Topping lift Block

[Blitz]

SBO forum members:

I was wondering if many of you upgrade your topping lift to include a block for better purchase and what size block do you use??? Lots of blocks after sized for line size also have sheave size and not sure if should go to a standard suggestion or something else.

To give you a better idea, I have a Kenyon boom in which the topping lift is adjusted up near the mast end in a cam type set-up, in which a 3/8" line runs through the boom to the tail end of the boom up a few feet to a eye in a fixed cable.

any suggestions?

Neal
34' Seidelmann 1984

 

[sailingdog]

The topping lift on my boat runs up the mast and exits near the top. I recently upgraded the block from a small cheek block to a larger block mounted on a padeye to accommodate my new topping lift, which is a 10 mm line. The advantage of having a topping lift that goes to the masthead or close to it is that it can act as a backup main halyard.

 

[BobM]

My boat also has a Kenyon rig, but has a fixed topping lift terminating in an eye. It is a pain, because there really wasn't a good way to connect it to the boom. The PO just had a piece of small line. I added a clip shackle, but still need to lift the boom to attach it. Another S2 owner gave me the idea of attaching a small block to the end of the topping lift then running a line through it which he terminated in a cam cleat. I must admit, I was a little bit leary of using a cam cleat for this application, but the owner reported no issues.

I looked at installing a cam cleat at the end of the boom and there is a raised K for Kenyon on the end I'd probably have to grind off. Therefore I bought a flag cleat that I will try mounting on the backstay to secure it (left picture). Alternately I will add a cleat to the boom and run the topping lift through the center with a stopper knot (right picture), but the flag / wire mount cleat requires the least amount of labor. I could also add a cam cleat on the side. See attached (middle picture).

The fixed topping lift is otherwise a pain as it wraps around everything and is generally in the way.

Hope these are helpful...or at least get others involved.

Bob

 

[Blitz]

I plan on installing a block at the end of the fixed portion of the topping lift. The line for adjustment will be attached to the end of the boom, go up through this block, but then down again to the end of the boom in which a sheave turns it toward the mast end of the boom that gets cam cleated off. The adjustment is up near the mast since you would be there anyway during reefing in my case.

What size block do you use?

 

[BobM]

To be frank, I will probably try whatever I have lying around....but small and strong is likely the way to go. If I bought new I'd probably consider a small Ronstan block ($20-40). This is probably okay, as it is only going to be holding up the boom/sail at anchor. The 30 series has a working strength of over 600lbs and a breaking strength of roughly twice that. From a sail control perspective, as I recall, Don said the topping lift can be used to cheat a little in light winds. By raising the boom you can belly the sail a little. I think a block of this size would be okay for such a purpose in light airs.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

As you can see in the photo, I have a fixed wire cable attached to a pin at the mast head. The bottom end is an eye where I have a small Ronstan block. I think you can go as small as you feel comfortable with, in my case it's probably the smallest block they make. I currently have a 3/8" line with an eye splice attached to a pin on the boom fitting. It runs up to the block and down to a cheek block mounted on the boom (on the other side that you can't see. The line runs forward to a regular small cleat about 3' from the mast. I've thought about changing the location so that it is convenient to setting it from the cockpit but haven't got a round tuit. Also, a 1/4" line is more than adequate and I'll be making that change, too. In the picture, you can see the line drooping as it is slack.

I have never set the topping lift for reefing; but have noted that some think it is an essential step. I'm going to see how that works for me. I have to go up to the mast for reefing, but I generally am on the other side of the boom so I don't think the current location of my topping lift cleat is good for that either so I still intend to move it back to a location that I can adjust from the cockpit. Of course, I can reach my boom easily from my cockpit so I think that makes a difference ... I don't have to stand on the coach roof or one of the seats to reach the height of the boom.

 

[Roger Long]

My boat also has a Kenyon rig.

Well, then it's actually pretty simple.

Replace the block on the end boom casting with one that has a becket. I used a small S.S. block for 1/4" line attached with a small screw pin shackle which can be made up int the tight space.

A similar block without a becket shackled to the end of the standing topping lift wire.

A piece of 1/4" braid which has good abrasion resistance is best for the first part of the topping lift. This requires splicing to the becket of the block but they will do this at West Marine or a rigger if you don't feel like tackling braid eye splicing yourself. The block I used on my 32 footer is too small for a knot to work well but splicing an eye in 3 strand is pretty easy. This part of the topping lift is fairly short.

A length of 3 strand Dacron line which has more stretch and is less likely to chafe the sail and less visible is attached to the braid line with a sheet bend. This knot is located so that it comes up against the block a bit below the lowest you would want the boom to come. If someone accidentally lets the topping lift go or the lighter line breaks, the boom won't come all the way down in the cockpit.

The 3 strand line goes forward to a cheek block on the side of the boom just before the gooseneck. A double length of 1/8" shock cord is woven into the strands for a few inches about 4 feet back and a short length of line runs from the bight forward to the gooseneck so it can be adjusted to the optimum tension to keep the topping lift from slatting around and the portion along the boom from drooping down to catch someones neck.

The topping lift then runs from the cheekblock to a block shackled into the shackle for the lower boom vang block, then to a deck organizer and back to a cleat on the cabin top just forward of the cockpit. The boom on my 32 footer is heavy enough that I tied a larger length of braided line on with another sheet bend just aft of the deck organizer so it is easier to pull on.

Once you've gotten the topping lift to the block on the boom vang shackle, you can run it anywhere you want but having it end in the cockpit is handy because there will always be times you want to take up on it a bit to quiet it down or realize that the sheet tension going from off the wind to close hauled has pulled the boom down enough to put too much tension on it.

 

[Guest]

Topping Lift

Hi Neal, our P42 has eight sheet stoppers, four on each side. In the process of adding a cruising chute, I had to vacate one of the stoppers for the chute halyard. What I decided to do was move the working end of the topping lift from the stopper to the end of the boom, which actually works much better.

I used the starboard mast cleat to secure the now bitter end of the topping lift. Then I added two blocks at the end of the boom. The one on the boom end is a standard single becket block. The new working end of the topping lift is connected to a single becket block with integrated cam cleat. Both three inch blocks came from a local marine exchange for $30 total.

Check out the project photos in the Boat Info tab above, Hunter Owner Modifications, then 42. The title is "Topping Lift Alternative". I'm very happy with the results after three seasons of use.

Terry Cox

 

[BobM]

Roger....clarification please

Well, then it's actually pretty simple.

Replace the block on the end boom casting with one that has a becket. I used a small S.S. block for 1/4" line attached with a small screw pin shackle which can be made up int the tight space.

A similar block without a becket shackled to the end of the standing topping lift wire.

A piece of 1/4" braid which has good abrasion resistance is best for the first part of the topping lift. This requires splicing to the becket of the block but they will do this at West Marine or a rigger if you don't feel like tackling braid eye splicing yourself. The block I used on my 32 footer is too small for a knot to work well but splicing an eye in 3 strand is pretty easy. This part of the topping lift is fairly short.

A length of 3 strand Dacron line which has more stretch and is less likely to chafe the sail and less visible is attached to the braid line with a sheet bend. This knot is located so that it comes up against the block a bit below the lowest you would want the boom to come. If someone accidentally lets the topping lift go or the lighter line breaks, the boom won't come all the way down in the cockpit.

The 3 strand line goes forward to a cheek block on the side of the boom just before the gooseneck. A double length of 1/8" shock cord is woven into the strands for a few inches about 4 feet back and a short length of line runs from the bight forward to the gooseneck so it can be adjusted to the optimum tension to keep the topping lift from slatting around and the portion along the boom from drooping down to catch someones neck.

The topping lift then runs from the cheekblock to a block shackled into the shackle for the lower boom vang block, then to a deck organizer and back to a cleat on the cabin top just forward of the cockpit. The boom on my 32 footer is heavy enough that I tied a larger length of braided line on with another sheet bend just aft of the deck organizer so it is easier to pull on.

Once you've gotten the topping lift to the block on the boom vang shackle, you can run it anywhere you want but having it end in the cockpit is handy because there will always be times you want to take up on it a bit to quiet it down or realize that the sheet tension going from off the wind to close hauled has pulled the boom down enough to put too much tension on it.

Roger...one more time please...perhaps with illustrations...I can't quite grasp what you mean. I even tried to diagram it. Isn't a block with a beckett at the boom end overkill? How about a snap shackle of some sort? I am mixed on the idea of running the line aft. It would be helpful, but perhaps I am underestimating its potential uses. I can see that lifting it to belly the sail in light air would be useful, but are there other uses where it is beneficial to be able to raise the boom without centering it? For my "light air" purpose it seems like a minor inconvenience to need to do so. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Roger Long]

Roger...one more time please...perhaps with illustrations...

Your sketch is almost exactly what I was talking about. Missing is the knot ahead of the blocks at the end of the boom to stop the boom from coming down too far if the lift is accidentally released. I used this knot to have a lighter, less conspicuous, and less chafing line running along the boom.

The gap between the lift and the boom is exaggerated in your sketch.

The becket block might be overkill on a 22 foot boat but my boom is heavy enough that I'm glad of the extra mechanical advantage when I want to top it up for reefing. Over topping significantly eases getting the sail pulled out flat with the reef pendants.

You also are not showing the light shock cord that I ran from 3 - 4 feet aft of the mast to the gooseneck. This eliminates the need for fairleads along the boom to prevent a loop of topping lift from hanging dangerously down and helps keep the running part from whipping around.

 

[Roger Long]

Thanks in advance for your help.

You're welcome. Here's a picture I snapped of my boom end just before going sailing today.

There is a similar small block but without a becket shackled to the end of the topping lift wire.

The pin in the boom end casting is one of those cabin fever projects. It's a piece of 1/4" S.S. rod drilled and tapped at each end for a machine screw but could just as easily be the original clevis and cotter pin.

 

[Blitz]

What I did

Just as a follow-up, the attached picture shows the Block which was installed (A) to the current fixed topping lift wire that goes to the top of the mast (what is the technical name for this?). I know it would be cleaner if I had an eye spliced on the end of the line but for now I have a bowline (B) tied to the pin at point C. The line is led through the boom to a jam near the mast on the boom. It helps with lowering and raising the boom as was the goal here - in the future I might want to route this to the cockpit but I'll need to move the line to the starboard side of the boom internals since that is were it will need to come out to be led to the triple turning block (one is spare) that goes back to the cockpit.

 

[Roger Long]

The line is led through the boom to a jam near the mast on the boom.

Do you not have reefing lines rigged? You really should have your boat set up for easy reefing although it's sort of a lost art. It's not just to calm things down. It's amazing how much speed you sometimes pick up hard on the wind by throwing in a reef.

Those outer two boom sheaves are for the in boom reefing which can work very well. It's a subject in itself.

 

[Blitz]

Do you not have reefing lines rigged? You really should have your boat set up for easy reefing although it's sort of a lost art. It's not just to calm things down. It's amazing how much speed you sometimes pick up hard on the wind by throwing in a reef.

Those outer two boom sheaves are for the in boom reefing which can work very well. It's a subject in itself.

Maybe it's always been rigged wrong - don't know or know if it matters. The starboard sheave has always been for the Topping Lift. The Port side sheave is for the reefing. (we always had only one reefing point on Blitz) The center sheave (below the pin) is for the sail foot tension.

 

[Roger Long]

Maybe it's always been rigged wrong

No, I see the reef pendant now. If you only have one set of reef points, that's a fine way to rig it.

 

[BobM]

Question still hanging...

I can see that lifting it to belly the sail in light air would be useful, but are there other uses where it is beneficial to be able to raise the boom without centering it?

For my "light air" purpose it seems like a minor inconvenience to need to do so. Thanks in advance for your help.

Could I get some additional assistance understanding this?

 

[Roger Long]

Could I get some additional assistance understanding this?

I've never bothered raising my boom in light air but I generally motor then anyway.

The primary reason for raising the boom above it's normal position is when reefing. Over topping the boom makes it easier to get the pendant pulled fully tight and the sail flattened which can be as important as reducing the area. The last thing you want to be doing in conditions where you need to reef is frigging around with something at the end of the boom.

In Maine waters, you may often need to put in a quick reef in confined waters and need to be able to do it quickly.

I don't have to adjust my topping lift as often as I used to since I added the shock cord to keep it from slapping around. In some sea conditions, and often when reefed, it helps to take up on it a bit just to quiet it down although this doesn't put any force on the boom. These are also conditions when I wouldn't want to be reaching up to something at the boom end.

 

[tsmwebb]

Could I get some additional assistance understanding this?

In very light airs the weight of the boom alone can tension the leach and close off the top of the mainsail. It is common to need extra twist in very light wind because the wind sheer and gradient can be more pronounced. The topper can be used to open the leach up. You aren't adding appreciable belly to the sail (indeed, in very light winds you need a fairly flat sail), just twist. I've attached a sketch.

But, I haven't grokked the method of doing that at a decent size so you'll have to click on it to see it. Sorry... Any hints on how to do this correctly?

More typically, it can be nice to have the topper on when reefing or when shaking out a reef or dropping the sail. In those cases the boom isn't usually centered or may be jumping about too much to safely work at its after end.

--Tom.

 

[BobM]

Thanks guys...

So the prime consideration is to facilitate be able to easily taking in a reef. That makes sense. If I can take the tension off the sail with the lift than it will be easier to in general to reef.

Since I have to do something now, I think I will mark my main halyard (perhaps just with a sharpie) where the first and second reef points are and rely on my lazy jacks to hold the boom up during reefing until I can figure something more permanent out.

Bob