Scott: Change to a single line and you will use it more. It can be made to the length you need related to where you sit and only need one line to flick out of cleat on one side and draw down on the other. Trying to grab each line is a pita! Chief
Traveller upgrade
- Thread starter bigpapaporsche
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Jackdaw: Looks like we were both on this with the same recommendation at the same time! Happy Holidays! Chief
On other general note, a crafty sailor can always find ways to make the fine art of sail control easier and more accurate. And once you have a new and better way, it's hard to go back, or wonder how people can sail without it. Its the nature of the sport. Our boats have remotely adjustable jib tracks with 3:1 purchase. Allows adjusting them under load. I cannot image sailing without them. But I have friends that think my cheap-o way of in-hauling the jib is crude and barbaric, and wonder how I can sail like that. There is always a new level in front of you.
Jackdaw: So, is each track rigged much like the one line system on the traveler with blocks and no track cleats? Cleat double line in cockpit? Chief
Chief,
It basically looks like this.
To move the car forward pull the line. You only need a control line on the forward side because jib sheet tension ALWAYS wants to push it back. Opening the cleat and releasing tension will allow the jib sheet to move the car back. In light airs this sometimes takes a wiggle to make happen, or you can get tricky and mount a simple shock cord system to pull it back.
This seems to be a practical approach to making sure you can better utilize the draw down angle to enhance the trim of the sail. I tend to forget about the proper angle to adjust to and I think it is due to the fact that adjustment isn't readily available from the cockpit. Thanks, I learned something already this morning! my best, Chief
Many variables ...
I was interested in JD's comments about the Harken product because I had originally considered exchanging my Schaefer gear for it, but decided against it. I brought it up because bigpapa mentioned it. All things considered, I think he has it well thought-out for his application on the Capri 22.
Our boat has a very small cockpit (with the wheel making it smaller), actually shorter, I think, than the Cat 22's I see on our lake. Plus the winches are back by the wheel, where the genoa is more easily managed from behind the wheel. I lead the traveler lines so that I can adjust them most easily from behind the wheel, by holding both lines like buggy reins. The biggest problem is the damn crew that is always lounging on the lines (see photo) :naughty: I tend to set the traveler for the new point of sail and only make occasional adjustments when correcting AA. I generally move in front of the wheel and steer with my aft hand when on course, moving behind the wheel when tacking or gybing. It actually is more awkward handling the traveler lines from the front of the cockpit than from behind the wheel. I think your suggestion for single line would be helpful, except that I like the ability to manage the traveler behind the wheel.
I was interested in JD's comments about the Harken product because I had originally considered exchanging my Schaefer gear for it, but decided against it. I brought it up because bigpapa mentioned it. All things considered, I think he has it well thought-out for his application on the Capri 22.
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All good! Although a great add for ANY boat, remotely adjustable systems are most often found as standard equipment on sportier boats that fly deck-sweeping headsails (in particular jibs!) that sail with the tack VERY close to the deck. Here very slight differences in the car position make a huge difference in the sheeting angle and effect twist. On the First 260 an inch will throw the sail trim out of whack!
Sail control ...
Since we moved on to traveler control ... I've intended to add tracks to the inside. You can see how far back and outward the track is even for a 150 genoa. When I use the 110 with a high clew, it seems like there is a mile of line between the clew and the fairlead.
JD, I am curious about your picture with the track on the coach roof. I planned on adding track on the deck next to the sidewall between the shroud and the coaming. Does it make more sense to add track to the coach roof in front of the shroud? I want the boat to point better, keeping in mind that I have shoal draft keel. Which track to add fairlead control to ... inner or outer?
Since we moved on to traveler control ... I've intended to add tracks to the inside. You can see how far back and outward the track is even for a 150 genoa. When I use the 110 with a high clew, it seems like there is a mile of line between the clew and the fairlead.
JD, I am curious about your picture with the track on the coach roof. I planned on adding track on the deck next to the sidewall between the shroud and the coaming. Does it make more sense to add track to the coach roof in front of the shroud? I want the boat to point better, keeping in mind that I have shoal draft keel. Which track to add fairlead control to ... inner or outer?
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If you are racing, then you don't want to do what you suggest and I assume the Capri 22 guy wants to race (otherwise why upgrade?). Also in very heavy air, you could use some purchase, but on a 22-foot boat, we aren't talking tons of pressure.
Scott,
The First 260 (like most modern raceboats) has shrouds that attach to the gunwales. It can do this because it is designed to ONLY fly non-overlapping sails (jibs). If you look at that picture, you can see that the leech of the jib is just an inch in front of the spreader and the lower shroud. It allow the designer to set the headsail angle at the optimal 8 degrees without having to worry about the shrouds.
Downsides is no genoa, and that costs us in light air PHRF racing that does not factor windspeed.
For your boat, and jib track would be a very nice addition. Do some math and look where it would go if you made the angle 8 or 9 degrees. That would be the optimal location, all else being equal. Any you are right, your genoa track looks too outboard as well.
With some planning, remote adjusters can be added with no real lost work, parts, or extra holes in the deck. You could put the tracks in first, and go for adjuster after.
The First 260 (like most modern raceboats) has shrouds that attach to the gunwales. It can do this because it is designed to ONLY fly non-overlapping sails (jibs). If you look at that picture, you can see that the leech of the jib is just an inch in front of the spreader and the lower shroud. It allow the designer to set the headsail angle at the optimal 8 degrees without having to worry about the shrouds.
Downsides is no genoa, and that costs us in light air PHRF racing that does not factor windspeed.
For your boat, and jib track would be a very nice addition. Do some math and look where it would go if you made the angle 8 or 9 degrees. That would be the optimal location, all else being equal. Any you are right, your genoa track looks too outboard as well.
With some planning, remote adjusters can be added with no real lost work, parts, or extra holes in the deck. You could put the tracks in first, and go for adjuster after.
As I mentioned in the OP, I want to become a better sailer overall! In my opinion, to help accomplish this, Sail Trim and Boat Balance can become very important objectives to improve performance, while also making for a more comfortable sail. I am not a big race oriented guy, but I do enjoy a boat that handles well, in what ever conditions exists. IMHO, the Traveler is one of the most unused items on a sailboat! I think this is due primary to confusion on how/when to use it, as well as the fact that they are all to often rigged in away that makes using them awkward. The J22 system, in conjunction with the Continuous Line/Loop, should be very instrumental in permitting me to use the Traveler correctly and more often in gusts to control Weather Helm, etc. It just occurred to me that the J22 system uses the "KISS Principal," and that can't be all bad.
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bigpapaporsch, where do you sail around Cincinnati?
I like your two cam cleat approach and look forward to hearing about the results. I can't count the number of systems on boats I've sailed on and only a few, I thought, were satisfactory. It is an admitted challenge to create a system that works for a crew member to operate from the high side, while being accessible from the helm for single handing or cruising.
I like your two cam cleat approach and look forward to hearing about the results. I can't count the number of systems on boats I've sailed on and only a few, I thought, were satisfactory. It is an admitted challenge to create a system that works for a crew member to operate from the high side, while being accessible from the helm for single handing or cruising.
Andrew, thanks for your comments. I guess thats what I like most about the J22 System, especially when it is coupled with the Traveler's "Continuous Line/Loop" feature! I must stress the benefit of the "Continuous Line/Loop" method makes the J22 system come to life!! Our Capri 22 has the Traveller located in the Mid-Cockpit location, which I think is ideally suited for this method of using the Traveler. Although I sail on a small State Park Lake in Ohio, I have dreams of sailing around the Great lakes and off the Florida Coast. You could say, I am in training, but working my way up. Unfortunately, I have "Champagne Taste, but on a Beer Budget."
I know some great sailors who grew up sailing on a small lake in SW Ohio - one was a J-24 national champion. It's not the size of a body of water that makes a learning sailor successful or not.
You are not accepting the status quo as the best way, and looking for a better way. That's a good thing.