Trimming a Furling Main

[red_dolphin]

Don,

On May 21st, I'm racing a Beneteau 343 from Long Beach to Two Harbors, Catalina.
The next day, I race back home.
[NOTE: I am a charter club sailor. This is my boat only for the weekend.]

This boat has an in-mast furling main, no battens, and no backstay adjustment.
Adjusting the halyard is possible, but frowned upon in this charter environment.
[Too easy to mess up the main furling mechanism]

So, I am left with
-- main sheet
-- traveler
-- vang
-- outhaul
-- topping lift
-- down-haul or Cunningham [not sure which I might have available].

1) Did I mess any adjustments options, outside of reefing?

2) How does this 'reduced instruction set' of controls fit with your trimming guide [which I have]?

Put another way, what strings should I be pulling on to adjust the twist and draft of the sail?

BTW: The main is loose-footed.

The race on Saturday figures to be a beat that changes to a close reach.
On Sunday, we are usually looking at a broad reach all the way, once the wind comes up.
But, you never know until you are out there.

Any thoughts or comments would help.

 

[Paul Mermelstein]

I have a furling main on my 393. You pretty much have the number of controls right, except there should not be a downhaul/cunningham either. And while you could adjust the halyard, you really want it pretty tight so the sail will furl correctly. Also, even if you could, you do not want adjust the backstays because the mast needs to be pretty straight on a furler (it can be raked back, but not curved). So, the basic control options are, as you stated, the sheet, vang, outhaul and topping lift. You can still control draft with the outhaul (somewhat) and the twist with the vang and traveler/sheet combination.

 

[RichH]

The only 'reasonable' adjustment to control the shape of the sail is the outhaul ... principally the amount of draft.

Once you 'reef' beyond ~30% of sail area, the exposed sail area remaining will be essentially FLAT sections and little adjustment other than 'apparent' draft shape is possible.

Applying gross tension to a halyard on an inmast furler will only jam or break the furler.

All trim settings will be the same as a standard set-up: twist, angle of attack, traveller position, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc., you just cant 'shape' such a sail effectively.

 

[Alan]

The huge price paid for the convenience of a furling main means loss of most of your sail shaping options. As RichH states, "...only 'reasonable' adjustment to control the shape of the sail is the outhaul".
You may want to consider a different boat for your race to Catalina if you are trying to be competitive. If the return trip is a broad reach as predicted then the major factor might be the loss of sail area compared with other non furling mains though if the breeze is up this will not be a factor.

 

[Les]

I have had a furling main for the past fifteen years. I wouldn't have a boat without it now. But it took time to learn how to adjust it. However, it seems that many people forget and don't realize that the furling line is a control. When my main is out and the wind picks up I can flatten the main by just furling the sail a small bit but NOT releasing the outhaul. You can still use your mainsheet and boom vang to optimize twist.

I find it interesting that recent books on sail trim do not mention using the furling line to flatten the main.

 

[Joe]

I have had a furling main for the past fifteen years. I wouldn't have a boat without it now. But it took time to learn how to adjust it. However, it seems that many people forget and don't realize that the furling line is a control. When my main is out and the wind picks up I can flatten the main by just furling the sail a small bit but NOT releasing the outhaul. You can still use your mainsheet and boom vang to optimize twist.

I find it interesting that recent books on sail trim do not mention using the furling line to flatten the main.

That makes sense to me...

 

[Don Guillette]

red_dolphin: I've done that race many times. I like both Two Harbors and Avalon. One thing I remember about Avalon and how I knew when it was about time to leave - it was when I could tell my wife EXACTLY what appeared in every store front window!!

From a sail trim adjustment standpoint, you just have to use what you've got and use all of what you have. As far as what controls you use on the main and jib to adjust draft depth, twist, angle of attack and draft position, you should refer to the QUICK REFERENCE that came with your sail trim chart. I wouldn't worry about reefing. The chances of that are slim. Because the winds are so light in your neck of the woods, you should concentrate on light air sailing and keep the sail as flat as possible. The reason for that is that what little wind there is doesn't have the power to get around the sail if you induce too much draft depth (belly). Too much draft depth is easy to do with a loose footed main. As the wind pipes up, you want to power up the main and jig by inducing more draft depth gradually. If the wind goes beyond what you're comfortable with, then gradually de-power by taking the draft depth out of the sail.

Are you a member of the Marina Sailing Club? Let us know how you make out in the race.

 

[red_dolphin]

LB => Two Harbors & Back

red_dolphin: I've done that race many times. ...

From a sail trim adjustment standpoint, you just have to use what you've got and use all of what you have. As far as what controls you use on the main and jib to adjust draft depth, twist, angle of attack and draft position, you should refer to the QUICK REFERENCE that came with your sail trim chart.

I wouldn't worry about reefing. The chances of that are slim. Because the winds are so light in your neck of the woods, you should concentrate on light air sailing and keep the sail as flat as possible. The reason for that is that what little wind there is doesn't have the power to get around the sail if you induce too much draft depth (belly). Too much draft depth is easy to do with a loose footed main. As the wind pipes up, you want to power up the main and jig by inducing more draft depth gradually. If the wind goes beyond what you're comfortable with, then gradually de-power by taking the draft depth out of the sail.

Are you a member of the Marina Sailing Club? Let us know how you make out in the race.

Answering your last question first: Yes, I am a member of Marina Sailing. Thus Alan's suggestion of 'considering a different boat' is realistic.
My best available option is a Catalina 36, but I'm sticking with the Ben 343 because:

• It is a newer boat. In a charter fleet, that usually means fewer surprises.
• I have wanted to learn how to get the most out of furling mains for some time. Since this tends to be a trimmer's race, it is a good opportunity.
• Moreover, I have quite a few resources to help us trim the sails. In addition to Don's Sail Trimming Guide, I have
  ---the posts in this thread,
  -- posts in the Beneteau Owners forum at this site,
  -- the posts in the Beneteau 343 Yahoo group,
  and
  -- tuning and trimming specifics for the Ben 343 on the NeilPrydeSails site.
  Luckily, I have a capable crew with racing and cruising experience -- a really great resource.
  They can help sift through all the data [read: keep me from making things too complicated].

After the start near Queens Gate in Long Beach, the plan is to short-tack inside the breakwater and go out Angels Gate [LA Harbor].
Most of the skippers flop over to a port tack at that point and crawl up the Palos Verdes coast for a while before tacking back over for the ~21nm sail to Two Harbors.

Given the crew's experience, I plan to rotate helmsmen and 'chief trimmers' every half-hour.
This may or may not be the fastest way to get there, but all of us should know more about trimming a furling main when we are done.

Windfinder is showing 7-14 kts on the way over and 8-16 on the way home.
Well, that's just a forecast.
But if it holds, we would be close to taking one reef on the way over.
A number of 343 sailors are saying that the boat produces a better VMG sailing pretty flat [~15*].
If we heel 20*, I figure we will try putting in a 'reef' [do we call it a 'furl'?].

I'm thinking a reef will be less important on the way back because we will be on a broad reach.
But maybe I need to follow Don's 'Downwind Sailing' link and see what that tells me.

Finally, I should have mentioned that Marina Sailing races are 'non-spin' races. It's white sails only.

Thanks all for the help.
Results on Monday.

RD

 

[Rick D]

Re: LB => Two Harbors & Back

Be sure to tell us how you did. I was thinking of doing the same race, but am tied up. So, most of the boats short tack up the inner harbor to Angels Gate? makes sense since it's flat water. Good luck!

 

[red_dolphin]

Chickening Out! Changing Boats!

After all this, I just switched boats.

The latest NOAA forecast for the San Pedro Channel Buoy is 0-10 on Saturday and 10-20 on Sunday.
Moreover, the '20' part of that 10-20 is likely to be north and west of the San Pedro Channel at the time we are sailing through.
Our team is out of the Beneteau 343 and into a Beneteau 10R.
That's a PHRF rating change from 195 to 89.
Remembering that this is a 'non-spin' race, we are likely to be 'tacking' down-wind on the way home.
What we hope is that we don't have a lot of chop.

Looks like I'll have to wait for another day to fully test techniques for trimming a furling main.

In the meantime, I'm back to Don's sail trimming guides and applying them to a new, and really cool boat.

RED

 

[Don Guillette]

Re: Chickening Out! Changing Boats!

red_dolphin: I thought it might be Marina sailing. I conducted a couple of sail trim seminars for them in Long Beach. The day after one seminar, the plan was to do a "on the water" seminar, which is a 4 hour session where the folks go through every position on the boat for every point of sail. The first hour looks like a Chinese Fire Drill but on the sail back to the dock I'll match their sail trim against any boat on the water. Unfortunately, the wind was blowing like stink and we had to cancel. It rarely blows like stink in Long Beach, Ca.

Here's a story dear to my heart about another "on the water" seminar I conducted for Marina Sailing. A couple attended the 3 hour classroom session. Prior to the class, they told me they were afraid of sailing and were thinking of giving it up. They only sailed with the mainsail - they felt the jib was too much to handle. Anyway, they completed the classroom session and signed up for the "on the water" session. When they arrived at the boat, the wife told me she wasn't going to drive the boat. I thought "yeah, OK". Once we got out in the harbor, I set up the position rotation. When it came her time to take the wheel she told me she couldn't do it. I told her I'll be right next to her if anything goes wrong so she takes the wheel. Within 5 minutes she's having a ball and WON'T give up the wheel!!! During the session, they all have to give me reasons for every sail trim adjustment they make and also have to provide sail trim solutions for other boats on the water around us.

We arrive back at the dock and both the husband and wife jump off the boat and take off up the dock. My thought was you win some and lose some but I was concerned about how I handled them. About 15 minutes later I see them coming down the dock with big smiles on their faces - they had just chartered a C30 for the next weekend. That made my day!!

Marina Sailing in Newport Beach conducts sail trim seminars and "on the water" sessions using my book and chart. If any So Ca sailors are interested in improving their sail trim skills they should contact them for more info.

Red_dolphin, take my material on downwind with you. DDW ain't the way to sail that leg. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Alan]

Sailing a run in a chop is a great opportunity to try a little surfing. Sailing without regard to sea state is both boring and slow. Use the chop to your advantage and you'll discover more speed than you thought was there.

 

[red_dolphin]

Sailing a run in a chop is a great opportunity to try a little surfing. Sailing without regard to sea state is both boring and slow. Use the chop to your advantage and you'll discover more speed than you thought was there.

Couldn't agree more!
I learned to look for surfing opportunities racing Thistles and Lido14s in SoCal open ocean waters.
[uhh ... yes, that was 'back in the day'.]

First of all:
Alan, thanks for the encouragement to change boats.
Going from the [in-mast furling] Ben 343 to the [hot boat] Ben 10R was key.

On Saturday we had light airs for the first 10nm, and then plenty of wind to the finish.
We won because we were sailing a fast boat and we could trim to the conditions.
[Ya gotta love an adjustable back-stay!]

Sailing back Sunday, we were ahead and did have some surfing runs.
But the wind did not fill in, and 'the fleet' decided to abandon the race.
They figured no one would make the 1800 cut off to the finish.
[Probably so, although we had a shot at it. ]

I'm going to write up the long version of this in my sailing blog.
I'll post a link when it is published.

Thanks again, Alan and Don,

RED