Trident 101 permeated after 2 short seasons

[meb135]

This is more of an fyi for those who may be in the process of changing sanitation hoses and have "low" spots in the route from the head to the tank.

I changed all the sanitation hoses to trident 101 (black) when i bought the boat in the winter of 2012. On my '04 hunter 33, the holding tank is located in the stern section and slightly higher then the head so there's a section of hose that stays wet. We try to use the marina facilities as much as possible so there's limited use. We pump the head many times with fresh water only. I also installed a new pump kit for the jabsco head when i bought the boat.
So today i removed the permeated section and replaced it with solide pvc. I'm pretty discouraged by this as this hose comes highly recommended and it's very expensive.

Marc

 

[centerline]

if you used the trident pvc sanitation hose, you will be highly disappointed if you arent happy with the 101...
my boat came equipped with trident pvc sanitation hose, and it became perforated in random spots.
so i thought maybe it was kind of old or a bad batch of hose that got installed.... i replaced it with the same stuff. within 6 months there were a couple of perforations that would let a drop of effluent thru every few hours..... this was plenty to make the boat smell.

I replaced it all with shields 101... I wanted and ordered trident 101 but the company shipped the wrong stuff. in my attempt to return it to them and get the trident, they said keep what i have and they refunded all my money, so i installed it.
so far i have no complaints with it, but its only been installed for a few months now.

but trident pvc hose gets a very high FAIL in my review....

 

[meb135]

I replaced the permeated section with the solid schedule 40 pipe. The same sanitation pipes used in houses.

 

[thinwater]

... I changed all the sanitation hoses to trident 101 (black) when i bought the boat in the winter of 2012. On my '04 hunter 33, the holding tank is located in the stern section and slightly higher then the head so there's a section of hose that stays wet. We try to use the marina facilities as much as possible so there's limited use. We pump the head many times with fresh water only. I also installed a new pump kit for the jabsco head when i bought the boat.
So today i removed the permeated section and replaced it with solide pvc. I'm pretty discouraged by this as this hose comes highly recommended and it's very expensive.

Marc

Are we SURE it was permeated, or could it have smelled strongly of rubber? This hose is rather fragrant when new and can still be fragrant after 2 years. Are we sure there isn't a leak? 2 years is no time at all for this stuff, even if full of waste.

You would be the first person in about 15 years, so it would be great if you could submit that hose to the manufacture, Practical Sailor, or someone else in the industry for examination. Something is fishy. I've tested this hose filled for 2 years and I have a bunch on my boat.

And there is nothing wrong with PVC pipe, so long as the seacock connection is proper.

 

[meb135]

Are we SURE it was permeated, or could it have smelled strongly of rubber? This hose is rather fragrant when new and can still be fragrant after 2 years. Are we sure there isn't a leak? 2 years is no time at all for this stuff, even if full of waste.

You would be the first person in about 15 years, so it would be great if you could submit that hose to the manufacture, Practical Sailor, or someone else in the industry for examination. Something is fishy. I've tested this hose filled for 2 years and I have a bunch on my boat.

And there is nothing wrong with PVC pipe, so long as the seacock connection is proper.

The section i removed was definitely permeated. I know the hose had the rubber smell at the beginning but that section had a pretty strong and distinct urine smell. The other sections did not smell at all.

 

[Scott B]

The section i removed was definitely permeated. I know the hose had the rubber smell at the beginning but that section had a pretty strong and distinct urine smell. The other sections did not smell at all.

Where did you find the low spot. I'm probably going to replace my original hose next spring. We use our holding tank every weekend anchored out.

 

[meb135]

Where did you find the low spot. I'm probably going to replace my original hose next spring. We use our holding tank every weekend anchored out.

I replaced the whole section that's exposed just under the rear berth. That whole section was permeated.

 

[thinwater]

The thing of it is, permiated hoses generally smell of sulfides, not urine, and I've smelled quite a few permiated hoses. Urine smell is not typical. When I have smelled that, there was always a leak. Perhaps from a hose connection, that ran to the low spot or a hole from chafe (bulkhead pass-throughs can be trouble).

 

[meb135]

The thing of it is, permiated hoses generally smell of sulfides, not urine, and I've smelled quite a few permiated hoses. Urine smell is not typical. When I have smelled that, there was always a leak. Perhaps from a hose connection, that ran to the low spot or a hole from chafe (bulkhead pass-throughs can be trouble).

No leaks anywhere. It was the first thing I checked.
To make sure I was correct, once that section of hose was off the boat and after being away from the smell for awhile, I did the smell test and the hose smelled the same as it did on the boat and the smell in no longer in the boat.
I know based on the reviews of this hose that it's hard to believe but......**** happens!
Anyway, Trident is refunding me for the 5 feet of hose that I had to cut.

 

[MetricMountie]

I replaced the entire sanitation hose system with Trident White two seasons ago on our 35.5 and had absolutely no problems. Immediately after the install the smell were gone and the Admiral was super happy. We flushed regularly with both salt and fresh water but I think the best thing we ever did was to completely flush the entire system a minimum of 4 times with fresh water when we did out winter storage. The entire boat smelled fresh on completion. I also installed a clean out in the top of the holding tank and it was cleaned completely at the end of the season, a nasty job but worth the time and effort.

 

[centerline]

No leaks anywhere. It was the first thing I checked.

I agree that a urine smell is more indicative of a leak rather than permeation. A leak will run down the hose and make it smell of urine, whereas a permeated rubber hose has a different smell...

How was the leak test performed?...

The following is for anyone who would like to check their system for leaks but doesnt know how...

This is the only way I have found to do a dependable leak test on a holding system...
You must first empty the holding tank completely, and then flush it with fresh water...

then, use paper towels only (NOT a cloth rag) to clean and dry ALL THE HOSES AND CONNECTIONS in the system... this is a very importent step, making sure you dont miss any low spots, as it insures you a clean, dry foundation to base your test findings on.

then flush the toilet until the tank is full and the water is overflowing the vent.....
Let it set for an hour, then use a square or two of toilet paper only (NOT paper towels or a cloth rag) to gently dab at the connections and the hoses, looking at it regularly for a damp spot. If there is even the slightest leak, it will show on the delicate paper.... gift wrap tissue paper is also a good to use as it is even more sesitive to moisture than toilet paper is.
The very slightest show of moisture will be a leak of smelly effluent.

Also check the level of the water in the vent line and if it has dropped any signifigant amount the tank may be compromised.... but your particular case, the problem is with the hose.

 

[Ray Bowles]

When you speak of using PVC tubing do you mean the whitish colored tubing or the black tubing? The black is called ABS and is the only tubing used for sewage. White PVC is used for cold water and NOT for sewage. The black tubing has worked very well for us for over 8 years for marine sewage. Both will break if fluid filled in winter during freezing temps. A serious problem.
Ray

 

[agprice22]

I replaced the permeated section with the solid schedule 40 pipe. The same sanitation pipes used in houses.

If you used solid pvc, how will you keep the joints from working apart? Won't the motion of the boat flex and torque the joints til they either crack or work themselves apart?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[meb135]

I agree that a urine smell is more indicative of a leak rather than permeation. A leak will run down the hose and make it smell of urine, whereas a permeated rubber hose has a different smell...

How was the leak test performed?...


I understand what you're saying. But the first 3 feet of hose on the head end and on the tank end have no smell at all. If there was a leak at either connection, i would think the hose would smell there also.

 

[meb135]

When you speak of using PVC tubing do you mean the whitish colored tubing or the black tubing? The black is called ABS and is the only tubing used for sewage. White PVC is used for cold water and NOT for sewage. The black tubing has worked very well for us for over 8 years for marine sewage. Both will break if fluid filled in winter during freezing temps. A serious problem.
Ray

My mistake. Yes i installed the black schedule 40 ABS sanitation pipe, the same one used. In homes.

 

[meb135]

If you used solid pvc, how will you keep the joints from working apart? Won't the motion of the boat flex and torque the joints til they either crack or work themselves apart?

Thanks,

Andrew

The connections to the head and tank are still made with trident 101. It's just the middle section that's ABS and everything is very flexible and loose.