Well, it's been about a week since anyone talked about topping lifts again. I have read through the archives and seen all the various suggestions. On my boat, the former owner had just replaced the topping lift line. There is no line or cable going through the boom and I have not yet been able to reach him to see how he used to attach the line from the mast to the boom. For now, I have merely looped the line through the end of the boom and snugged it up with a rolling hitch. Since the end of the boom where I have looped it is not designed to have a line tied to it (it's a little sharp for my taste). (The end of the boom has 3 small pulley wheels where the lines are supposed to traverse. Since the topping lift line is not in the boom, I put the topping lift line from the mast through the pulley hole and back up around the end of the mast. Since this is the first year I will be sailing the H23, I want to make as few changes as possible until I learn the boat better. Ron from MPLS suggested attaching two snap hooks to the end of the topping lift and a small loop of line at the end of the boom. Any problems with the hooks snagging on the sail when underway? How did you attach the loop to the end of the boom? Are the jaws at the mast end of the boom truly that "useless"? I could use it as it was designed by snaking a line (good luck) and attaching that to the topping lift. Final question. Where do the rest of you attach the main halyard when not using the main. Again, there's not much at the end of the boom to hook onto. I suppose if I take the "Ron Loop Tooping Lift" approach, I can attache the halyard to that loop as well but that would seem to be a single point of failure. (If the loop broke, neither the topping lift or the main halyard would be attached.
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Ward Niffenegger
I use mine "As Designed"
Maybe it's because I am not experienced enough to know better, but.... my topping lift is used as designed and seems to work just fine. The line goes through the sheave at the end of the boom and comes out the jaws at the mast end of the boom. The jaws have never failed to hold the topping lift tight and release it when I want it to. I figure that's all it's supposed to do anyway. When the main is down and the topping lift is pulled up I pin the main traveler just off center and tighten the main sheet. I then hook the main halyard over the ramshead and tighten it. This seems to keep everything tight, tidy and no flopping around. As for feeding the topping lift line through the boom, I would think a wire or electrical fish tape would make easy work of the task. I completely removed all lines from my boat over the winter to clean them and didn't have much problem getting them back.... In spite of my grandson pulling some of my temporary pull lines out of the mast and boom. My system may not be correct useage, but it works and I don't know any better any how. Ward
Maybe it's because I am not experienced enough to know better, but.... my topping lift is used as designed and seems to work just fine. The line goes through the sheave at the end of the boom and comes out the jaws at the mast end of the boom. The jaws have never failed to hold the topping lift tight and release it when I want it to. I figure that's all it's supposed to do anyway. When the main is down and the topping lift is pulled up I pin the main traveler just off center and tighten the main sheet. I then hook the main halyard over the ramshead and tighten it. This seems to keep everything tight, tidy and no flopping around. As for feeding the topping lift line through the boom, I would think a wire or electrical fish tape would make easy work of the task. I completely removed all lines from my boat over the winter to clean them and didn't have much problem getting them back.... In spite of my grandson pulling some of my temporary pull lines out of the mast and boom. My system may not be correct useage, but it works and I don't know any better any how. Ward
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
Stern Rail
I would hook my main Halyard to the stern rail. It did not flop or bang against the mast.
I would hook my main Halyard to the stern rail. It did not flop or bang against the mast.
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Joel
Couple of questions, Ward..
First one. What is the ramshead? Second. How did you mate the topping lift line from the mast head to the line going through the boom? (Or were you smart enough to have one continuous line all the way through?) Thanks.
First one. What is the ramshead? Second. How did you mate the topping lift line from the mast head to the line going through the boom? (Or were you smart enough to have one continuous line all the way through?) Thanks.
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Ward Niffenegger
rams head etc
The rams head AKA rams horn is found at the gooseneck (this is the fitting that attaches the boom to the mast). There you will find a stainless steel fitting that is bent into two 'U' shapes. One on either side of the boom (this is on the Z spar mast). The purpose of this rams horn is to reef the main sail. The main is lowered and the reef grommet on the main sail is slipped over one of the 'U' shaped rams horns. Having explained this, if you have a stern rail (I don't), I would take Cliffs advice and attach the halyard there for the reasons he states. My method keeps everything tight and shipshape but it is noisy due to slap against the mast. As for the topping lift, Yes, my topping lift line is one piece from the mast head through the boom and out the jaws. My advice is buy a new piece of line that is long enough. It isn't that expensive and having knots in your topping lift would be a major pain. Hope this helps Ward
The rams head AKA rams horn is found at the gooseneck (this is the fitting that attaches the boom to the mast). There you will find a stainless steel fitting that is bent into two 'U' shapes. One on either side of the boom (this is on the Z spar mast). The purpose of this rams horn is to reef the main sail. The main is lowered and the reef grommet on the main sail is slipped over one of the 'U' shaped rams horns. Having explained this, if you have a stern rail (I don't), I would take Cliffs advice and attach the halyard there for the reasons he states. My method keeps everything tight and shipshape but it is noisy due to slap against the mast. As for the topping lift, Yes, my topping lift line is one piece from the mast head through the boom and out the jaws. My advice is buy a new piece of line that is long enough. It isn't that expensive and having knots in your topping lift would be a major pain. Hope this helps Ward
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Joel
One Line Too Late
Doh. I figured you were going to say yours was all one line. Once again, the former owner took very nice care of the boat but didn't always make the right decisions when upgrading equipment. (Did I mention that he reused a switch in fuse panel for the autohelm? Yep. Wrapped the positive lead from the autohelm around the same post that the positive lead from the battery was attached. That means it was always live, right?) So my choices this year (since I do no tplan on unstepping the mast until the end of the season), are back to the "Ron Loop", or use 2 lines and tie/shackle them together.
Doh. I figured you were going to say yours was all one line. Once again, the former owner took very nice care of the boat but didn't always make the right decisions when upgrading equipment. (Did I mention that he reused a switch in fuse panel for the autohelm? Yep. Wrapped the positive lead from the autohelm around the same post that the positive lead from the battery was attached. That means it was always live, right?) So my choices this year (since I do no tplan on unstepping the mast until the end of the season), are back to the "Ron Loop", or use 2 lines and tie/shackle them together.
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Ray Bowles
Joel, I removed my topping lift..
from the boom. On my h26 the port channel and sheave in the boom was for the topping lift. There was about a 16' piece of line coiled at the mast end of the boom, fed through the boom with a clip on the end. This clip was hooked to a fixed length on line hanging from the top of the mast.(the mast line hooked on one of the ramshead fitting when not in use) When clipped together this became the topping lift. You pulled on the line at the boom jam lock to raise the boom and hold it at the desired height when the sail is down. This system interfered with the reef system by involving the ramshead when sailing. I removed this topping lift line from the boom and used a line from the mast top with a loop in it for the topping lift. When sailing I use a small bungee line in this loop and attach it to the mast base to hold the topping lift out of the way. I now use that boom line channel for my second reef line. Works much better for us as where we sail the second reef is used quite offten. Ray
from the boom. On my h26 the port channel and sheave in the boom was for the topping lift. There was about a 16' piece of line coiled at the mast end of the boom, fed through the boom with a clip on the end. This clip was hooked to a fixed length on line hanging from the top of the mast.(the mast line hooked on one of the ramshead fitting when not in use) When clipped together this became the topping lift. You pulled on the line at the boom jam lock to raise the boom and hold it at the desired height when the sail is down. This system interfered with the reef system by involving the ramshead when sailing. I removed this topping lift line from the boom and used a line from the mast top with a loop in it for the topping lift. When sailing I use a small bungee line in this loop and attach it to the mast base to hold the topping lift out of the way. I now use that boom line channel for my second reef line. Works much better for us as where we sail the second reef is used quite offten. Ray
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
IF know stern Rail
If you have tried to sleep with a boat that has Halyards banging it is a long night. If you must leave the halyards attached to the mast take a bungee and run it to the upper stay to pull the Halyards away from the mast and they will not bang All Night Long.
If you have tried to sleep with a boat that has Halyards banging it is a long night. If you must leave the halyards attached to the mast take a bungee and run it to the upper stay to pull the Halyards away from the mast and they will not bang All Night Long.
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Ron
Ron Loop Method
Joel, Seems like everyone has a different way to do things - all are probably OK if they work. I have never had any problems with the small snaps interfering with the sail, but the topping lift will hang loose on one side of the sail or the other, but doesn't seem to matter to a cruising sailor like myself. The loop of line at the end of the boom is tied around anything which is enclosed - on the H26, it's a open spot in the end bracket on the boom. I use a small piece of nylon line and it has never broken, but watch for wear. By the way, I tie the main halyard shackle to a life line stantion support bracket on the side of the boat and then tighten it to keep it taut. It keeps is out of the way and won't make noise in the wind. Good luck with all these suggestions!
Joel, Seems like everyone has a different way to do things - all are probably OK if they work. I have never had any problems with the small snaps interfering with the sail, but the topping lift will hang loose on one side of the sail or the other, but doesn't seem to matter to a cruising sailor like myself. The loop of line at the end of the boom is tied around anything which is enclosed - on the H26, it's a open spot in the end bracket on the boom. I use a small piece of nylon line and it has never broken, but watch for wear. By the way, I tie the main halyard shackle to a life line stantion support bracket on the side of the boat and then tighten it to keep it taut. It keeps is out of the way and won't make noise in the wind. Good luck with all these suggestions!
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Keith Smoot
Dump the Topping Lift, Install a Boomkicker
I have mentioned this before, but for refresher; The topping lift is properly run from the masthead fitting down to the aft end of the boom, through a sheave, forward inside the boom, exiting through a camlock leaver. Fold the leaver back and pull the line to raise the boom to reef or raise the main. Works, but is another line to mess with. Better to remove the topping lift altogether, install a Boomkicker inside the boom vang, then send the mainsail to a sailmaker and have a second reefing point installed. Use th former topping lift sheave and camlock leaver as the second reefing line, following the example of the first reefing line. Boomkicker, $130 plus shipping, mainsail modifications about $100. Smoother mainsail raising, fewer lines to mess with, flatter sailing in heavy winds, happier wife. Keith and Wanda S/V Gwaihir 87 H-23
I have mentioned this before, but for refresher; The topping lift is properly run from the masthead fitting down to the aft end of the boom, through a sheave, forward inside the boom, exiting through a camlock leaver. Fold the leaver back and pull the line to raise the boom to reef or raise the main. Works, but is another line to mess with. Better to remove the topping lift altogether, install a Boomkicker inside the boom vang, then send the mainsail to a sailmaker and have a second reefing point installed. Use th former topping lift sheave and camlock leaver as the second reefing line, following the example of the first reefing line. Boomkicker, $130 plus shipping, mainsail modifications about $100. Smoother mainsail raising, fewer lines to mess with, flatter sailing in heavy winds, happier wife. Keith and Wanda S/V Gwaihir 87 H-23
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Bob Grogan
I am a fan of the boom kicker
I sail a hunter 23 for pleasure, and crew on a b25 when we race. The owner just installed a boom kicker this season. Removing the extra weight of a toping lift from the rigging. The Kicker is GREAT! You never have to worry about the boom dropping and crashing into the cockpit when raising/lowering the sail. And Reefing is much simpler. Note You must have a boom vang if using a kicker.
I sail a hunter 23 for pleasure, and crew on a b25 when we race. The owner just installed a boom kicker this season. Removing the extra weight of a toping lift from the rigging. The Kicker is GREAT! You never have to worry about the boom dropping and crashing into the cockpit when raising/lowering the sail. And Reefing is much simpler. Note You must have a boom vang if using a kicker.
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Mike
Toppin lift
I agree with Ward. I use the topping lift rig just as hunter designed it and have no problems.As for fishing the lines through the boom, it's raely simple if you just remove the boom and tilt it down when feeding the lines through. Mike
I agree with Ward. I use the topping lift rig just as hunter designed it and have no problems.As for fishing the lines through the boom, it's raely simple if you just remove the boom and tilt it down when feeding the lines through. Mike
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Joel
One final question
For Mike and Ward. What size / type of line have you used for the in-boom topping lift? It looks like 7/16 should do it. I wonder if those who have decided not to use it "as designed" went with a line which was either too thin or too thick.
For Mike and Ward. What size / type of line have you used for the in-boom topping lift? It looks like 7/16 should do it. I wonder if those who have decided not to use it "as designed" went with a line which was either too thin or too thick.
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Ward Niffenegger
Memory Fading ... But
Joel, I don't have access to the boat right now, but I think the topping lift line is 3/8". It is certainly not bigger than 7/16" It doesn't need to be too big. It just holds up the boom when the main sail is down. My length is such that when the main is up, I loosen the topping lift jaw and let all the line loose until the stopper knot hits the topping lift jaw in the boom. This way I can't confuse the topping lift line with any other lines coming out of the boom. The topping lift line flops slightly behind the main sail but doesn't seem to effect performance. At least for no better than I can sail anyway...... Ward
Joel, I don't have access to the boat right now, but I think the topping lift line is 3/8". It is certainly not bigger than 7/16" It doesn't need to be too big. It just holds up the boom when the main sail is down. My length is such that when the main is up, I loosen the topping lift jaw and let all the line loose until the stopper knot hits the topping lift jaw in the boom. This way I can't confuse the topping lift line with any other lines coming out of the boom. The topping lift line flops slightly behind the main sail but doesn't seem to effect performance. At least for no better than I can sail anyway...... Ward
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mikeepp
boomkicker installation
Keith.........I've been considering the boomkicker. You've about convinced me. How difficult was the install. Did you have to cut it? Did you have to drill into the mast or boom?
Keith.........I've been considering the boomkicker. You've about convinced me. How difficult was the install. Did you have to cut it? Did you have to drill into the mast or boom?
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