat crabs across the fairway before the bow comes up enough to head out. (For ref: we're in slips with finger piers, normal breeze flows directly across the boat from stbd side to port side when tied up). We'll keep at it, try various schemes, and let you know how it goes. p.s. This effect seems much more pronounced with our Catalina 30 than with either the 34 or 36. Even so, we love the boat and the way she sails. Regards, Gary Kunkel
Thanks everyone for all the great ideas. Joe describes this situation perfectly. What success we've had was in backing as close as possible to the boats on the opposite side of the fairway which gives us maximum opportunity to shift into fwd, gun the throttle and get the bow up into the breeze. Works flawlessly in no wind, adequately in some wind, and not so good in a stiff breeze. With a strong breeze the force on the rudder (once we shift into fwd) tries to turn the bow up into the wind while the wind drives the bow down to leeward. Result ... the boat crabs across the fairway before the bow comes up enough to head out. (For ref: we're in slips with finger piers, normal breeze flows directly across the boat from stbd side to port side when tied up). We'll keep at it, try various schemes, and let you know how it goes. p.s. This effect seems much more pronounced with our Catalina 30 than with either the 34 or 36. Even so, we love the boat and the way she sails. Regards, Gary Kunkel
Back out
I have the same problem with my C30 and have tried all the methods mentioned. I now have a routine that if the wind allows, I back out and allow prop walk to turn boat so I can exit in forward. If wind is taking the bow around, I let it and back out the fairway. Either way it takes any stress out of trying to do it as you know immediately what action you will tack once bow clears the dock. Only problem is other boats who come in while you are exiting who expect boat to be moving the direction it points. Others in same dock area prefer to always back in as you suggest. Either works. David
I have the same problem with my C30 and have tried all the methods mentioned. I now have a routine that if the wind allows, I back out and allow prop walk to turn boat so I can exit in forward. If wind is taking the bow around, I let it and back out the fairway. Either way it takes any stress out of trying to do it as you know immediately what action you will tack once bow clears the dock. Only problem is other boats who come in while you are exiting who expect boat to be moving the direction it points. Others in same dock area prefer to always back in as you suggest. Either works. David
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