too much heel on a reach

[yodaboda]

I'm a newb to the cruiser world. Just got a Hunter 23 with a wing keel. I'm having trouble when I go from close haul to a beam reach, winds about 10 - 15 mph. When I come off of a close haul and try to come to a beam reach, my boat just feels like it's about to roll over. I'll let out the main and jib, until I can gain some control. But, when I try to sheet in, she just heels over really fast. Enough to make me feel uncomfortable, so I let the sails out and go back upwind. I'm guessing that the boat is not up to speed, and all that wind is hitting the sails and heeling the boat. I'm comfortable sailing up wind, but trying to go down wind just ain't happening, yet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I can only stand about 20-25 degrees of heel before I get nervous, Am I just a scared wimp or is this about right?

Thanks - and be nice

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Everyone has a different level of comfort and if, as I infer, you are relatively new to sailing, 25 degrees could easily do it. Until you get more used to sailing, why not try sailing on just the jib or preferably the main only. You may lose some pointing ability and obviously some speed but most of us sail to enjoy it rather than get anyplace fast.
You probably know that most boats will actually lose speed as heel increases beyond 20-25 degrees.
Regarding heeling excessively in 10-15 knots, if your sails are old or blown out, that condtion can significantly increase heel.

 

[caguy]

I think we've all been through it.

I started out on Hobie cats where a slight gust at the wrong time or too slow a reaction and over you go. When I started on the monohaul I was conditioned to panic at 25*. Even after broaching a few times and coming up ok and cognitively knowing that the boat won't sink and will always right itself, I was still nervous. I did manage to self impose some cognitive therapy and extinguish the panic reaction by holding the boat at 20* until I was relaxed. I was then able to take it to 25 with even less panic. Now the only discomfort felt at 30* is knowing that I have to pick everything off the cabin floor when I'm done.
I still am not comfortable at running parallel to a swell on a broad reach in wind over 10 mph. I worry about being rolled, so somedays I take the longer road home. Chicken or prudent?
Frank
Frank

 

[Benny]

Don't overreact. I have a feeling that what you describe as close hauled is actually pinching and as you move to a reach you pass the close hauled point of sail increasing heel and weather helm. If you overreact and release the sheets you slow the boat down and then you try and regain speed by bringing in the sheet which causes more heel and unbalance. First convince yourself that you are on a fixed keel boat and a wind of 10 to 15 knots will not knock it down no matter what mistakes you may make. As you go to a reach and the boat starts heeling and the helm tightens up just hold fast and wait until the boat settles down and then trim the sails for wind speed and direction. If after a while on the reach point of sail the boat is still heeling to much or you continue to fight the helm then it is time to reef the main. The boat will sit up, regain balance with hardly any loss of speed. The way to get to know your boat is to practice and experiment out there with points of sail and trim. Gradually increase your tolerance for foul weather and that will give you the necessary confidence to handle your boat in adverse conditions. Remeber offshore survival is 20% boat and 80% captain.

 

[Brian M H23]

Are you and passengers sitting on the high side? Thats makes a big difference on the 23. Also - perhaps you're sheeting in too far?

do you have a traveler? One trick that works from a beam reach up to close hauled, is to bring the traveler way up high, and sheet out accordingly. the top of the sail will twist off, and the heel will be reduced.

Regardless, remember 30% of your displacement is the keel. The 23 is a well designed boat, and it would be very, very hard to get into much trouble unless you had big waves.

 

[yodaboda]

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one that's been through this. It's hard to tell myself that I'll be OK and the boat won't roll over. Especially when that gust hits. Benny, your assessment was dead on. I think I am going from a pinch to a beam, followed by panic. When I let the sails out, I put the brakes on the boat. Then when I try to get going again, she just heels over. This weekend, I'll try to follow all the advice, tell me if this sounds correct: Reef the main (I think this will help out a lot). Sit on the high side, move the traveler out, get up to speed then slowly move to a reach, Don't panic when she heels and let her settle down. then enjoy the ride. I can do it! Does this sound correct? The wind is expected to be up 10-20, and it does gust. I'll just take it easy and work my way up. Oh, how about the cunningham? or the jib? should I try to keep the sails flat or have some shape?
Thanks for the advice. If anyone else would like to add to it, please do.

Thanks again,

 

[Alan]

yodaboda

You need to learn about sail trim. I HIGHLY recommend Don Guillette's book 'Sail Trim' available in the 'Parts/ Books & Reference' on this site. He also conducts a forum on this site under the Expert Forums heading.
If your boat has a vang(if not you NEED one) this is the time to use it and go to "vang sheeting". Use your main sheet to control angle of attack. As the main sheet is eased without using the vang the main develops a very large curve which powers up the sail and can over-power the boat. Keeping the sail flat is the secret to de-powering.
While beating pull the vang on full before bearing off to a reach and easing the mainsheet out at the same time. This will prevent the main from over-powering and keep the heel to a minimum. Read your mainsail telltales for proper trim control.
Don't worry about dumping the boat, it's not going to happen. We've all been through this learning curve and survived. After you master these controls you will feel more secure and confident.

 

[yodaboda]

good advice

Thanks for the pointers. I just ordered the book and chart. The way everyone talks so good about it, I just have to read it. BTW, I don't have a vang, only the cunningham. The vang is one of the items on my list of things I need for the boat. Everyone has told me not to worry about dumping the boat, someone even told me that I should try to wash the windows on the side. I think, eventually I'll get there.

thank you!

 

[Louis]

This was my first year sailing and with a H23 also.

I know what you mean.. what is too much heeling? My solution was to invite a friend who is experienced to go out with me on my boat. I gritted my teeth and asked him to show me how far the boat can heel. He did! We went waaay over, and In the process showed me how the boat will eventually right itself when the rudder breaks free. It was a real revelation! Realizing that we were not going to go head-over-heels made the world of difference. Unfortunately, it was the last sail of the season for me, but I am prepared for next year.

 

[Don Guillette]

Thanks for the Plug

Alan; Thanks for the plug. I got a bunch of orders yesterday and I was wondering where they came from when I noticed they were ALL Hunter owners so I popped over to the Hunter owners site and there it was.

A couple of weeks ago I posted an article on the SAIL TRIM FORUM regarding Hunter owners. I was commenting that I have sold sail trim material to owners of every boat manufactured even homemade and cement boats but the biggest group of buyers by far were Hunter owners. I've never meet a group of sailors that is more interested in getting the most out of their boats than you guys.

 

[Alan]

Plugs

Your Sail Trim manual is a tiny financial investment ($20) that all skippers could benefit from. Using your manual and playing with sail controls is a great way to learn how to sail.

Many skippers don't understand what they don't understand and your manual explains it in simple terms that anyone who can read can learn. I'm a fan and tell everyone I can about it.

 

[newly anonymous]

a vang should NOT be considered optional equipment

the lack of one is probably 90% of your problem. Get one, and you'll find that you heal less when reaching than when close hauled.