Don, I have your book and sail trim charts, and I think they are very well written. Unfortunately I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the use of the traveler. I realize that sailing close hauled the boom should be centered or slightly upwind but what about other points of sail? Close reach, Reach, Broad reach etc Is my goal to keep the traveler centered for the most part and only use to depower, or do I play it out as I sail farther off the wind? I am sure the answers to my questions are contained in your book or chart but since I have started to play with the traveler, it seems that my boat speed has been down and I need some help! Sometimes knowledge is dangerous. I understand that sail tim is a dynamic thing constantly changing, but could you give me some steadfast rules for traveler use on the different points of sail say 10-15 kts wnd speed Thanks
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Traveler
Bill: First, lets discuss what the traveler is adjusting and that is the ANGLE OF ATTACK (refer to that section of my book). That is the ONLY thing the traveler adjusts. The definition of angle of attack is confusing but is simply this - the more you trim the traveler in, the more power you develop and the more you ease the traveler out the less power you develop. Many sailors make the following mistake when the boat gets in an overpowered situation - they ease the mainsheet first. Actually, the first thing they should do is ease the traveler to get the boat on its feet and then gradually trim in (power up) to a point they are comfortable. The mainsheet also adjusts the angle of attack but when you fool with the mainshet your also messing with twist and draft position. That is why I prefer the traveler to get the boat on its feet. The traveler is the easiest control to deal with. The traveler is important in puffs yet many sailors prefer the mainsheet. In a puff all you have to do is ease the traveler and when the puff subsides just trim it up. Less work and more effective than the mainsheet. Some mates think the traveler adjusts the sail but it doesn't. Picture your screen door at home as the mainsail. Assume the screen door has a pin in the corner that rides in a groove (traveler)on the floor. When you open and close your screen door does the shape of the screen change. Obviously, it does not and the same applies to the traveler. You could drop the traveler over to your neighbors boat and the shape of the main would remain the same. I can't give you the precise settings for the traveler but now that you know how the traveler works and what it does it will be easy for you to work out your own settings. Next time your out in 10 to 15 knots experiment. Get going at full speed closehauled and then ease the traveler (don't touch anything else)and watch what happens. Play with it like the accelerator on your car.
Bill: First, lets discuss what the traveler is adjusting and that is the ANGLE OF ATTACK (refer to that section of my book). That is the ONLY thing the traveler adjusts. The definition of angle of attack is confusing but is simply this - the more you trim the traveler in, the more power you develop and the more you ease the traveler out the less power you develop. Many sailors make the following mistake when the boat gets in an overpowered situation - they ease the mainsheet first. Actually, the first thing they should do is ease the traveler to get the boat on its feet and then gradually trim in (power up) to a point they are comfortable. The mainsheet also adjusts the angle of attack but when you fool with the mainshet your also messing with twist and draft position. That is why I prefer the traveler to get the boat on its feet. The traveler is the easiest control to deal with. The traveler is important in puffs yet many sailors prefer the mainsheet. In a puff all you have to do is ease the traveler and when the puff subsides just trim it up. Less work and more effective than the mainsheet. Some mates think the traveler adjusts the sail but it doesn't. Picture your screen door at home as the mainsail. Assume the screen door has a pin in the corner that rides in a groove (traveler)on the floor. When you open and close your screen door does the shape of the screen change. Obviously, it does not and the same applies to the traveler. You could drop the traveler over to your neighbors boat and the shape of the main would remain the same. I can't give you the precise settings for the traveler but now that you know how the traveler works and what it does it will be easy for you to work out your own settings. Next time your out in 10 to 15 knots experiment. Get going at full speed closehauled and then ease the traveler (don't touch anything else)and watch what happens. Play with it like the accelerator on your car.
Traveler on Reach
Don, I understand what the traveler is doing for me while close hauled, and I always use it to depower when I am developing to much weather helm or heeling. What I am trying to get on top of is when on a reach, do I 1) Keep the traveler centered 2) Adjust the twist with the mainsheet 3) Lower the traveler to adjust the mainsails angle to the wind or: 1) Lower the traveler to adjust the mainsails angle to the wind 2) Adjust the twist with the mainsheet 3) Reposition the traveler for 3-5 deg weather helm On a Run the traveler should be all the way down correct?? Don, Please put your lifejacket on because this traveler thing may become a rough ride for you trying to get the information through my thick skull.*yks Bill
Don, I understand what the traveler is doing for me while close hauled, and I always use it to depower when I am developing to much weather helm or heeling. What I am trying to get on top of is when on a reach, do I 1) Keep the traveler centered 2) Adjust the twist with the mainsheet 3) Lower the traveler to adjust the mainsails angle to the wind or: 1) Lower the traveler to adjust the mainsails angle to the wind 2) Adjust the twist with the mainsheet 3) Reposition the traveler for 3-5 deg weather helm On a Run the traveler should be all the way down correct?? Don, Please put your lifejacket on because this traveler thing may become a rough ride for you trying to get the information through my thick skull.*yks Bill
Traveler On A Reach
Bill: No "problemo". I wish I could tell you what I went through to understand some of these sail trim concepts. I just could not get it until one day the light went on. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, the light went on one concept at a time. When you are closehauled the traveler car is probably some where near the center of the track. It might be centered or even over the center. While on a run the car is at the end of the track. So on a beam reach it is somewhere near the 1/4 mark. Don't mess with the twist unless you want to spill air (depower the sail). In our example we want to maintain the same speed we had when closehauled so don't do anything to the shape of the sail to spoil the setup. Only touch it if wind or sea conditions on the reach changed. Don't induce weather helm on a reach either. The reason for inducing a small amount of weather helm when closehauled is that lift is developed from 3 things and they are the sails, the keel and the rudder. Lift = power. It is probably just in my head but I don't like weather helm on a reach. Don't ask me why because I don't know.
Bill: No "problemo". I wish I could tell you what I went through to understand some of these sail trim concepts. I just could not get it until one day the light went on. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, the light went on one concept at a time. When you are closehauled the traveler car is probably some where near the center of the track. It might be centered or even over the center. While on a run the car is at the end of the track. So on a beam reach it is somewhere near the 1/4 mark. Don't mess with the twist unless you want to spill air (depower the sail). In our example we want to maintain the same speed we had when closehauled so don't do anything to the shape of the sail to spoil the setup. Only touch it if wind or sea conditions on the reach changed. Don't induce weather helm on a reach either. The reason for inducing a small amount of weather helm when closehauled is that lift is developed from 3 things and they are the sails, the keel and the rudder. Lift = power. It is probably just in my head but I don't like weather helm on a reach. Don't ask me why because I don't know.
Another approach
After a tack, you can first set the lower tell-tales using the traveler. If the mainsheet is anywhere near in the ballpark you can get two and usually three TTs streaming decently. Then use the mainsheet to set the upper one or two, making sure the lower ones are still streaming. This all assumes the headsail is properly trimmed first. It essentially does what Don suggests, but in a different order and perhaps is a little quicker.
After a tack, you can first set the lower tell-tales using the traveler. If the mainsheet is anywhere near in the ballpark you can get two and usually three TTs streaming decently. Then use the mainsheet to set the upper one or two, making sure the lower ones are still streaming. This all assumes the headsail is properly trimmed first. It essentially does what Don suggests, but in a different order and perhaps is a little quicker.
I keep hearing close hauled, and I am guessing
that the suggestion is to first set the main while close hauled, then proceed to the chosen tack and adjust the traveler as required. Much of the time I find myself on a reach after raising the main as that point of sail normally takes me to my intended destination. I guess I need to try setting the mail while close hauled then bearing off to a reach and find out what happens. I was planning to try you guys suggestions, but forecast of HEAVY thunderstorms with DANGEROUS lightning kept me in port. I will try the suggestions and keep you posted. Thanks, Bill
that the suggestion is to first set the main while close hauled, then proceed to the chosen tack and adjust the traveler as required. Much of the time I find myself on a reach after raising the main as that point of sail normally takes me to my intended destination. I guess I need to try setting the mail while close hauled then bearing off to a reach and find out what happens. I was planning to try you guys suggestions, but forecast of HEAVY thunderstorms with DANGEROUS lightning kept me in port. I will try the suggestions and keep you posted. Thanks, Bill
Not necessary
You don't have to be close hauled to set your sails properly from scratch. If you have a masthead rig, set your foresail first, because the main will not affect the flow over it very much, but it will affect the flow over the main a lot. So once you have the foresail lee tell-tales streaming nicely and breaking evenly, now go through the steps with the main. You can do it quicker than it takes to say it - in lighter air you want the traveler higher and the mainsheet free-er; as the breeze comes up, the mainsheet will come in and the trav will go down some. But if you get the lower two mainsail leech tales streaming well, and the uppers streaming sometimes, you will be very close. Most folks tend to sheet their sails too tightly on a reach - trust the tales, and you will pass them at will.
You don't have to be close hauled to set your sails properly from scratch. If you have a masthead rig, set your foresail first, because the main will not affect the flow over it very much, but it will affect the flow over the main a lot. So once you have the foresail lee tell-tales streaming nicely and breaking evenly, now go through the steps with the main. You can do it quicker than it takes to say it - in lighter air you want the traveler higher and the mainsheet free-er; as the breeze comes up, the mainsheet will come in and the trav will go down some. But if you get the lower two mainsail leech tales streaming well, and the uppers streaming sometimes, you will be very close. Most folks tend to sheet their sails too tightly on a reach - trust the tales, and you will pass them at will.
Same question
Frank, I have the same question as you. This year was my first year with TT on the main. I can not believe the differance that they have made. I too would like to know at what point of sail they no lnoger are giving good info. If they are working on all points of sail, what do they look like. Dale
Frank, I have the same question as you. This year was my first year with TT on the main. I can not believe the differance that they have made. I too would like to know at what point of sail they no lnoger are giving good info. If they are working on all points of sail, what do they look like. Dale
Range of tell-tales
They work for just about any point of sail except dead down wind. If you can get flow across a sail (tell-tales streaming) the sail is almost always more effective. About the only exception is with a heavy boat and/or lots of wind and you want to sail in a downwind direction - then the most efficient point of sail is DDW. Even with the sails "wung out" unless the wind is way up you should try for flow on one of them - that indicates that the boat is being pulled by the low pressure on the backside of the sail, rather than being pushed by the wind. For example, with a masthead rig, going basically downwind, try sailing with the wind off the starboard quarter with the main to the left, headsail poled out to the right, and get the tales on the leech of the main flowing. Don't worry about the flow on the headsail at this point - you just want it real full. Usually this will mean you have the main much farther out than your instinct says, but tell-tales don't lie. (If they did, they would be called tale-tellers.)
They work for just about any point of sail except dead down wind. If you can get flow across a sail (tell-tales streaming) the sail is almost always more effective. About the only exception is with a heavy boat and/or lots of wind and you want to sail in a downwind direction - then the most efficient point of sail is DDW. Even with the sails "wung out" unless the wind is way up you should try for flow on one of them - that indicates that the boat is being pulled by the low pressure on the backside of the sail, rather than being pushed by the wind. For example, with a masthead rig, going basically downwind, try sailing with the wind off the starboard quarter with the main to the left, headsail poled out to the right, and get the tales on the leech of the main flowing. Don't worry about the flow on the headsail at this point - you just want it real full. Usually this will mean you have the main much farther out than your instinct says, but tell-tales don't lie. (If they did, they would be called tale-tellers.)
Broad reach
Can you still get all of the TT to fly aft on a broad reach? I have not, and it may be the main is over sheeted. Dale
Can you still get all of the TT to fly aft on a broad reach? I have not, and it may be the main is over sheeted. Dale
Reaching
Sometimes it is hard to get the uppers flowing well, but, at least with a masthead rig and a genoa up front, you are more concerned with getting the foresail drawing well. If it is trimmed out well and pulling hard, then you might not get the upper tales flowing real well on the main. Play around with settings and see how the boat feels. Almost no one trims their sails too free, but it is very common to see a boat sheeted too tight when not hard on the wind, even experienced racers. Trust the tales.
Sometimes it is hard to get the uppers flowing well, but, at least with a masthead rig and a genoa up front, you are more concerned with getting the foresail drawing well. If it is trimmed out well and pulling hard, then you might not get the upper tales flowing real well on the main. Play around with settings and see how the boat feels. Almost no one trims their sails too free, but it is very common to see a boat sheeted too tight when not hard on the wind, even experienced racers. Trust the tales.
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