Tonight I was out working on the boat in the backyard when I looked under the hull and noticed that I found where the missing bolt went on the trailer bunk support - it had come out and was wedged between the bunk wood and the hull. I saw that the hull had a slight indentation from the bolt wedged in there. The last time I used the boat was about a month ago, the first time I have been out on it since I got it in late February (it's been a miserable winter/spring here in Seattle). Basically I freaked out, and figured that I need to get this off the trailer immediately so I towed it to the lake, launched it, then pulled the trailer out to fix it. (See link) I figure fiberglass is pretty flexible to a point, but I still think I see a bit of an indentation in the hull. I didn't see anything under the seat inside the cabin, no cracks or anything bad looking. Could this eventually pop back out or have I completely screwed something up badly? Also, I have my usual problem of getting the boat centered on the trailer. Even when I get the bow all the way up into the rubber v-cradle thing, once I pull it out, I end up with a gap. Maybe I just need to go deeper with the extension? I just have to keep going back and forth trying to get it centered on the keel support, this can be a problem when things get busy this summer at the ramp! What the heck am I doing wrong? I'm new at this sized boat ownership. Launching is easy but picking the thing up is pretty stressful. Also, the winch loop on the boat is always much lower than the winch strap, so it digs into the rubber thing when winching. I'm doing something really stupid I think. I feel that I'm going to really break something in the learning process. Help! (web link goes to some photos I took of my problems.) http://home.comcast.net/~tegwilym/boathull/ Tom Catalina 22 - 1971 #880
Trailer bunk trouble - indentation in hull?
- Thread starter tegwilym
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Trailer trouble
I have a 1971, 22' Venture with a swing keel. I had to install 4" x 4" boards on the bottom of the trailer to guide the keel straight onto the trailer. Mine are about 12' long, one on each side of the keel. They stick out about 2' beyond the bunker and end at about the forward end of the keel (when on the trailer.) They are in a "v" to simplify guiding the boat into the correct location. In my case it was very difficult to drive the boat onto the trailer since there are no finger docks to come into. I also placed 2" guides near the end of the trailer so I can see when I am lined up correctly. I still find that I have to come onto the trailer "hot" to drive it up to the "v" on the winch. I also raised the winch about 4". Good luck with yours. Novelman
I have a 1971, 22' Venture with a swing keel. I had to install 4" x 4" boards on the bottom of the trailer to guide the keel straight onto the trailer. Mine are about 12' long, one on each side of the keel. They stick out about 2' beyond the bunker and end at about the forward end of the keel (when on the trailer.) They are in a "v" to simplify guiding the boat into the correct location. In my case it was very difficult to drive the boat onto the trailer since there are no finger docks to come into. I also placed 2" guides near the end of the trailer so I can see when I am lined up correctly. I still find that I have to come onto the trailer "hot" to drive it up to the "v" on the winch. I also raised the winch about 4". Good luck with yours. Novelman
keel guide
I do have something like that. They are a couple of 4 x 2 (or something like that) nailed together in kind of an inverted-L shape and mounted on the trailer. The keel should slide in between them and nicely fit. I think I'm going in deep with the trailer so the keel is still floating well above the guides, then when I pull it out, the keel lands on them and bends it over (bending the nails) and ending up one side of the V-cradle. When pulling out of the water, the winch is much higher than the bow ring, so the strap is over the rubber V and digs into it. So therefore, I think I'm not deep enough - which then causes the keel missing the cradle. One thing solve, the other messed up! I got a lot to learn still, but just need practice.
I do have something like that. They are a couple of 4 x 2 (or something like that) nailed together in kind of an inverted-L shape and mounted on the trailer. The keel should slide in between them and nicely fit. I think I'm going in deep with the trailer so the keel is still floating well above the guides, then when I pull it out, the keel lands on them and bends it over (bending the nails) and ending up one side of the V-cradle. When pulling out of the water, the winch is much higher than the bow ring, so the strap is over the rubber V and digs into it. So therefore, I think I'm not deep enough - which then causes the keel missing the cradle. One thing solve, the other messed up! I got a lot to learn still, but just need practice.
reguarding the gap
I too have a trailerable sailboat. After cranking the boat onto the trailer, pull forward several feet to allow the boat to settle on the bunks then crank it the rest of the way up to the rubber stopper (might also look at a roller stopper,about 30 bucks at WM). May also need to get a new/heavier winch, that thing looks a bit puny. Not knowing specifics of your vessel I would recommend at least a 2000 lbs winch (bigger the better).
I too have a trailerable sailboat. After cranking the boat onto the trailer, pull forward several feet to allow the boat to settle on the bunks then crank it the rest of the way up to the rubber stopper (might also look at a roller stopper,about 30 bucks at WM). May also need to get a new/heavier winch, that thing looks a bit puny. Not knowing specifics of your vessel I would recommend at least a 2000 lbs winch (bigger the better).
cranking
Ok, that sounds like a good idea. I was told that I should let the stern float when launching, and note where the trailer is at, then put it the same depth when picking it up again. Didn't seem to work that well I guess. I do need to get a new winch, the "click click" latching mechanism seems to have a worn spring, so I have to shove the lever into the gear manually to lock it in place. Could be painful if that pops out and someone gets smacked with that handle. When I got it cranked up to the rubber and pulled it out, the boat would slide back and put a huge amount of tension on the strap. Then when I released some tension, the boat would "snap back" and the bow would raise up a few more inches. Anyone have any ideas about the hull? I did find some info on the catalina22 association (they have an excellent forum!) that someone called that "coining" and it happened to a guy's boat when the bunk was getting rotten and soft. Sounds the same as my thing, but my bunk is fine, I just had a bolt caught in between. They said it was no big deal since it would work it's way back into the normal shape. Hopefully I didn't screw anything up but it scared me when I found that! Tom
Ok, that sounds like a good idea. I was told that I should let the stern float when launching, and note where the trailer is at, then put it the same depth when picking it up again. Didn't seem to work that well I guess. I do need to get a new winch, the "click click" latching mechanism seems to have a worn spring, so I have to shove the lever into the gear manually to lock it in place. Could be painful if that pops out and someone gets smacked with that handle. When I got it cranked up to the rubber and pulled it out, the boat would slide back and put a huge amount of tension on the strap. Then when I released some tension, the boat would "snap back" and the bow would raise up a few more inches. Anyone have any ideas about the hull? I did find some info on the catalina22 association (they have an excellent forum!) that someone called that "coining" and it happened to a guy's boat when the bunk was getting rotten and soft. Sounds the same as my thing, but my bunk is fine, I just had a bolt caught in between. They said it was no big deal since it would work it's way back into the normal shape. Hopefully I didn't screw anything up but it scared me when I found that! Tom
Trailer Woes
Check this link for ideas on how to get your boat centered on the trailer. http://kobernus.com/hunter260/trailer1/trailer1.html Most (if not all) boats slide back a little when making that final pull up the ramp. Not to worry. The boat will slide forward easily again if you do a quick stop or two on the way back home. After a few miles, I ALWAYS stop to check the boat and usually find the boat has slid forward to the bow stop. Here's some other tips for trailering that apply to all trailor sailors: http://kobernus.com/hunter260/travel/travel.html Another tip: Don't rely on the winch strap - I always put a safety chain through the eye bolt in the event the winch does not lock. Regarding the bolt indentation in the hull. Fiberglass is strong and flexible. If there are no cracks on the exterior where the bolt was, I'd just keep an eye on it and enjoy sailing. It's unlikely that you'll suddenly spring a leak.
Check this link for ideas on how to get your boat centered on the trailer. http://kobernus.com/hunter260/trailer1/trailer1.html Most (if not all) boats slide back a little when making that final pull up the ramp. Not to worry. The boat will slide forward easily again if you do a quick stop or two on the way back home. After a few miles, I ALWAYS stop to check the boat and usually find the boat has slid forward to the bow stop. Here's some other tips for trailering that apply to all trailor sailors: http://kobernus.com/hunter260/travel/travel.html Another tip: Don't rely on the winch strap - I always put a safety chain through the eye bolt in the event the winch does not lock. Regarding the bolt indentation in the hull. Fiberglass is strong and flexible. If there are no cracks on the exterior where the bolt was, I'd just keep an eye on it and enjoy sailing. It's unlikely that you'll suddenly spring a leak.
Where I had a weak hull
I went in and put a 2X2 rib, to reinforce the fiberglass and get its original shape! Strengthened the hull to a better than new situation! 2X2 doesnt take up hardly any room at all either and if your boat comes to rest on that area, with regards to the trailer bunks, with the rib it wont indent anymore! As to the boat not getting up on the trailer all the way, what I discovered, was that once you have it pulled all the way up, the weight of the keel will pull it back when you tow it out of the water, unless you let the keel down at that point! The keel weight pulls the nose of the boat up once out of the water! The boat will rock on the bunks, with the keel up, put it down on the trailer frame and that stops!
I went in and put a 2X2 rib, to reinforce the fiberglass and get its original shape! Strengthened the hull to a better than new situation! 2X2 doesnt take up hardly any room at all either and if your boat comes to rest on that area, with regards to the trailer bunks, with the rib it wont indent anymore! As to the boat not getting up on the trailer all the way, what I discovered, was that once you have it pulled all the way up, the weight of the keel will pull it back when you tow it out of the water, unless you let the keel down at that point! The keel weight pulls the nose of the boat up once out of the water! The boat will rock on the bunks, with the keel up, put it down on the trailer frame and that stops!
GET SOME EXACT TRAILER MEASUREMENTS
Hopefully "NOVELMAN" may be able to help you out there. Make sure that your bunk boards are supporting the hull in the same position as his, height above keel support and width. Your keel guides need to be strong, if they are bending over you need to beef them up. See if you can mount some sockets for some pvc pipe to fit into, like regular 1 1/5 or 2" white pvc plumbing pipe, the further back the better.standing like goal posts that can act as a guide. I don't know if you are trying to put the boat on the trailer yourself, but if you have a helper it is a lot easier. Get the boat straight with the trailer, being up against the rubber snubber on the winch is not important at this stage. Pull forward about a foot at a time, this is where a helper driving the tow vehicle comes in handy. While the vehicle is stopped stand on the trailer wheel fender and put your hands on the hull to deck joint, then go to the other side stand on the fender and see if the boat feels centered. Then pull up a little bit and and repeat the process, you will feel when the boat's weight is on the trailer, ease out and look it over. You dont need to be tight against the snubber you are just checking so see how you are sitting on the trailer. If you like the way it is centered, put some tension on the winch strap and back into the water again and let the strap pull the boat when the boat lifts a little in the water. If you have the boat sitting solid on the keel support and the bunk boards, and close to the snubber like your link showed you are o.k.. check periodically and if it slides up tight take up the slack. I think your hull will be o.k.. It is not a big deal to put new bunk boards, i use 2x6" treated pine wrap it with the strongest scrap carpet i can find and use all stainless steel hardware to attach everything. If any of the supports are rotten replace them. There are some links for taking the boat off the trailer without putting it in the water. You can lower the hitch of the trailer, support the transom, and when you raise the hitch the rear of the trailer will drop away from the boat.If your winch is suspect, replace it, don't mess around with faulty equipment.
Hopefully "NOVELMAN" may be able to help you out there. Make sure that your bunk boards are supporting the hull in the same position as his, height above keel support and width. Your keel guides need to be strong, if they are bending over you need to beef them up. See if you can mount some sockets for some pvc pipe to fit into, like regular 1 1/5 or 2" white pvc plumbing pipe, the further back the better.standing like goal posts that can act as a guide. I don't know if you are trying to put the boat on the trailer yourself, but if you have a helper it is a lot easier. Get the boat straight with the trailer, being up against the rubber snubber on the winch is not important at this stage. Pull forward about a foot at a time, this is where a helper driving the tow vehicle comes in handy. While the vehicle is stopped stand on the trailer wheel fender and put your hands on the hull to deck joint, then go to the other side stand on the fender and see if the boat feels centered. Then pull up a little bit and and repeat the process, you will feel when the boat's weight is on the trailer, ease out and look it over. You dont need to be tight against the snubber you are just checking so see how you are sitting on the trailer. If you like the way it is centered, put some tension on the winch strap and back into the water again and let the strap pull the boat when the boat lifts a little in the water. If you have the boat sitting solid on the keel support and the bunk boards, and close to the snubber like your link showed you are o.k.. check periodically and if it slides up tight take up the slack. I think your hull will be o.k.. It is not a big deal to put new bunk boards, i use 2x6" treated pine wrap it with the strongest scrap carpet i can find and use all stainless steel hardware to attach everything. If any of the supports are rotten replace them. There are some links for taking the boat off the trailer without putting it in the water. You can lower the hitch of the trailer, support the transom, and when you raise the hitch the rear of the trailer will drop away from the boat.If your winch is suspect, replace it, don't mess around with faulty equipment.
hull and trailer stuff....
Thanks for the tips (and reassureance on my hull). I'll try to comment on all the messages. My bunks are 2 x 6 treated lumber that is bolted on the supports with some of that fake grass stuff wrapped around them. I think the nut wiggled loose and fell off allowing the board to pop up a little in the middle and probably bounced the bolt out of place. I looked carefully and didn't see any damage on the inside under the seat. I'll have to swim under the boat this summer when the water is warmer and check the hull over where the bunk blocks the view. I do have my girlfriend help with the launching. She has to walk with a cane from a car accident a few years ago, so she can either pull on the line or push with her cane to keep it centered. I do think that one of the 2 next things i'll get is a new winch as well as the goal-post guides. I'm sure I could do it solo with those guides if I needed to. It just seems to need a little nudge to keep it centered. Winch strap - no, I don't rely totally on that thing. Just when I pull it out of the water, then I put a rope over the bow as a little extra insurance. I found that if I did that when pulling the boat out, I put a lot of strain on the cleats, so I only did that once. But before towing home, I'll put a rope on there just snug, so if the strap goes, it won't go anywhere. Does it seem normal when first learning this stuff to always feel that you are one step away from disaster? Hehe! I guess I'm just very nervous about my new toy and have to get used to it. My next project is to install a new winch/tube/ball and cable for the keel lifting. Should be too hard, but I'm sure I'll do something to make it harder than it should. Stay tuned for more silly questions here though. Thanks for all the advice! Tom
Thanks for the tips (and reassureance on my hull). I'll try to comment on all the messages. My bunks are 2 x 6 treated lumber that is bolted on the supports with some of that fake grass stuff wrapped around them. I think the nut wiggled loose and fell off allowing the board to pop up a little in the middle and probably bounced the bolt out of place. I looked carefully and didn't see any damage on the inside under the seat. I'll have to swim under the boat this summer when the water is warmer and check the hull over where the bunk blocks the view. I do have my girlfriend help with the launching. She has to walk with a cane from a car accident a few years ago, so she can either pull on the line or push with her cane to keep it centered. I do think that one of the 2 next things i'll get is a new winch as well as the goal-post guides. I'm sure I could do it solo with those guides if I needed to. It just seems to need a little nudge to keep it centered. Winch strap - no, I don't rely totally on that thing. Just when I pull it out of the water, then I put a rope over the bow as a little extra insurance. I found that if I did that when pulling the boat out, I put a lot of strain on the cleats, so I only did that once. But before towing home, I'll put a rope on there just snug, so if the strap goes, it won't go anywhere. Does it seem normal when first learning this stuff to always feel that you are one step away from disaster? Hehe! I guess I'm just very nervous about my new toy and have to get used to it. My next project is to install a new winch/tube/ball and cable for the keel lifting. Should be too hard, but I'm sure I'll do something to make it harder than it should. Stay tuned for more silly questions here though. Thanks for all the advice! Tom
Strong winches are cheap,
and Catalina 22s are strong. Maybe replace your bow eye and put big washers under the nuts on the hull side. I often have a gap in the fron after I haul out. I just tighten the strap, drive a bit, tighten the strap etc. until the boat works its way forward. As long as you have the boat secured to the trailer, a couple fo inches from the front stop is OK unless you have no tongue weight. You need a line or chain from the bow to the trailer, in addition to the winch strap, lines aft around the transom or attached to stern cleats to keep her from sliding off, and a couple of lines or straps around the boat, one forward and one aft. Stop frequently (when you come to a stop sign or to an off ramp, not every 5 minutes) to check for loose or broken lines and straps. You'll get a feel for your rig and trailer. They hardly ever fall off the trailer. Much more likely to shove you around on wet pavement when you try to stop.
and Catalina 22s are strong. Maybe replace your bow eye and put big washers under the nuts on the hull side. I often have a gap in the fron after I haul out. I just tighten the strap, drive a bit, tighten the strap etc. until the boat works its way forward. As long as you have the boat secured to the trailer, a couple fo inches from the front stop is OK unless you have no tongue weight. You need a line or chain from the bow to the trailer, in addition to the winch strap, lines aft around the transom or attached to stern cleats to keep her from sliding off, and a couple of lines or straps around the boat, one forward and one aft. Stop frequently (when you come to a stop sign or to an off ramp, not every 5 minutes) to check for loose or broken lines and straps. You'll get a feel for your rig and trailer. They hardly ever fall off the trailer. Much more likely to shove you around on wet pavement when you try to stop.
One step away from disaster
That feeling will lessen after a few launch/retrievals (not sure it ever goes away, at least as long as it is your boat at risk). Alot of good suggetions here. Reguarding the suggetion of replacement of your bow eye, I did not replace mine but I did reenforce it. Used a 6-7" piece of 3/4 pipe (got mine free, was a scrap at Home Depot) drilled 2 holes in it and used it as a Heavy Duty backing plate on the inside of the hull. If my bow eye comes out its taking the front of the boat with it. Planning a sail tomorrow myself if this rain stops. Hope you folks from the frozen north thaw soon and can get out on the water. Good Luck to you and Happy sailing.
That feeling will lessen after a few launch/retrievals (not sure it ever goes away, at least as long as it is your boat at risk). Alot of good suggetions here. Reguarding the suggetion of replacement of your bow eye, I did not replace mine but I did reenforce it. Used a 6-7" piece of 3/4 pipe (got mine free, was a scrap at Home Depot) drilled 2 holes in it and used it as a Heavy Duty backing plate on the inside of the hull. If my bow eye comes out its taking the front of the boat with it. Planning a sail tomorrow myself if this rain stops. Hope you folks from the frozen north thaw soon and can get out on the water. Good Luck to you and Happy sailing.
Bow eye
I did do some work on the bow eye a couple weeks ago. I was looking at the inside of it from the v-berth and noticed that there was just a fairly small washer that was kind of digging into the wood chunk up there. I removed it all, added a washer and cut out a 1.5x1.5 inch chunk of galvanized metal plate to make a larger "washer", and put a lock nut on the end of it. It's nice and tight now and shouldn't pull out at all. I replaced my keel cable, ball, winch and tube tonight. Easier than I expected! I just worried longer than it took to do it. So, now I don't have to worry about a falling keel taking the boat to the bottom. Next project is the trailer winch and probably some kind of guide posts on the back. One small step at a time, but I'm getting there. I just need some decent weather to learn the sailing part and launch/pickup. Fun stuff though! Tom
I did do some work on the bow eye a couple weeks ago. I was looking at the inside of it from the v-berth and noticed that there was just a fairly small washer that was kind of digging into the wood chunk up there. I removed it all, added a washer and cut out a 1.5x1.5 inch chunk of galvanized metal plate to make a larger "washer", and put a lock nut on the end of it. It's nice and tight now and shouldn't pull out at all. I replaced my keel cable, ball, winch and tube tonight. Easier than I expected! I just worried longer than it took to do it. So, now I don't have to worry about a falling keel taking the boat to the bottom. Next project is the trailer winch and probably some kind of guide posts on the back. One small step at a time, but I'm getting there. I just need some decent weather to learn the sailing part and launch/pickup. Fun stuff though! Tom
use a cable winch
To get rid of your "gap" try two things. First use a cable wire winch in lieu of the fabric one- it does not stretch as much. Second, crank it up tight while in the water, pull out a little, recrank; refloat slightly and crank it up the final amount. That should get it as close as possible. As others have said, the safety is a must.
To get rid of your "gap" try two things. First use a cable wire winch in lieu of the fabric one- it does not stretch as much. Second, crank it up tight while in the water, pull out a little, recrank; refloat slightly and crank it up the final amount. That should get it as close as possible. As others have said, the safety is a must.
winch
Yep. The new winch as well as "goal posts" are my next 2 things I have on my list of improvements to do on the boat.
Yep. The new winch as well as "goal posts" are my next 2 things I have on my list of improvements to do on the boat.
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