trailer brake overhaul

[walt]

Ive got the original 26S trailer with surge brakes - but the surge brakes don't work. Boat is going into a slip soon for a month this weekend so the brakes are the next job.

Im looking at the option of having this professionally done. Im going to get a quote but am wondering if someone else has already had this done and about what they paid?

Ie, Im specifically looking for what other paid to have the surge brakes on the trailer professionally overhauled.

 

[Sumner]

Walt do you know what part of the system is not working? If it is the coupler part I think you can buy those new for a little over a hundred and it should be pretty straight forward putting it on and bleeding the brakes.

If it is more and you have the drum brakes have you considered going to disc brakes? I just got these for the 2nd axle I'm putting on. You can get the whole kit, everything you need for a little over $400 and going from what you have to that would be less than a day job and would give you new hubs, bearings, brake lines and the coupler besides the disc brakes. It is basically all a bolt on job.

Talk to a couple shops and get estimates, but if it is anywhere near the above figures do it yourself. The only touchy thing for some people at first is bleeding the brakes. I've done lots on cars, but haven't done the ones with this kit yet, but don't anticipate any problems.

Here is where I got my kit and their prices vary week to week for some reason. I paid about $370 plus freight (little over $400 total)......

http://www.blackbearsportinggoods.com/ShoppingCart.asp

I see they are $442 now and were about $407 a month ago and less when I bought. If you go this route tell them that a friend got the kit with shipping for $410 and will they match that.

Google the Tie Down kit and you will see that most people had very little trouble unbolting the old brakes and installing the kit.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[walt]

Sumner, thanks. Attached is a picture of my coupler from when I was looking at the boat and I believe it is welded on to the frame of the trailer. I know mine is bone dry and wont hold fluid and it may be that just replacing the coupler and the lines would be be enough to get things working.

But if the old coupler needs to be cut off, its not something I want to tackle. Have you dealt with the coupler yet on your trailer - is it the same as mine?

 

[Sumner]

.....But if the old coupler needs to be cut off, its not something I want to tackle. Have you dealt with the coupler yet on your trailer - is it the same as mine?

Yes it does look to be welded on and that will present some problems. My trailer didn't have brakes, but the coupler is welded on to save on construction costs. I'll just cut my tongue off right behind the present coupler and then bolt the new one on and it will end up being about an inch longer to the ball socket than it is now. I'll also have to modify my ladder so that it is like yours.

You don't have much wiggle room on yours except I think you do have a mig don't you. I think by blowing up your picture I can see where they just plug welded the holes where the bolts should be. Those would need to be drilled out and then the welds cut with a cut-off wheel or use a thin (1/8 inch or less) grinding disc in an angle grinder to cut the welds. Since I wouldn't be concerned with keeping the old coupler assembly I would cut it above the welds and then just grind down the part that is still welded to the frame to the point that you have a flat surface to put the new coupler on. The new one might line up with the old holes or if not drill new ones and my instructions say to use a grade 5 bolt. I'm going to bolt it on so that I can get it off in the future if needed. You would only need the welder in case you had to weld part of a present hole shut if it overlapped where you needed a new hole.

If you didn't want to do that I'd take it to a welding shop that works on trailers and have them cut it off, drill holes and then bolt on the new one that maybe you brought along as I'll bet you can find one for less than what they would want to sell you one. Then drive home and maybe finish the job. Make sure it is ok to drive with the coupler not having fluid in it. I'll bet the labor should be an hour or less to do the replace and you would have a new coupler. Just a suggestion.

The other thing I'm doing is cutting off that vertical tongue jack like the one in your picture. There again it is welded on to save MacGregor money. Mine works, but I hate this arrangement. I'll weld a bracket on the tongue and put on a ......

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1S4BQR5HTXG69VTT2G51

....swing tongue jack. These are so much nicer as they swing up and out of the way, so no more dragging the bottom of the jack in dips. Also if it stops working unbolt it and put on a new one.

c ya and good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[caguy]

Do you really need brakes for a 26s?
I can tell you parts are not bad. Backing plate shoes and cylinder are about $60 ea. They come pre-assemble and bolt on and off with just 4 bolts. Doesn't get much easier. New master cyl is about $85 also 4 bolts. Feel ambitious? rebuilt kit is $24.

Here is a source for parts. http://www.pacifictrailers.com/swing-hinge-foldaway-tongue-kits/

 

[Mike B1026]

I was going to rebuild my brakes but procrastinated a few years. Since I pull mine with a Yukon and the scales shows a weight of 3100 lbs, I haven't really seemed to need those brakes. I hauled it back to South Texas from Denver. Did't have any issues but I wasn't in ice or rain either.

 

[walt]

I tow with a Dodge Dakota 4x4 and wouldnt worry about the brakes except that I have to go over mountain passes - one I think gets up near 11K feet. However.. Ive towed the boat over these passes for the last three years without much problem but I think I should get the trailer brakes working.

The coupler doesnt look easy to service.. Im sort of liking the idea of grinding it off and replacing with a new one.

The trailer frame tubing up there is 3 inch square.

 

[Sumner]

..........The coupler doesnt look easy to service.. Im sort of liking the idea of grinding it off and replacing with a new one.

The trailer frame tubing up there is 3 inch square.

I think that is a good idea. It looks like you plan on keeping the boat/trailer for some time to come and hope to be taking longer trips with it and starting a new might be a good plan.

Here is something to consider though that I didn't think of before....

http://www.championtrailers.com/DISC_BRAKE_INSTALLATION_ARTICLE.HTM

..... if you have drum brakes vs. disc brakes you have to match the coupler, actually the master cylinder and maybe some residual valves as the drums have springs that pull the wheel cylinders back and the disc's don't and you don't want the pads to drag.

I called Champion and they said the DICO/TITAN® - MODEL 10 and 20 could have the master cylinders swapped later if you change from drums to disc.......

http://www.championtrailers.com/Brake_Couplers.html

....but those are expensive. Probably cheaper if you didn't want to go to disc now to use one of the cheaper 6000# ones above that are about $125 and just change it out. Anyway you could just do the switch to disc now?

I'd also call Tie Down....

http://www.tiedown.com/

... and see if they had a ................

http://www.tiedown.com/aactuator.html

........model that could be use with both with out too much additional expense.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[walt]

I pulled the coupler apart and its trashed. It looks to be the same as the Titan Dico model 60 (mine has DICO stamped in the metal)

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=4428&categoryID=0http://www.championtrailers.com/dico_brake_coupler_parts.htm

I think Im going to purchase a new Titan model 60 and just use the guts in my existing housing if possible. If not, Ill grind it off.

You can get parts but I think just buying the whole assembly is going to be easiest http://www.championtrailers.com/dico_brake_coupler_parts.htm

Im going to stick with the existing drum brakes

 

[Sumner]

........I think I'm going to purchase a new Titan model 60 and just use the guts in my existing housing if possible. If not, Ill grind it off.

You can get parts but I think just buying the whole assembly is going to be easiest...

Sounds like the smartest thing to do as if you can't make the parts work you will have the whole thing. Good price and if that is all you are going to have into it probably not worth switching to discs. How are the lines and brakes themselves?

I just got done cutting coupler off the trailer tongue and drilled holes to mount the surge coupler. I'll do that tomorrow.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[walt]

Picture of the drum brakes that were I believe stock on this trailer (1990).

I believe I can get all the parts for rebuild of the assembly at the wheels at local auto parts stores so only need to order the coupler assembly??

 

[Sumner]

Picture of the drum brakes that were I believe stock on this trailer (1990).

I believe I can get all the parts for rebuild of the assembly at the wheels at local auto parts stores so only need to order the coupler assembly??

Are there numbers, manufacturer's name or anything? They will probably need something to go by. If the autoparts store has a problem I'd go to a trailer supply or in my case maybe e-mail the pictures to Champion and see if they think they have parts.

Take good pictures like you did there for both sides before pulling it all apart. You will think you will remember how all of that re-attaches, but when it comes time to put it all back together it might be a different story, ask me how I know :cry:. I usually do one side at a time that way I can walk around and look at the other side.

Actually they look quite good and the pads look real good, as they should if they weren't ever applying . I might be temped to put the coupler on and new lines if it needs them and try them out. I'd disconnect the lines at the wheel cylinder and pump some fluid through them from the coupler end to see how clean they are inside.

How are the drums on the inside?

If you don't have one get one of these....

They don't cost much and it is way easier than trying to use screw drivers and such to reassemble the springs and hangers. If you haven't used one the pointed end of the tool on the top right side digs into the pad and the other end will pull the string off or on and you can also use the bottom of the handle to put the springs back on. The bottom right side will help you put on the keepers for those side springs that stick straight out (shoe hold down springs).

Good luck,

Sum

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[flynfol]

You might want to replace that inner axle seal too. Be careful when pumping grease into you bearing buddies if you have them. Grease inside the brake housing is not very conducive to good braking:cry:

 

[timebandit]

I replace the old brake fluid with dot 5 by draining and then flushing a couple of quarts of alcohol and then installing the dot 5.

Does not absorb water.

Can DOT 5 Brake Fluid Be Used Instead of DOT 3 or 4?
Always refer to vehicle owner's manual for what the manufacturer recommends or warns against. As a rule, vehicles equipped with antilock brakes (ABS) should not use DOT 5 brake fluid.
DOT 5 brake fluid is silicone based. DOT 3 (standard) and DOT 4 (heavy-duty) are glycol-based. It can be distinguished from conventional brake fluids by its purple color (which comes from a dye).
Silicone does not absorb moisture. DOT 5 brake fluid does not become contaminated with moisture over time as conventional DOT 3 and 4 brake fluids do. Silicone is also chemically inert, nontoxic and won't damage paint like conventional brake fluid. It also has a higher boiling point.
Because of this, it is often marketed as a premium "lifetime" brake fluid. It is often used to preserve brake systems in antique vehicles and those that sit for long periods of time between use.
DOT 5 silicone brake fluid is also very expensive (costing four to five times as much as ordinary brake fluid), and it won't mix with glyco- based brake fluid (creating concern over sludging if all old fluid isn't removed when a system is refilled with silicone).
Silicone also has slightly different physical properties and compressibility, making it unsuitable for ABS systems calibrated to work with DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid.

 

[walt]

Brake job drama update..

Received the Titan model 60 coupler for drum brakes, it was relatively simple to swap out the guts - no grinding or welding (this is a stock 26S 1990 trailer ordered with the surge brakes).

I also ordered new aluminum cylinders for the wheels - at least the fit is good so far.

I put brake fluid in the master cylinder and the pumped some fluid through the lines. What is coming out the open brake line near the the wheel looks "rusty". I am just planning to pump about a cup through on each side before hooking up the brake line. Maybe I should replace all the line.. I sure hope not however..

 

[Sumner]

Walt that looks great!! I'll bet you are happy about the things all fitting.

Personally I wouldn't hook the lines to the brake cylinders until you can get clean fluid coming out of them. Here is something you might think about getting....

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39522

.......It would sure make the job easier and you could pump for a while and see if you can get the lines cleaned out. I have that one, but they also have another one.....

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92474

....that is a little cheaper that might also work. These are great for bleeding the brakes, especially if you want to do it by yourself and make your relationship with one's better half stay in peace .

If you do replace the lines you can get stainless ones. My kit came with the all rubber ones, but if I ever replace them it will be with the stainless ones.

Good luck,

Sum

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[walt]

Much appreciate the advice here.. been helpful.

FYI, here is the brake cylinder part I ordered (and shown in the picture) which at least seems to fit in the stock config http://www.championtrailers.com/DRUM BRAKE COMPONENTS.htm

Ill have to visit an auto parts store about the brake line. Maybe I should just replace it - not in that good of shape.

You can see in one of the pictures my bent up jack stand.. still limping along. Maybe Ill work on it next year.

 

[timebandit]

Walt

Just a note on the safty lanyard, be sure it does NOT get pulled when turning or the brakes will lock up, make sure there is plenty of slack for both left and right tight turns.

 

[Sumner]

..............You can see in one of the pictures my bent up jack stand.. still limping along. Maybe Ill work on it next year.

I cut my "Mac jack" off the other day and replaced it with one ......

...that swivels. I welded on brackets that it bolts to, but you can mount them like in the picture. A good $30-$40 investement and if it is damaged you can unbolt it and put on another one.

Less jacking since as soon as the trailer is supported by the tow vehicle just rotate it up. No more bent jack. I have them on two other trailers and love them,

Sum

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[walt]

Finished up every thing, bled the brakes, put everything back together. I towed the boat a couple days ago about 100 miles including some mountain driving and..

Holy cow.. the brakes seemed to actually work!!! Definitely easier to stop with surge brakes.

Spent a little over $200 on everything.. much appreciated the help I got here.