Hi all, So, here goes: I thought I would upgrade the traveller system on my 1987 H23 to one that can be adjusted. SO...I bought a new Harken car (2729 HARKEN Small Boat CB Car /Fixed Sheaves)and Harken ends with cam cleats (260 HARKEN Small Boat Control Block). The car fits on the track, but the control blocks are a wee bit too narrow for the track. Can I grind the ends of the track 4-inches to accept the control blocks or is this a BAD idea? Thanks, Richard 1987 H23 "Invictus"
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check out the clearance
I'm not sure if grinding the ends would be a bad idea or not. You may want to just check out the clearance section on Harken's website to see if they have a track which will fit better. That way you can pull up your old track, clean out those weep holes which never weep well enough anyway and maybe get a good deal in the process. See http://www.harkenstore.com/ for more details.
I'm not sure if grinding the ends would be a bad idea or not. You may want to just check out the clearance section on Harken's website to see if they have a track which will fit better. That way you can pull up your old track, clean out those weep holes which never weep well enough anyway and maybe get a good deal in the process. See http://www.harkenstore.com/ for more details.
You can retro your existing traveler
If your existing track and car are still in good working condition you can add blocks to it and make it adjustable with out the expense and hassle of removing your old one. Check the archives for pictures. This is one of the first things I did and it makes a world of differance in heavier wind.
If your existing track and car are still in good working condition you can add blocks to it and make it adjustable with out the expense and hassle of removing your old one. Check the archives for pictures. This is one of the first things I did and it makes a world of differance in heavier wind.
Question for John
Did you use Schaefer hardware? I did (stock track and car were Schaefer) and everything fit very well. The only hassle is that the traveler control line cleats at the ends of the track, not on the car. The way this line exits the cleats makes it hard to play the traveler in the gusts. I also have to uncleat and recleat on the opposite side when tacking. Windward sheeting on the car would be nice. Did I mention I single-hand a lot? Your comments or suggestions would be appreciated. TIA. Peter H23 "Raven"
Did you use Schaefer hardware? I did (stock track and car were Schaefer) and everything fit very well. The only hassle is that the traveler control line cleats at the ends of the track, not on the car. The way this line exits the cleats makes it hard to play the traveler in the gusts. I also have to uncleat and recleat on the opposite side when tacking. Windward sheeting on the car would be nice. Did I mention I single-hand a lot? Your comments or suggestions would be appreciated. TIA. Peter H23 "Raven"
Need picture of traveler modification
Hi John I looked in the archives and could find the picture, If anyone has a picture of the retrofit traveler to make it easier to adjust that would be great. Thanks Dave
Hi John I looked in the archives and could find the picture, If anyone has a picture of the retrofit traveler to make it easier to adjust that would be great. Thanks Dave
Adjustable traveler
I don't have any pictures, I might be going out to the boat on Wednesday and I'll take some. I'll try to describe it for you. First I did not remove the track or car. Move the stops to each end, then attach two Harken 166 single/swivels to the eye strap that the Main sheet tackle mounts to. Mount a Harken 096 upright lead block on the seat back on each side an inch or so above and over from the end of the track, above that mount a Harken cam cleat. Drill a hole in each end of the track big enough to pull your new traveler line thru. Tie a stopper knot, reave the line thru the 066 then to the 096 and up to the cleat, Instant 2to1 purchase and adjustable traveler. Clear as mud, right? You will want an eye strap on the cam cleats to keep the line with the cleats. You could mount an eye strap on the other side of the end of the traveler to dead end the lines (instead of the hole in the traveler) but I thought the less holes drilled thru the boat the better.
I don't have any pictures, I might be going out to the boat on Wednesday and I'll take some. I'll try to describe it for you. First I did not remove the track or car. Move the stops to each end, then attach two Harken 166 single/swivels to the eye strap that the Main sheet tackle mounts to. Mount a Harken 096 upright lead block on the seat back on each side an inch or so above and over from the end of the track, above that mount a Harken cam cleat. Drill a hole in each end of the track big enough to pull your new traveler line thru. Tie a stopper knot, reave the line thru the 066 then to the 096 and up to the cleat, Instant 2to1 purchase and adjustable traveler. Clear as mud, right? You will want an eye strap on the cam cleats to keep the line with the cleats. You could mount an eye strap on the other side of the end of the traveler to dead end the lines (instead of the hole in the traveler) but I thought the less holes drilled thru the boat the better.
Picture of inexpensive traveler upgrade
Here is the picture of what I did to upgrade my stock traveler without removing the track or car. If you single hand often you could angle the upright block and cam cleat towards the back of the cockpit. I didn't do that for the comfort of having more people in the cockpit, nobody likes a cam cleat in the back. With a tiller extension I can single hand and still work the traveler just fine. If you wanted more purchase you could mount a block on the other side of the upright block and then use a block with a becket on the car, that would give you 3to1 purchase.
Here is the picture of what I did to upgrade my stock traveler without removing the track or car. If you single hand often you could angle the upright block and cam cleat towards the back of the cockpit. I didn't do that for the comfort of having more people in the cockpit, nobody likes a cam cleat in the back. With a tiller extension I can single hand and still work the traveler just fine. If you wanted more purchase you could mount a block on the other side of the upright block and then use a block with a becket on the car, that would give you 3to1 purchase.
Attachments
Very nice traveler modification
Simple yet effective. Now I wish I had procrastinated. Peter H23 "Raven"
Simple yet effective. Now I wish I had procrastinated. Peter H23 "Raven"
mainsheet traveler
Peter Suah, I'm curious, how did you do yours? I'm curious in yours because, I've read in earlier posts that you were a Flying Scot sailor. So am I. After moving to H23, I have always wondered why to uncleat mainsheet you push down, as opposed to pulling up. Pulling up on the Flying Scots mainsheet, uncleated immediatly, very easy. Uncleating mainsheet on my H23 is sometimes impossible. Next is traveler. With no mechinacal advantage, you need alot of time to set and adjust. I like what John Schaub has done, simple to do, but looks very effective. Have always enjoyed reading your posts, especially after learning that you were a Scot sailor.
Peter Suah, I'm curious, how did you do yours? I'm curious in yours because, I've read in earlier posts that you were a Flying Scot sailor. So am I. After moving to H23, I have always wondered why to uncleat mainsheet you push down, as opposed to pulling up. Pulling up on the Flying Scots mainsheet, uncleated immediatly, very easy. Uncleating mainsheet on my H23 is sometimes impossible. Next is traveler. With no mechinacal advantage, you need alot of time to set and adjust. I like what John Schaub has done, simple to do, but looks very effective. Have always enjoyed reading your posts, especially after learning that you were a Scot sailor.
Hey George
The Flying Scot is the best daysailer ever built. Period. Any boat with that kind of performance and will hold six adults and float in eight inches of water is pretty special. I was glad to see it was inducted into the Sailing Hall of Fame last year. If I find one at a decent price I'd probably buy it. Check the Photo Forum for my H23 traveler mod, Quite frankly I prefer John's version because you don't have to take up the track or remove the existing stops. That cuts the amount of work subsantially. His setup also allows you to adjust the traveler from the coaming, a very nice feature that I haven't been able to do with mine. I'm seriously considering adding the turning blocks and cleats that he did. My mainsheet tackle (Harken) has the sheet exit at the bottom with the cam cleats upside down so I have to snap down to uncleat the mainsheet. This setup helps when sailing close-hauled because the H23 main is very powerful and even with a 4:1 tackle you need to sheet in hard to get that last bit of trim. Now I use the traveler to get the right angle of attack. Since the mainsheet tension isn't as hard, the leech of the sail is more open and I have less weather helm (and more boatspeed!). I find sailing an H23 very similar to sailing a Scot. The H23 is pretty light (2300 lb) so I can still use my weight effectively to trim the boat and get the maximum effect from the available sail power. On a beam reach in a decent breeze the H23 will plane just like a Scot. My personal best is 8.6 kt and Greg S. in Texas reported speeds over 10 kt. Ease of mainsail control is a big part of this. Peter H23 "Raven"
The Flying Scot is the best daysailer ever built. Period. Any boat with that kind of performance and will hold six adults and float in eight inches of water is pretty special. I was glad to see it was inducted into the Sailing Hall of Fame last year. If I find one at a decent price I'd probably buy it. Check the Photo Forum for my H23 traveler mod, Quite frankly I prefer John's version because you don't have to take up the track or remove the existing stops. That cuts the amount of work subsantially. His setup also allows you to adjust the traveler from the coaming, a very nice feature that I haven't been able to do with mine. I'm seriously considering adding the turning blocks and cleats that he did. My mainsheet tackle (Harken) has the sheet exit at the bottom with the cam cleats upside down so I have to snap down to uncleat the mainsheet. This setup helps when sailing close-hauled because the H23 main is very powerful and even with a 4:1 tackle you need to sheet in hard to get that last bit of trim. Now I use the traveler to get the right angle of attack. Since the mainsheet tension isn't as hard, the leech of the sail is more open and I have less weather helm (and more boatspeed!). I find sailing an H23 very similar to sailing a Scot. The H23 is pretty light (2300 lb) so I can still use my weight effectively to trim the boat and get the maximum effect from the available sail power. On a beam reach in a decent breeze the H23 will plane just like a Scot. My personal best is 8.6 kt and Greg S. in Texas reported speeds over 10 kt. Ease of mainsail control is a big part of this. Peter H23 "Raven"
Hi Peter
Thank you for your response. I couldn't agree more with you on your thoughts about the Flying Scot. Still have mine and sail it reguarly. I havent had a chance yet to check out your traveler, but I will. Also appreciate your comments on how it is used, as I am still a rookie on the traveler. Planing an H23? I would love to hear your story, or anyone else. I couldn't imagine. I have only had my H23 for 1.5 seasons. Quikly learned that it goes real fast downwind, but cant imagine what it would be like to plane on this boat. Thanks again, George
Thank you for your response. I couldn't agree more with you on your thoughts about the Flying Scot. Still have mine and sail it reguarly. I havent had a chance yet to check out your traveler, but I will. Also appreciate your comments on how it is used, as I am still a rookie on the traveler. Planing an H23? I would love to hear your story, or anyone else. I couldn't imagine. I have only had my H23 for 1.5 seasons. Quikly learned that it goes real fast downwind, but cant imagine what it would be like to plane on this boat. Thanks again, George
Planing the H23
I've done it twice while single-handing, and once with crew. The trick is to get the boat as light as possible (remove everything that's not needed). Then sail on a beam reach in about 15 kt of wind in flat water with full mainsail and the 110 working jib. Crew and skipper should be as far aft as possible on the windward side of the cockpit to keep the boat level. This does three things: moves weight onto the buoyant, flat aft section of the hull, lifts the bow out of the water and changes the angle of attack of the wing keel to either neutral or positive (trailing edge of wings is same level or lower than leading edge). On a good gust the boat will climb over its bow wave and get on plane. As the boat accelerates and the apparent wind moves forward, trim the sails. Peter H23 "Raven"
I've done it twice while single-handing, and once with crew. The trick is to get the boat as light as possible (remove everything that's not needed). Then sail on a beam reach in about 15 kt of wind in flat water with full mainsail and the 110 working jib. Crew and skipper should be as far aft as possible on the windward side of the cockpit to keep the boat level. This does three things: moves weight onto the buoyant, flat aft section of the hull, lifts the bow out of the water and changes the angle of attack of the wing keel to either neutral or positive (trailing edge of wings is same level or lower than leading edge). On a good gust the boat will climb over its bow wave and get on plane. As the boat accelerates and the apparent wind moves forward, trim the sails. Peter H23 "Raven"
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