Too many options

[Manny]

Hi All,I need to replace the jib sheet and the main sheet on the old girl. The jib sheet is 67' of 1/2" line and the main is 51' of 3/8" line. Anyway, while checking a few sites on prices for line, there are too many options and price differences (from about $0.89/ft to about $3.50/ft). I'm river sailing currently and no racing is in the future and I wont venture out in high winds. I don't know what I should get but I know I have a very limited budget. Can anyone point me in the right direction?If it helps, the boat displaces something in the 7000 pound range. I'm not sure the size of the jib since I haven't measured it but it is probably close to a 135% if not a 150%.Manny

 

[Fred]

The bottom line (pun intended) is

to get a dacron or polyester line, not nylon or polypropelene. Nylon is good line but it stretches like a rubber band. Polypropelene doesn't stretch but it gets brittle in the sunshine and it's not very strong.Dacron is a brand name for one brand of polyester line. The next cut (sorry, I can't help it) is whether to use three strand, or braided cover over a core,(braided line). Three strand is less expensive. It will last a long time, but not as long as the braided line. Tape the line before you cut it, cut in the middle of the tape, and melt the end with a lighter or propane torch (outside) before you take the tape off.If you can get a better deal by buying more line, consider half inch for both main and jib. You will probably never notice the difference, or if you do you'll like it better. Bigger line is easier to pull by hand. Line is like wine. You can spend almost any amount of money on it, and you get better line the more you spend, but you can get by just fine with the working class product.

 

[CharlieH]

Easy one.

Phil has line for your needs.http://shop.trailersailor.com/cordage/cordage.htm?fno=300&cart=1169039103880808This link should get ya started. Bit of info and ya can follow it around.CharlieH

 

[sailortonyb]

Bouble braided polyester

Double braided polyester is the standard rope for halyards and sheets. You can get away with the least expensive grade/brand, but you should use what the standard of the industry uses for various reasons. When on any boat, whether power or sail, you and your guests are at somewhat of a risk, not to mention your vessel. There should not be any cheap fixes.

 

[Bill]

ebay

You can get quality stuff on ebay-- no need to pay prices like what the chandlery on this site, or wm, or layline will charge you. You can save 40-50% off retail. B

 

[Maine Sail]

Try Cajun Trading Company!

This should narrow your options. I've purchased a lot from this guy over the years. He is great to deal with, has excellent quality products and he also splices etc.. He's in Canada but I've had no problems with delivery times at all. Ask around a lot of folks use Cajun Trading. If you don't get a hold of him just leave a message (small time operation hence good prices due to low overhead) and he will call you back. Here's the link!http://www.cajuntrading.ca/

 

[tom]

Cheaper Than Dirt

Cheaperthandirt.com has climbing rope that feels good on your hands that should work. They sell less than standard lengths as a standard lenght is 120' I bought one of about 90' for about 50 cents/foot. I use it for climbing. But it should be easy on your hands and plenty strong enough. It is a little springy but that might help in gusty conditions. But considering that a sheet can easily last a long time you might want to buy the real thing.

 

[Ross]

Manny, Shop line price by brand name

Not all polyester double braids are created equal. The only part of what Fred told you that I take issue with is his "Butane Back Splice". You should learn and apply sewn on whipping.

 

[Phil Herring]

Spring is something you don't want

The best rigging doesn't stretch. Otherwise, you have to keep trimming to keep your shape.Whever you buy, look for New England or Samson brands. You can't go wrong with them.

 

[bo]

too big too little

Your jib sheet is a little beefy at 1/2in. Your main sheet is a smidgin undersized at 3/8in. I would go with 7/16in Samson Xls for both, they sell it here.

 

[Fred]

I used climbing rope for jib sheets a few years .

ago. It was beautiful stuff. Yellow with a blue stripe. It was almost new but I got it free from a search and rescue friend after it saved somebodys life in a fall. It did stretch a bit in a breeze. When you're trying to clear a rock to windward and it's blowing 40 (knots, not km) that little bit of stretch begins to outweigh the styish appearance. Halyards would have the same problem, but maybe worse. Sail shape would go to hell just when you need it most. I would prefer three strand polyester to braided climbing rope. A lot of us used three strand for years before the braid was cheap enough for the average sailor. It's good for ten years in this climate. Ross, I agree that it's better to whip the ends of your lines, but I would still melt them. Whippings can come loose or wear when the end thrashes around. It's easier to to a good job on the whipping if the end is melted so it doesn't come apart while you work. Shrink tube is an interesting option to finish the end of lines. Comes in colours, too. I enjoy the traditional approach when somebody else does the work.

 

[Bill]

seriously...

You are talking about $73 worth of line here-- you're going to give up performance and peace of mind over $20? You guys are nuts. Use the right stuff. B

 

[tom]

Almost Any Rope will work

The main things are that it's easy on your hands works in the winches. A rope that is large enough to be easy on the hands should have enough strength. The original post was about sheets!!!!! I agree that climbing rope is too stretchy for halyards. Sailboatowners has very reasonably priced lines. But if someone is worried about saving $30-$40 and the exisiting sheets are getting ragged climbing rope is OK. Heck even the braided stuff from Lowes hardware will work. A 27' boat's sheets shouldn't be under that much strain. I also agree that for a few dollars more you can get the "right" line.

 

[Scott]

Manny, don't be a ...

Schlemiel! Support your forum! You're already here ... just click on Chandlery and then click on running rigging.You can get your Sampson xls cordage in 3/8" or 7/16", have the ends whipped and include the shackle (do your halyards need replacement too?) ... you won't be sorry!

 

[Ross]

Concerning the durability of sewn on whipping

At the moment I am running an endurance test of a sewn on whipping and a simple constrictor knot on a piece of 1/4 inch solid braid nylon. I set the rope in the drill press so that while it is running the ends of the rope impact the corner of a 2X4 block. The drill spindle is turning at 520 rpm and we have just passed the thirty minute mark and you can just start to see a bit of wear in the binding turns on the sewn whipping. The constrictor knot just happened to exist so I included it. By this time we have whacked the end of the rope about 15000 times against the corner of the wood.Edit to add: have just passed the one hour mark with no changes in appearance.Edit No. Two Stopped the test at 90 minutes. There is some wear on the rope above the whipping but after about 47000 impacts the whipping is not on the verge of failure.

 

[Rick]

BIG difference

There is a BIG difference in braided rope from Lowes and marine line such as New England Sta-Set X.Under a load, the hardware store braided rope will stretch like a rubber band. We replaced our halyards this season with New England Sta-Set X Plus from Milwaukee Rigging (Ebay). Dave is a very knowledgeable source. Unless you go high, high tech, the difference in cost between line for your boat will not be significant.

 

[Mike]

What about ebay?

There are some really good deals on there, you check it out? This guy offered great deals, combines shipping, and if your on a budget, doesn't look that bad.

 

[Manny]

I think I opened up a can of worms

I never considered using line not intended for rigging. Also safety is a BIG concern for me. I'm really just trying to figure out if it is necessary to spend a fortune on what I guess is high tech line, or can I use the stuff on the lower end of the scale. Spending $3.00/ft + is going to eat up the budget I have for other repairs needed. I'd like to upgrade to thicker line for the main sheet but I have no traveler per say. It's a bunch of blocks that the line runs through and there is a cam cleat with a fairlead? that limits the size of the line. My halyards look like they are in good shape. The main sheet probably has a couple of seasons left but it looks old and dirty, even after washing. The jib sheet took a beating this year where the knot is on the Jib. The cover has been worn through. I think I may sew a leather sleeve at the knot to protect the line once I replace it.Thanks to all,Manny

 

[Joe]

Line size....

1/2 inch sheets on a 27 foot boat??? That's way too much! I run 3/8 inch Yale Yacht Braid on my Cat 27 for genoa sheets. You can also use Samson LST (not XLS) or New England Sta-Set (not Sta-Set X) for your sheets. Specs are similar for these three so they are perfect for your non-racing intended use. You can buy any of these products on line at a considerable discount. Try this link:http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|118|311417&id=314169&start=1&results=10&sort=productsIt's easy to estimate your sheet length by measuring from the clew's deck position around the shrouds and mast then back to the winch, plus an extra 6 feet. If you order the sheets to length they will be cut with the hot knife so all you have to do is whip the ends (highly recommended) and you're good to go. To measure your mainsheet, extend the boom out to the shrouds, measure the distance to the traveller and multiply times the number of purchase loops, 4 or 5 I'm guessing, and add another 6 feet or so... I rigged a new mainsheet this year, down sized to 5/16 with a little higher quality line- Samson XLS- because the old 3/8 inch Samson Trophy Braid (the fuzzy stuff) didn't run through the blocks as freely as I wanted.

 

[Joe]

Manny......

..you don't have to spend $3.00 a foot for anything. Especially on a 27 foot boat. None of the products I mentioned in my previous post cost more that 66 cents a foot at defender.com You can find it even cheaper if you look. If you want to hold the rope in your hand or fit it in a cleat or block before you buy it then go down to your closest marine supply store and check it out. As I stated before, 3/8 inch of the common "club level" cordage is plenty strong for your boat. If you replaced your 51 foot mainsheet with 3/8 inch Samson LST from Defender at .66 per foot it would cost about 33 bucks. If you chose Samson LS it would be even less. Both of these rope choices are more than adequate for your boat's needs.Regarding sheets.... You can use the "fuzzy" Samson Trophy Braid, 3/8", quite safely. The fuzzy stuff feels great in your hands and gives extra grip on the winch drum. If you like the smoother stuff then get the aforementioned Samson LS or LST. I prefer solid colors because they don't show dirt as much as the white.Finally, it sounds like you currently have one long rope doubled up and knotted through the clew for your jib sheets. This may be okay for smaller boats and smaller diameter lines, but I want to discourage you from doing this on your boat, even if you have roller furling. Why? Because you can't easily remove the sheets from the sail. And if remove the sheets from the sail and store them inside the boat when not in use they will last a long long time. In addition you will be alternating ends and sides whenever you put them back up and that means less wear and tear at the knot end and at the cleat end. There will be minimal weather damage and they will stay cleaner. Use a bowline to connect the sheets to the clew of your head sail. If you don't know how to tie a bowline knot.... I highly recommend you learn. It is the single most important knot in the sailor's inventory of knots.http://www.animatedknots.com/